Question for TE's that believe in a literal Adam/Garden

Remus · Sep 21, 2005

I have a few ideas of what the answer to this question might be, but Im interested in hearing other opinions about it.

Did Adam sin prior to eating of the tree of knowledge or whatever event you believe is symbolized by this?

servantx · Sep 22, 2005

God told Adam, if he eat that fruit, he will surely die.

Adam sinned as he disobeyed God's command. Disobedience is the major sin.

When one gained the knowledge of Good and Evil, one knows what is evil, hence be tempted by evil and sin. And sin causes death. That's why God said not to eat it.

shernren · Sep 22, 2005

I would believe that Adam was created sinless. Whether or not he would have ultimately experienced "physical death" (for lack of a better term) is up for grabs. But he would always have a perfect relationship with God.

Granted, of course, that I am trying to talk about life in a hypothetical universe which we do not now inhabit.

Remus · Sep 22, 2005

I'm not sure how this answers the question. Perhaps I should have qualified my question more. I've heard some state that they believe Adam evolved into a human and then God took him and placed him in the garden. Assuming that Adam was an adult or close to it, what about the time prior to being placed in the garden. Basically, did Adam sin during his life before the garden?

LewisWildermuth · Sep 22, 2005

Remus said:
I'm not sure how this answers the question. Perhaps I should have qualified my question more. I've heard some state that they believe Adam evolved into a human and then God took him and placed him in the garden. Assuming that Adam was an adult or close to it, what about the time prior to being placed in the garden. Basically, did Adam sin during his life before the garden?

Well, without a written account from Adam himself, how are we to know? Anything said would just be a guess.

Remus · Sep 22, 2005

You don't have an opinion either way?

LewisWildermuth · Sep 22, 2005

Remus said:
You don't have an opinion either way?

There is not enough writings on Adam for me to form an opinion on his life and what sins that he may or may not have committed other than the ones mentioned in the Bible. There seems to be nothing doctrinally important about Adam for much of his life, only a few events are mentioned in the Bible, therefore since I am not that curious about his life outside the few events written about in the Bible I have not studied the issue and do not hold an informed opinion about it.

Remus · Sep 22, 2005

Fair enough.

CaptainMercy · Oct 1, 2005

LewisWildermuth said:
Well, without a written account from Adam himself, how are we to know? Anything said would just be a guess.

That is an evolutionist statement for sure. You err in this matter. The bible clearly states that their eyes were opened upon Adam's partaking of the forbidden fruit and then they knew they were naked. Any thought of Adam having a growing up life before he was placed in the garden is not supported in scripture. Where was Adam created? Was he in the garden when God created him or was he somewhere else? Who knows? And who cares? The biblical account is undeniably God's word to us. We are instructed to avoid such vain babblings and foolish geneologies.

LewisWildermuth · Oct 2, 2005

blessedvalley said:
That is an evolutionist statement for sure. You err in this matter. The bible clearly states that their eyes were opened upon Adam's partaking of the forbidden fruit and then they knew they were naked. Any thought of Adam having a growing up life before he was placed in the garden is not supported in scripture. Where was Adam created? Was he in the garden when God created him or was he somewhere else? Who knows? And who cares? The biblical account is undeniably God's word to us. We are instructed to avoid such vain babblings and foolish geneologies.

Well, ofcourse it was a statement from one who accepts evolution... That's what was asked for in the OP...

shernren · Oct 2, 2005

We are instructed to avoid such vain babblings and foolish geneologies.

Oh, you must mean the ones the creationists use to determine the age of the earth? hehe.

To Remus: I would say that only a human can sin, right? To sin is to break God's commands, and the only plausible command that could stick to animals and to plants is to populate the earth. Anything evolving would obey that by default. So if Adam was biologically and physically derived from some ancestor that ancestor would not have been able to sin, by definition, not having any commands to be broken. God commands humans, not animals.

Remus · Oct 3, 2005

shernren said:
To Remus: I would say that only a human can sin, right? To sin is to break God's commands, and the only plausible command that could stick to animals and to plants is to populate the earth. Anything evolving would obey that by default. So if Adam was biologically and physically derived from some ancestor that ancestor would not have been able to sin, by definition, not having any commands to be broken. God commands humans, not animals.

But we're not talking about animals or any ancestor of Adam. We're talking about Adam himself and the time between his birth and him being placed into the garden. Did Adam sin during this time?

shernren · Oct 3, 2005

As I believe it, he was not human before he was made human by God. Only a human can sin. God had no moral relationship with Adam before making him a human and therefore Adam could not have sinned before he was made a human. Why?

Numenor · Oct 4, 2005

Remus said:
But we're not talking about animals or any ancestor of Adam. We're talking about Adam himself and the time between his birth and him being placed into the garden. Did Adam sin during this time?

The first documented instance of Adam breaking a command he had been given was when he ate the fruit. Interestingly we aren't told what sanctions would be imposed on Adam if he didn't follow the other commands he was given.

Perhaps you are asking whether Adam had the capacity to sin prior to being placed in the Garden? Or before being endowed with the image of God?

Remus · Oct 4, 2005

shernren said:
As I believe it, he was not human before he was made human by God. Only a human can sin. God had no moral relationship with Adam before making him a human and therefore Adam could not have sinned before he was made a human. Why?

I'm curious as to how the issues of this concept are worked out.

Numenor said:
The first documented instance of Adam breaking a command he had been given was when he ate the fruit. Interestingly we aren't told what sanctions would be imposed on Adam if he didn't follow the other commands he was given.

Perhaps you are asking whether Adam had the capacity to sin prior to being placed in the Garden? Or before being endowed with the image of God?

It seems that you both have a similar answer. I would like to ask about after the fall now. After Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden, would their children have been able to mate with the other people (using the term loosely) that were around at the time?

billwald · Oct 4, 2005

Genetic evidence indicates that the entire human race came from one man and woman. If there was a Garden, Adam probably sinned in order to break out of it. Eden sounds like Hell to me. Eternity pruning fruit trees.

shernren · Oct 4, 2005

I'm curious as to how the issues of this concept are worked out.

I'm also curious, but for me this is one of those "it's likely we don't know enough" issues.

It seems that you both have a similar answer. I would like to ask about after the fall now. After Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden, would their children have been able to mate with the other people (using the term loosely) that were around at the time?

I hope you're not expecting a "Biblical" answer I've never thought about this question before but IMHO there would be at least a psychological separation in that humans would find it more fulfilling psychologically to mate other humans rather than dumb half-apes.

Phospho · Oct 22, 2005

Did Adam sin prior to eating of the tree of knowledge or whatever event you believe is symbolized by this?

Adam could not have sinned before God gave Him a command to follow.
The only command God gave him was to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil...a title that was symbolic, of course. No matter what fruit was on the tree, it was the only tree out of many that he was told not to eat from.

It is impossible for one to sin against God if He never told you to do something and you disobeyed...hint, sin is disobedience to God, nothing more, nothing less.

Blessings!

Treasurer · Nov 1, 2005

Are you perhaps suggesting that temptation is sin?

Only the actual act of disobedience is a sin. So no, not prior to consumption.

CaiperLane · Nov 7, 2005

Remus said:
I'm not sure how this answers the question. Perhaps I should have qualified my question more. I've heard some state that they believe Adam evolved into a human and then God took him and placed him in the garden. Assuming that Adam was an adult or close to it, what about the time prior to being placed in the garden. Basically, did Adam sin during his life before the garden?

Adam had no life before the Garden. Genesis is clear about this.

He was created sinless but he was given free will. He chose to use that free will by disobeying God.

The Genesis account of the creation of Adam reads this way:

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)-Genesis 2:7

No evolving from ape ancestors, no gradual changes. God created man from the dust of the earth.

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. (KJV) - Genesis 2:8

From dust to man to garden.

Question for TE's that believe in a literal Adam/Garden

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