question about adultery

MoNiCa4316 · Feb 17, 2012

In another thread, something was brought up..

we know that if a person marries and then divorces and marries again, they commit adultery if their first marriage was valid, so they'd need an annulment if they could get one to stay with their second partner.

the point that was brought up is - if there's a bond that's formed between two people if they have sex, what happens if they have premarital sex and then marry someone else? are they committing adultery?

I'm not arguing anything here, just trying to see what the Church's view would be. Does it only apply to marriage? I know the couple that has premarital sex would be committing the sin of fornication..

Jesus talked about a man committing adultery if he only looks at a woman lustfully, because the woman might be another's wife, (or another's future wife?). But what about premarital sex, does it mean they later commit adultery if they marry someone else?

thanks

ProScribe · Feb 17, 2012

Not sure about that either. The abortion/contraceptive issue also came up.

It would concern a mistress/spouse but very much remains a 'mystery'.

Lady Bug · Feb 17, 2012

I hope not because that means I could never marry anyone, it seems.

There is a verse in Corinthians somewhere that if a man unites with a prostitute he becomes one flesh with her, and one flesh is a term that is synonymous with people being married, so...

The faith isn't supposed to be so depressing...what the hell is going on

ProScribe · Feb 17, 2012

Lady Bug said:
I hope not because that means I could never marry anyone, it seems.

There is a verse in Corinthians somewhere that if a man unites with a prostitute he becomes one flesh with her, and one flesh is a term that is synonymous with people being married, so...

The faith isn't supposed to be so depressing...what the hell is going on

What I think has been going on is people have been observing and analyzing sexuality in us humans.

It could be said that talking about Sex or a subject related to it was a Issue for National Geographic.

JacktheCatholic · Feb 17, 2012

I would look it up in the CCC: Catechism of the Catholic Church - Table of Contents

My experiences over the years have found that I tend to receive a lot of erroneous advice from fellow Catholics (from deacon to priest to director of ed). But the CCC is an assured teaching tool and full of answers that we struggle with almost always. I find myself looking up things I read before at times to read it again and even study it further to try and make more sense of it. Anyhow, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a great gift and thank you Pope John Paul II. It has helped my family greatly.

benedictaoo · Feb 17, 2012

Fornication falls under adultery and like all sin, any sin, it can be forgiven, so Lady Bug you can marry. Its not adultery as in you are married by God to the person you have out of wed lock sex with.

Its that yes, we do bond with ppl who we have relations with and you may break up with them but they may always feel as if they are a part of you. Its more of an emotional thing.

I don't know though, folks have found a way to completely disconnect sex from any emotion. and the more ppl your with, the less its meaningful. so wen you get married, you will no doubt have intimacy issues.

One woman gave a good analogy. multiple sex partners is like Duck tape. Its real sticky the first few time you pull it off but the more you do it, the less it sticks.
But no we aren't married to them but we might have a life long connection for the first one of the first one or two, after a while wit so many, it will be like the duck tape.

JacktheCatholic · Feb 17, 2012

To save you some time, assuming you may be intrested, I am pasting only some of what I found:

Adultery

2380 Adultery refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.171 The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.172 The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.173

2381 Adultery is an injustice. He who commits adultery fails in his commitment. He does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is, transgresses the rights of the other spouse, and undermines the institution of marriage by breaking the contract on which it is based. He compromises the good of human generation and the welfare of children who need their parents' stable union.

Divorce

2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.174 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.175

Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."176

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself.178

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179

I bolded the definition and it appears it is when the sin takes place and at least one person is married.

benedictaoo · Feb 17, 2012

The Commandment is adultery, thou shall not commit adultery and fornication, all sexual sins falls under this umbrella.

SpiritualAntiseptic · Feb 17, 2012

MoNiCa4316 said:
In another thread, something was brought up..

we know that if a person marries and then divorces and marries again, they commit adultery if their first marriage was valid, so they'd need an annulment if they could get one to stay with their second partner.

the point that was brought up is - if there's a bond that's formed between two people if they have sex, what happens if they have premarital sex and then marry someone else? are they committing adultery?

I'm not arguing anything here, just trying to see what the Church's view would be. Does it only apply to marriage? I know the couple that has premarital sex would be committing the sin of fornication..

Jesus talked about a man committing adultery if he only looks at a woman lustfully, because the woman might be another's wife, (or another's future wife?). But what about premarital sex, does it mean they later commit adultery if they marry someone else?

thanks

The answer is no, as there was no consent involved in the marriage (there was also a lack of a form, that is, a marriage ceremony). The annulment process looks at the consent and form in which a marriage takes place to determine whether it was valid or not.

MoNiCa4316 · Feb 17, 2012

Thanks for the replies,

maybe it's that the fornication is the one that's adultery, even though it came before marriage? I don't know, just wondering if that's the answer or not.

Christ said it's adultery for a man to look at a woman lustfully, if it's adultery before either of them are married, could it be argued that it's the same with fornication?

Raph · Feb 17, 2012

Do not be fooled, the marriage ceremony is a device of man and is nothing more than a legal contract between two parties. Just as a divorce contract is, God is not bound by either them.

The biblical seal of marriage is the sex, it is very simple, if the person one is having sex with is not a virgin, then one has commited adultery.

MoNiCa4316 · Feb 17, 2012

Raph said:
Do not be fooled, the marriage ceremony is a device of man and is nothing more than a legal contract between two parties. Just as a divorce contract is, God is not bound by either them.

The biblical seal of marriage is the sex, it is very simple, if the person one is having sex with is not a virgin, then one has commited adultery.

we don't believe that the marriage ceremony is just a human invention. It's a way that God blesses the union of the couple. It's also a Sacrament, where they receive grace. Yes there's a bond that is formed between the people during sex, but remember how Christ talks about marriage also. He was also present at a wedding (at Cana), and so He sanctified it. As for the last point, that's what I'm trying to figure out, in this discussion. But I disagree that marriage has no spiritual significance.. otherwise, premarital sex would not be a sin, but it is. If an unmarried couple are having sex, even if they don't ever marry anyone else, they're committing fornication. So yes marriage is significant.

MKJ · Feb 18, 2012

MoNiCa4316 said:
In another thread, something was brought up..

we know that if a person marries and then divorces and marries again, they commit adultery if their first marriage was valid, so they'd need an annulment if they could get one to stay with their second partner.

the point that was brought up is - if there's a bond that's formed between two people if they have sex, what happens if they have premarital sex and then marry someone else? are they committing adultery?

I'm not arguing anything here, just trying to see what the Church's view would be. Does it only apply to marriage? I know the couple that has premarital sex would be committing the sin of fornication..

Jesus talked about a man committing adultery if he only looks at a woman lustfully, because the woman might be another's wife, (or another's future wife?). But what about premarital sex, does it mean they later commit adultery if they marry someone else?

thanks

The idea that anyone who we have sex with we become one fleah with comes from Paul. It has never been the case that i have heard of that the Church has taught that we are actually married to a person we have sex with.

I think what paul is talking about is the natural way sex is supposed to operate. Giving the body in that way is meant to be part of marriage, so if we have sex with someone, it should be the case that we are essentially saying we are married to them.

I think this may have been more obvious in the past when marriages were handled a bit differently - they were essentially a promise between two people and then they had sex and they were married.

But you need both the act and the intent - it is because of our failings that both don't go together at times.

But even looking at the Catholic Church's treatment of annulment should show you this is true - you can have two consenting adults who have done marriage prep get married in the Church, and it not be valid because they didn't consent at some level. If that is the case how could people who have sex but don't consent to be married be married?

MoNiCa4316 · Feb 18, 2012

hmm.. I am wondering if it could be said, that if a person has sex before marriage with a different person, the pre-marital sex is the adultery, rather than the other way around. Of course the Church allows people to get married if they had pre-marital sex with another person, so maybe that's the way it is? I dont even know, I'm just wondering. I don't even know if the Church has ever defined this.

JacktheCatholic · Feb 18, 2012

MoNiCa4316 said:
hmm.. I am wondering if it could be said, that if a person has sex before marriage with a different person, the pre-marital sex is the adultery, rather than the other way around. Of course the Church allows people to get married if they had pre-marital sex with another person, so maybe that's the way it is? I dont even know, I'm just wondering. I don't even know if the Church has ever defined this.

The person guilty of adultery must be married. If both are not married then it is not adultery.

But I had to look up this definition and I used "Modern Catholic Dictionary" by John A. Hardon, S.J. and who is a professor of Dogmatic Theology. It is approved and an Imprimatur from Joseph T. O'Keefe, Vcar General at the Archdiocese of New York.

Defined:

ADULTERY. Sexual intercourse of a married person and another who is not the wife or husband. Forbidden by the sixth commandment of the Decalogue, it was extended in meaning by Christ, who forbade divorce with the right to remarry during the lifetime of one's legitimate spouse. (Etym. Latin adulterium, adultery, carnal or spiritual.)

If neither is married then the crime is Fornication, as defined from above:

FORNICATION. An act of sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who are not validly married, although they are free to marry. It is by its nature gravely sinful. (Etym. Latin fornicatio, fornication; from fornix, a vault, arch, brothel.)

JacktheCatholic · Feb 18, 2012

MoNiCa4316 said:
the point that was brought up is - if there's a bond that's formed between two people if they have sex, what happens if they have premarital sex and then marry someone else? are they committing adultery?

No, but they did commit fornication.

MoNiCa4316 said:
Jesus talked about a man committing adultery if he only looks at a woman lustfully, because the woman might be another's wife, (or another's future wife?). But what about premarital sex, does it mean they later commit adultery if they marry someone else?

thanks

The sin is what it is at the time of the crime. If there is a person who is not married and he/she has sex with someone who is married and they think they are not married then the single person commits Fornication only. The married person commits Adultery. If the single person later finds out they had sex with a married person then the crime is still only Fornication because of ignorance but it would be good for their conscience to go to confession and update any previous confession with the new information so they do not suffer from guilt (IMO).

MoNiCa4316 · Feb 18, 2012

JacktheCatholic said:
The person guilty of adultery must be married. If both are not married then it is not adultery.

But I had to look up this definition and I used "Modern Catholic Dictionary" by John A. Hardon, S.J. and who is a professor of Dogmatic Theology. It is approved and an Imprimatur from Joseph T. O'Keefe, Vcar General at the Archdiocese of New York.

Defined:

If neither is married then the crime is Fornication, as defined from above:

thanks! that helps

Chrystal-J · Feb 18, 2012

SpiritualAntiseptic said:
The answer is no, as there was no consent involved in the marriage (there was also a lack of a form, that is, a marriage ceremony). The annulment process looks at the consent and form in which a marriage takes place to determine whether it was valid or not.

I agree. There is no marriage just by having sex with someone. In John 4, Jesus talked to the woman at the well and distinguished between marriage and just living with someone.

16 He told her, Go, call your husband and come back.
17 I have no husband, she replied.
Jesus said to her, You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.

So, Jesus Himself noted a difference between a legal marriage and just living together or dating.

Chrystal-J · Feb 18, 2012

Raph said:
Do not be fooled, the marriage ceremony is a device of man and is nothing more than a legal contract between two parties. Just as a divorce contract is, God is not bound by either them.

The biblical seal of marriage is the sex, it is very simple, if the person one is having sex with is not a virgin, then one has commited adultery.

Under this logic, if a man sleeps with a married woman, is she now married to this man and her current husband?

MoNiCa4316 · Feb 18, 2012

that makes sense! I agree that marriage is a Sacrament and that explains a lot in the Bible like why premarital sex is wrong, why extramarital sex is adultery, why Jesus said to the woman that she has no husband, etc.

question about adultery

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