Question concerning Rachel's theft

t1wGl said:

Why did Rachel steal her father's gods?

Then hide them from him and from Jacob?


Did she do it out of spite?

Did she want to secretly worship them?

Was she stealing them for the gold?

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I want you to know that this is a very good question. It bothers me that know one has answer this for you.

I'll be back to answer this for you, but none of your question are correct.
It is more of a "right".
I wish more people like you would ask questions like this.

Love censor

t1wGl said:

Why did Rachel steal her father's gods?

Then hide them from him and from Jacob?


Did she do it out of spite?

Did she want to secretly worship them?

Was she stealing them for the gold?

Click to expand...

I am really disappointed that No one hear has answered your question. 25 look at your question and walked away.
I have seen many here try to act so smart with their cleaver use of words.
Here you ask a great question and you should be given an answer.

Rachel was the pretty one of the two wifes. Jacob work twice has hard for Rachel then Her sister.

Rachel did not have as many children as her sister and felt some what like a failure.

The god that Rachel took was the property of her father that proves that she was of that tribe. It was a sign of her birth right, showing who she belong too.

The fight between Jacob and his father in law was very hot because Jacob dislike what his father in law had done to him.
When Jacob found out what Rachel had done he placed it in the ground.

Rachel was punished by death, but her children where blessed.

So in the end Rachel did not take the object for spite, or gold or for worship. It was really for a birth right.

Love Censor

cCensor said:

I am really disappointed that No one hear has answered your question. 25 look at your question and walked away.
I have seen many here try to act so smart with their cleaver use of words.
Here you ask a great question and you should be given an answer.

Click to expand...

Maybe nobody knew the answer.
Grace and Mercy CC.
I personally didnt look at the thread,
but only because after hovering over it
and seeing the gist of it, figured it
would be answered quickly.
Either way, it will be moved to the
proper folder.

Rachel was the pretty one of the two wifes. Jacob work twice has hard for Rachel then Her sister.

Rachel did not have as many children as her sister and felt some what like a failure.

The god that Rachel took was the property of her father that proves that she was of that tribe. It was a sign of her birth right, showing who she belong too.

The fight between Jacob and his father in law was very hot because Jacob dislike what his father in law had done to him.
When Jacob found out what Rachel had done he placed it in the ground.

Rachel was punished by death, but her children where blessed.

So in the end Rachel did not take the object for spite, or gold or for worship. It was really for a birth right.

Love Censor

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Sad story.
Although I dont remember this part of it,
I am often amazed at these women we
read about in the Bible.
That poor Leah, having to live with the
knowledge that her hubby didnt want her,
But God is so good, He's a husband to
the rejected wives.

sunlover1 said:

[/size]
Maybe nobody knew the answer.
Grace and Mercy CC.
I personally didnt look at the thread,
but only because after hovering over it
and seeing the gist of it, figured it
would be answered quickly.
Either way, it will be moved to the
proper folder.


Sad story.
Although I dont remember this part of it,
I am often amazed at these women we
read about in the Bible.
That poor Leah, having to live with the
knowledge that her hubby didnt want her,
But God is so good, He's a husband to
the rejected wives.

Click to expand...

It is with no great surprise that of all those learned people of this CF, comes the heart of hearts to share her feeling.
Tell me young lady why we have such heated post on things that can not be answered on this side of heaven, but what is truly a since of love is skipped over.

I am a simple man who gets yelled at for taking a stand on some of these post, but it is always in love.

This story we read in the Old testament is as important as raising the dead in the New testament.
Jacobs father in law used him. Rachel used Jacob, but Leah, just did what was asked of her. She was not loved or respect by any one, and hated by her sister.

Jacobs love for Rachel shown all though the story, but Leah worked so hard for so long and had nothing, but scorn.

You need to read more of what took place in the Old testament to understand the New.
There is so much to be learned of God's heart poured out on the pages with the story's of His people.
ie Number 12 where Moses brother and sister try to take over and God steps in. What went through the hearts of all those there, and what God said.


In Love.....Censor

t1wGl said:

This sounds very interesting and a logical answer because they were concerned about their inheritance when Jacob was speaking of leaving.

There are a couple of things I would appreciate if you clarify for me here.

1. It does not say in Scripture (that I am aware of) that Jacob ever found out and buried the idols in the ground. Could you please reference that in Scripture.

2. Also I am not aware anywhere in Scripture where it says that Rachel was punished by death in child birth. I know that is presumed by many, but I am not aware of any Scripture that actually says that is the case.

Again thank you for your answer. It makes alot of sense and fits nicely with the context. Even though Scripture does not automatically give the reason Rachel stole the idols, your explanation makes sense considering that their inheritance is the concern voiced by both her and Leah.

That explains it well.

Thank you.

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If you look a couple of chapter a head you will see in 35:1-4 that Jacob calls for all images of god to be brought to him and there he hid them under an oak tree.

As for punishment of Rachel, this is just my opinion. Rachel has a self that showed little regard for others.

I believe that God wanted to protect Rachel's sons from how she saw life. I could be wrong, but Joseph ended up saving the whole family by allowing God to raise him away from is land.
Joseph's young years had a little of his mother in him, but when he got sold in Egypt; God took over and he grew up to be a man who's focus was on God and not himself.

With Love Censor

t1wGl said:

Thank you censor...you are real blessing! I think your ideas are excellent and very applicable and practical. You must be a pastor, Bible professor or evangelist....If not I think you might have missed your calling.

Many Blessings!

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Well thank you for the nice things you said.
You don't know how much I weep for many on this CF because they are fooled by those with words that sound good.
I truly love Gods word and have worn out my bible over 35 years.
If you ever want to know God, take a book and read it though once a day for 30 days. If it is a large book brake it in to 1/3 or 1/2.
Read with this in mind.
Who is speaking
Whom are they speaking too.
What is the question
Where are they.
Why was the question asked.
When was the question asked.

This all to help you understand what is going on and not just read the words.

Nothing please God more then reading of His word. Rom. 10:17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Oh that people really knew what this verse means.

With all my Love.
Censor

cCensor said:

It is with no great surprise that of all those learned people of this CF, comes the heart of hearts to share her feeling.
Tell me young lady why we have such heated post on things that can not be answered on this side of heaven, but what is truly a since of love is skipped over.

Click to expand...

Most ppl who post in theology skip over the Bible study
threads, when I want to do Bible study, I go to that
folder. That's probably the reason. Although there are
disagreements in that folder as well.
I would guess there are heated posts because of pride.
People come here to teach rather than to learn.
(That's my guess)
1 My brethren, be not many masters,
knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnationa.
2 For in many things we offend all.
If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man,
and able also to bridle the whole body.

t1wGl said:

This sounds very interesting and a logical answer because they were concerned about their inheritance when Jacob was speaking of leaving.

There are a couple of things I would appreciate if you clarify for me here.

Click to expand...

I thought this was an interesting interpretation as well.
Blessings,
sunlover

cCensor said:

Nothing please God more then reading of His word. Rom. 10:17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Oh that people really knew what this verse means.

With all my Love.
Censor

Click to expand...

Yes, and the preaching of His Word.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written,
How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace,
and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our reporta?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Praise God!
sunlover

sunlover1 said:

Most ppl who post in theology skip over the Bible study
threads, when I want to do Bible study, I go to that
folder. That's probably the reason. Although there are
disagreements in that folder as well.
I would guess there are heated posts because of pride.
People come here to teach rather than to learn.
(That's my guess)
1 My brethren, be not many masters,
knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnationa.
2 For in many things we offend all.
If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man,
and able also to bridle the whole body.







I thought this was an interesting interpretation as well.
Blessings,
sunlover


Yes, and the preaching of His Word.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written,
How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace,
and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our reporta?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Praise God!
sunlover

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I really care about you Sunlover because of your very special heart.
You are right that to many come here to show how smart they are. I know their hearts too.
Now allow me to ask you about 10:17?

I wonder why you and only you keep returning here. It is your heart. Careful; I say this only in love.

Faith comes by hearing
and hearing by the word of God.

In love Censor

cCensor said:

I really care about you Sunlover because of your very special heart.
You are right that to many come here to show how smart they are. I know their hearts too.
Now allow me to ask you about 10:17?

I wonder why you and only you keep returning here. It is your heart. Careful; I say this only in love.

Faith comes by hearing
and hearing by the word of God.

In love Censor

Click to expand...

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking me "cc" but
I realise that in context that passage is speaking of
the fact that those who are lost need to hear the gospel.
For me, that passage has other implications as well.
FAith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word (Rhema) of God.
Example.
For ME anyhow... If I know that God has spoken to my heart,
has ordained a mission for me etc. Then I have GREAT faith
as I set out to accomplish that particular mission... I know
that he'll provide the means, and the protection etc. to get
the job done.
If I undertake a project that I've decided to do without hearing
from God, I cannot claim any faith that God will indeed provide
for the success of that particular undertaking.

Another example that happened to me recently.
I was deathly scared of storms, and for some reason
didnt think God would protect me from the destruction.
But after hearing (on a CD) passages that say just
that (How He does indeed protect me) I can remember
those things and increase my faith.

God's Word is deep. He is the Great "I AM"
He IS that He IS, will BE what He will BE,..
and imo, He "am" our provider, He 'am' our
protector, He "am" our wife/husband/father/..

I know life is a struggle, but Praise God, He IS !

God bless you,
sunlover

sunlover1 said:

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking me "cc" but
I realise that in context that passage is speaking of
the fact that those who are lost need to hear the gospel.
For me, that passage has other implications as well.
FAith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word (Rhema) of God.
Example.
For ME anyhow... If I know that God has spoken to my heart,
has ordained a mission for me etc. Then I have GREAT faith
as I set out to accomplish that particular mission... I know
that he'll provide the means, and the protection etc. to get
the job done.
If I undertake a project that I've decided to do without hearing
from God, I cannot claim any faith that God will indeed provide
for the success of that particular undertaking.

Another example that happened to me recently.
I was deathly scared of storms, and for some reason
didnt think God would protect me from the destruction.
But after hearing (on a CD) passages that say just
that (How He does indeed protect me) I can remember
those things and increase my faith.

God's Word is deep. He is the Great "I AM"
He IS that He IS, will BE what He will BE,..
and imo, He "am" our provider, He 'am' our
protector, He "am" our wife/husband/father/..

I know life is a struggle, but Praise God, He IS !

God bless you,
sunlover

Click to expand...

You are a very gracious person and your heart is full of God's word.
I would love you to hear with your heart on this verse.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
What I see in this verse is most people just don't get the message because they read over verses with their head and not their hearts.
Please hear me.
Your faith comes by hearing, But your ability to hear God's word comes from hearing.
I will say this again. Your ability to understand comes by hearing over and over again God's word.

Again: The more you hear God's word the more His Spirit of truth plants His word in your heart. You then begin to truly Hear the Heart beats of God.

With all that comes your faith. You grow closer and closer and deeper and deeper as the Words Of God is driven deeper in your heart.

Reading over the verse. Faith comes by hearing and hear by the word of God.

Do you see? Think!

Love Censor

This would probably fit better in Christian Scriptures than General Theology.

Moving on over.

Hi all , Hey sunlover , Censer, and T1wGI

I was waiting to for some one like Censer to answer ,
I have been very busy outside today and just saw this post lol
Hope you are not reffering to us Censer ?
that would be a shame ,
I have not read that passage for a long while now , and glad to hear about it again , I asked the same question when i read it years ago ! lol

here is more info , seems ol censer is right ,

God bless C
American Standard Version
Now Rachel had taken the teraphim, and put them in the camel's saddle, and sat upon them. And Laban felt about all the tent, but found them not.


(Household idols)

Used by Laban, stolen by Rachael (equivalent to a deed to all

of Laban's property, according to the Nuzi tablets) Gen 31:19,30-35


Teraphim
givers of prosperity, idols in human shape, large or small, analogous to the images of ancestors which were revered by the Romans. In order to deceive the guards sent by Saul to seize David, Michal his wife prepared one of the household teraphim, putting on it the goat's-hair cap worn by sleepers and invalids, and laid it in a bed, covering it with a mantle. She pointed it out to the soldiers, and alleged that David was confined to his bed by a sudden illness ( 1Sa 19:13-16). Thus she gained time for David's escape. It seems strange to read of teraphim, images of ancestors, preserved for superstitious purposes, being in the house of David. Probably they had been stealthily brought by Michal from her father's house. "Perhaps," says Bishop Wordsworth, "Saul, forsaken by God and possessed by the evil spirit, had resorted to teraphim ( as he afterwards resorted to witchcraft); and God overruled evil for good, and made his very teraphim ( by the hand of his own daughter) to be an instrument for David's escape.", Deane's David, p. 32. Josiah attempted to suppress this form of idolatry ( 2Ki 23:24). The ephod and teraphim are mentioned together in Hsa 3:4. It has been supposed by some ( Cheyne's Hosea) that the "ephod" here mentioned, and also in Jdg 8:24-27, was not the part of the sacerdotal dress so called ( Exd 28:6-14), but an image of Jehovah overlaid with gold or silver ( comp. Judg. 17, 18; 1Sa 21:9; 23:6,9; 30:7,8), and is thus associated with the teraphim. ( See THUMMIM T0003648.)

WOW ! Thanks stumpjumper ,

now ,i know why i never saw it ......heehee !

God bless C

t1wGl said:

Why did Rachel steal her father's gods?

Then hide them from him and from Jacob?


Did she do it out of spite?

Did she want to secretly worship them?

Was she stealing them for the gold?

Click to expand...

Rachel, and others in the large group that went out with Jacob from Laban, probably took along their 'household gods' and other religious artifacts because they simply wanted to continue their custom of worship.

That Rachel 'stole' them from her father is understandable, as that was probably the only way she could obtain them. It is doubtful, considering Laban's character, that he would have given them to her freely, if at all. He would have demanded something unreasonable in return. Rachel knew this, and thus had only one choice; to steal them.

When Jacob was finally free from all other influences and back in his own land God instructed him to build an alter to perform worship rituals upon. It was only at this time that Jacob told his family and servants to put away the household gods that he knew they possessed, and in effect to repent of idol worship. Rachel, and perhaps others that knew Jacob's beliefs, probably didn't want to offend him by revealing that they had these idols. But there is no indication that Jacob was concerned about this until this time.

That Jacob "hid" these items under the oak tree implies that they would be visited and dug up at a future time. The word "buried" (an alternate meaning) would have been more appropriate, as it denotes the finality that is certainly implied.

owg

oldwiseguy said:

Rachel, and others in the large group that went out with Jacob from Laban, probably took along their 'household gods' and other religious artifacts because they simply wanted to continue their custom of worship.

That Rachel 'stole' them from her father is understandable, as that was probably the only way she could obtain them. It is doubtful, considering Laban's character, that he would have given them to her freely, if at all. He would have demanded something unreasonable in return. Rachel knew this, and thus had only one choice; to steal them.

When Jacob was finally free from all other influences and back in his own land God instructed him to build an alter to perform worship rituals upon. It was only at this time that Jacob told his family and servants to put away the household gods that he knew they possessed, and in effect to repent of idol worship. Rachel, and perhaps others that knew Jacob's beliefs, probably didn't want to offend him by revealing that they had these idols. But there is no indication that Jacob was concerned about this until this time.

That Jacob "hid" these items under the oak tree implies that they would be visited and dug up at a future time. The word "buried" (an alternate meaning) would have been more appropriate, as it denotes the finality that is certainly implied.

owg

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I can not be more disappointed in your answer.

Rachel was afraid to ask her father for his gods so she took them.
Rachel knew nothing about Jacobs God so she took her fathers God.
Rachel never noticed how rich Jacob got from his God, so she shined up her Fathers god

And Jacob after talking to the Lord placed all the gold and silver under an oak tree so he could come back later when God was not looking.

Have a nice day.

Censor

cCensor said:

"I can not be more disappointed in your answer."

And I am truly puzzled by your responses below.

"Rachel was afraid to ask her father for his gods so she took them."

Afraid? Read it again.

"Rachel knew nothing about Jacobs God so she took her fathers God."

I didn't say that.

"Rachel never noticed how rich Jacob got from his God, so she shined up her Fathers god"

I didn't say that either.

"And Jacob after talking to the Lord placed all the gold and silver under an oak tree so he could come back later when God was not looking."

I said just the opposite. Read it again.

"Have a nice day."

Censor

Click to expand...

Thanks. It's rained alot here, but otherwise not bad.

owg

t1wGl said:

Why did Rachel steal her father's gods?

Then hide them from him and from Jacob?


Did she do it out of spite?

Did she want to secretly worship them?

Was she stealing them for the gold?

Click to expand...

Lots of times the Bible doesn't tell us people's reasons or motivations. Lots of times the Bible doesn't tell us whether something was right or wrong. This story seems to me to be describing Jacob's character. He is a trickster, even when he doesn't mean to be. He claims not to have the teraphim, not knowing they actually are with him, then asks the Lord to judge between himself and Laban. Although this time Laban is more right, God favors Jacob anyway.

Rachel's reasons or motivations are not mentioned. Sometimes I think scripture leaves out details to make us wonder about the question. So what do you think, t1wGl? As far as I can see, the only hint is that Rachel and Leah didn't like the way their father had treated them. (Gen. 31:14-16) The conclusion that they felt entitled, but didn't think Laban would give them what they deserved is one possibility. In a famous novel written about this family, the author speculates that the men and the women of the family worshipped different gods, and that Rachel took the idols of the women. That would fit the entitlement idea and would also fit some of the things that seem to be true about ancient religions and marriages in the ANE, but it isn't something we can know for sure.