Question about purgatory and hell

Ryuuko9 said:

From what I've been taught, purgatory and hell are two different places where a soul is separated from God, hell being the worst place. I then found this statement today, from Romans 8:38-39:

"I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the Love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord".

This statement suggests that nothing would ever separate us from Christ Jesus. How can we justify the existence of purgatory and hell in light of this scripture?

Thanks!

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Denial of purgatory is denial of the perfect justice of God. Both God's love and justice are perfect. Anyone's unrepented venial sins and attachment to sin makes a person disqualified from entering heaven. According to the book of revelation "Nothing defiled or unholy can enter the gates of heaven". Those in purgatory are not really separated from the love of God. The love of God is with them that's why they're being purified before entering heaven. If God's love is not with them, they'll be in hell but it is not perfect justice for them to be in hell because their sins are not mortal or serious for them to deserve hell. If they don't deserve heaven and they don't deserve hell, where do you think they should go?

i've always had trouble telling the difference between purgatory and hell. And then i hear things about a place called "limbo", and that just confuses me even more!

So good question, but i have no clue as to what the answer is!

Ryuuko9 said:

Why would the soul stop evolving though, even though it's not bound by the constraints of linear time anymore?

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How can something change when there is no "time" to do so? We do things here on earth because we have time to do so. When our time runs out, it runs out. There is no netherworld full of second chances.

The Church also teaches that we go through a particular judgement at our death. That judgement is eternal. Hence, there can be no change for an unrepentent soul. (By "unrepentent" I mean a soul whose destination is NOT heaven.) If we all undergo a particuar judgement at death, then your hypothesis would go against that teaching - as it would imply a judgement that could be reversed.

LindsaytheStar* said:

i've always had trouble telling the difference between purgatory and hell. And then i hear things about a place called "limbo", and that just confuses me even more!

So good question, but i have no clue as to what the answer is!

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Purgatory is the temporary abode of those who are saved but due to their unrepented venial sins or/and attachment to sin cannot enter heaven. Once they're purified in purgatory, they go to heaven. Hell is the permanent abode of the damned who said yes to the devil and no to God. Hell is everlasting damnation whereas purgatory is temporary purification. Limbo of the infants and limbo of the fathers are not Catholic doctrines but past theologians theory/opinions.

LindsaytheStar* said:

i've always had trouble telling the difference between purgatory and hell. And then i hear things about a place called "limbo", and that just confuses me even more!

So good question, but i have no clue as to what the answer is!

Click to expand...

"Limbo" and purgatory are the same; a state of purification for the elect; the outer edges of hell.

Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? Well the rich was not in hell (as most maintstream Christians believe), but rather, he was in limbo, or purgatory, or sometimes referred to as "prison"; part of hell (sheol) but not the permanent part like Hades or Ghenna.

LindsaytheStar* said:

i've always had trouble telling the difference between purgatory and hell. And then i hear things about a place called "limbo", and that just confuses me even more!

So good question, but i have no clue as to what the answer is!

Click to expand...

Purgatory is not a place and it’s not hell, and it’s not heaven.

It is when you die you are not ready for heaven. You have love of God in you but the love of God has not totally possessed you, meaning you still love yourself and maybe attached to some habitual sins. You can be forgiven the sins and the eternal punishment due those sins, which is hell, are gone never to be heard of again but the truth is, we may still be a mess.

Look at it like if you were addicted to drinking. You stop, but you still crave the drink. It is similar to that, we may still be attached to the sin even though we resist the temptation, and on those times we fall we seek forgiveness and receive it but we still crave that sin.

Purgatory is a state, a place, we really don't know exactly but it is when we will, because the things of this world, our own flesh and the enemy is no longer hounding us, we will be able to rid ourselves of the sin attachments and all the self love we have and perfect the little love of God we do have.

Hell is when we have no love of God in our souls at all. We are judged and we go where we want. We look at God and know he is love and want no part of that love and mercy. As crazy as that sounds, some people do chose this, I imagine. The soul who rejects God's mercy goes to hell because that is where he wants to be. The soul who looks at God and knows how imperfect he is will willing go to purgatory and be happy to go because we will know we can not enter heaven as unclean as we are and we have met our Lord in all his glory and we want to, we burn with the desire to be pure for him and this is our pain and our suffering. We suffer but we are comforted in knowing that we are perfecting ourselves for God and that we will be with him.

Those who go to heaven have reach a purification of soul while still here, they reached perfection through love. "Love covers a multitude of sin." We are ready for heaven when all we have is love of God and like the bible says, he incresed and we decreased.

Rising_Suns said:

"Limbo" and purgatory are the same; a state of purification for the elect; the outer edges of hell.

Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? Well the rich was not in hell (as most maintstream Christians believe), but rather, he was in limbo, or purgatory, or sometimes referred to as "prison"; part of hell (sheol) but not the permanent part like Hades or Ghenna.

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From what I understand about limbo is that it is a state of us not knowing. Meaning, babies who are not baptized are in limbo- not a place and not purgatory. We don’t know we leave them to the mercy of God- aka limbo.

The same with those who awaited Christ, they were in limbo- meaning we don’t know exactly ‘where’ they were ‘at’. A place, a state? We don’t know.

This is my take on it I don’t if I’m right but this is how I understand it.

Ryuuko9 said:

Interesting perspective--I had never really thought of that. Why would the soul stop evolving though, even though it's not bound by the constraints of linear time anymore?

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Well if we use your logic then angles and saints in haven now can change their positions and go down to hell.

I think it has been established that when we look at the beatific vision, we can not change our minds one way or the other. We go to the ‘reward’ we have worked hard to earn. Heaven or hell and if you are still working on heaven but are not ready yet, purgatory is for you. (BTW, I can hear the yells and screams of horror form the Protestants with that statement that we work for our reward. ‘You don’t think Jesus sacrifice is enough! I can hear it now’)

Anyway…

All we have is this life; we do not have the after life to transform the fallen sinful man into something beautiful for God.

It's pretty easy, there are those who don't want to be beautiful for God and there are those who do. There are also those who think we don’t have to be beautiful for God because we are covered up dung, but that’s another thread altogether.

Those who don't want to be beautiful for God- go where they won't be and when they resurrect they will have hideous ugly bodies that will reflect what their soul is like. Those who do want to be beautiful for God, go to heaven if they are and those who want to be not have achieved this yet, go to purgatory. Purgatory is the ultimate show of God’s mercy.

It’s all about the elevation of the soul in time which is this world, where you will be for all eternity. The saints who have reached this state of perfection while still in this world show us what the soul must be like to enter heaven. St. Bernadette is one who comes to mind. Her body is incorruptible. This is s sign to us that if that if the body after death is this beautiful, how beautiful is the soul?

Purgatory is where your soul 'evolves’ into something beautiful for God if you are like me and no saint. Once you have made the transformation- there is no de-transforming back. You had the life that was given you by God. Humans were created to share God’s life but we fell… but then God saved us so through grace we can become what God saved us to be.

He saved us so we can be beautiful yet again and share his life with him and this world, this life, in time and in space is where we become what we were redeemed by God to be, true sons and daughters of His. If we die with his love in us even if it’s a little he won’t forsake us to the nether world. He will clean us up so we can be with him.