Quaffer - Paul -Job - Jesus

SavedByGrace3 · Nov 29, 2003

Just a little comment on a very important difference between Job and Quaffer.

Job was not a Christian. He apparently had little or no scripture to base faith upon. Some scholars date him to the period of time between the flood and Abraham. His struggle was not a faith fight. He has no profession of faith, no confession of faith, no gospel, no cross, no Jesus at the right Hand of the Father, no name of Jesus, and most importantly in his case... the devil was not yet a defeated foe.
Let's bring Job into the present day, assume he is a believer, and play out the scenario.
If the devil came before God today, Jesus would simply tell him to get lost... Job would be a child of God that was bought with His blood. Jesus would have defeated satan 2000 years ago, and so satan has no place before God trying to get God to harm Job. If satan tries to harm Job anyway, Job has access to name of Jesus, and can chase Satan away by resisting him with that name. Job would be a member of the body of Christ, and so to harm job would mean he could harm Jesus. If Job knows his rights and resists... Satan must flee.
I know Quaffer pretty well. We all struggle with issues today, but I doubt that she would compare her fight of faith to that of Job.
Forgive me if I am wrong.

SpiritPsalmist · Nov 29, 2003

WOW! My name the subject of a thread.

Geeze if I could only claim that my suffering came as a result of my godliness. But I can't. Neither can I say that my suffering came as a result of God's hand so that He could teach me something. I can however, with pretty good confidense say that when I gave my life to the Lord as a small child that I became the enemy of the devil.

I believe scripture shows that he, the devil is out to kill, steal, and destroy. he did everything possible to make that happen. However, I knew, even at a young age Who my redeemer was and I clung to him with every part of my being.

All the bad stuff did not happen to me because God wanted to teach me something but yet in the process of the bad happening I did learn a lot. One of the things that I learned was that my Father does not put me at the mercy of my enemy. My Father does not throw me to the wolves.

The way I have learned about my Father was through intimate times with Him. The way I have learned about my Father was when the difficult times came, learning to run to His feet in worship and praise and then seeing Him deliver me from those difficult times. Some of those times of deliverance came immediately but most came over a period of time where He taught me where I had possible contributed to the difficult times and then through the long hard road He walked me out of the diffucult times. There are some that I'm still walking through. . .and I see a light at the end of the tunnel.

One of the things that I have learned from Job is that it's possible to do all the right things in the physical but still have it all wrong on the inside. In Job 42:3 Job says, "I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know." Then in verse 5 he says, "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You." Job had a problem with pride and while he never raised his voice to come against God, he also had no real understanding of God and Who He was. Job made a lot of rash statements about things he'd only heard but he'd never experienced any of them.

I'd like to compare myself to Jesus but unfortionately I don't even come close. One time I was fired because I would not lie for my employer. I was fired on Friday and had a better job on Monday. God did not make me suffer without being able to pay my bills. He gave me an even better job of which there were many perks to follow.

I have yet to be beheaded as Paul was and if it came to that I would hope that I would do it as valliantly as Paul did. I've also not experienced being boiled in oil, or imprisoned and being chained to my guards. I don't see any comparison there at all other than we rely on the same Jesus Christ Who was raised from the dead.

I'm glad iktca that you are inspired by the writings in my journal. The reason that I have written them down is to show that my trust is in Jesus. Not once, even in my youth, under the abusive hand of my mother did I believe that He was allowing it to happen. I did however, understand that the enemy wanted to destroy me, but I learned what scripture says about drawing near to God and resisting the enemy and him having to flee as a result. I put drawing near to God into practice and I saw satan flee.

he, satan keeps trying though, and the attacks may get bigger but that is all the more reason to draw even closer to my Father, Who delivers me from all the attacks of the enemy.

AlabamaMan · Nov 29, 2003

Quaffer said:
WOW! My name the subject of a thread.

Geeze if I could only claim that my suffering came as a result of my godliness. But I can't. Neither can I say that my suffering came as a result of God's hand so that He could teach me something. I can however, with pretty good confidense say that when I gave my life to the Lord as a small child that I became the enemy of the devil.

I believe scripture shows that he, the devil is out to kill, steal, and destroy. he did everything possible to make that happen. However, I knew, even at a young age Who my redeemer was and I clung to him with every part of my being.

All the bad stuff did not happen to me because God wanted to teach me something but yet in the process of the bad happening I did learn a lot. One of the things that I learned was that my Father does not put me at the mercy of my enemy. My Father does not throw me to the wolves.

The way I have learned about my Father was through intimate times with Him. The way I have learned about my Father was when the difficult times came, learning to run to His feet in worship and praise and then seeing Him deliver me from those difficult times. Some of those times of deliverance came immediately but most came over a period of time where He taught me where I had possible contributed to the difficult times and then through the long hard road He walked me out of the diffucult times. There are some that I'm still walking through. . .and I see a light at the end of the tunnel.

One of the things that I have learned from Job is that it's possible to do all the right things in the physical but still have it all wrong on the inside. In Job 42:3 Job says, "I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know." Then in verse 5 he says, "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You." Job had a problem with pride and while he never raised his voice to come against God, he also had no real understanding of God and Who He was. Job made a lot of rash statements about things he'd only heard but he'd never experienced any of them.

I'd like to compare myself to Jesus but unfortionately I don't even come close. One time I was fired because I would not lie for my employer. I was fired on Friday and had a better job on Monday. God did not make me suffer without being able to pay my bills. He gave me an even better job of which there were many perks to follow.

I have yet to be beheaded as Paul was and if it came to that I would hope that I would do it as valliantly as Paul did. I've also not experienced being boiled in oil, or imprisoned and being chained to my guards. I don't see any comparison there at all other than we rely on the same Jesus Christ Who was raised from the dead.

I'm glad iktca that you are inspired by the writings in my journal. The reason that I have written them down is to show that my trust is in Jesus. Not once, even in my youth, under the abusive hand of my mother did I believe that He was allowing it to happen. I did however, understand that the enemy wanted to destroy me, but I learned what scripture says about drawing near to God and resisting the enemy and him having to flee as a result. I put drawing near to God into practice and I saw satan flee.

he, satan keeps trying though, and the attacks may get bigger but that is all the more reason to draw even closer to my Father, Who delivers me from all the attacks of the enemy.

This right here is one reason I can say that Quaffer is a blessed woman of God. You never know how you touch others lives sister!

IKTCA · Nov 29, 2003

SpiritPsalmist · Nov 30, 2003

iktca said:
Quaffer,

Reading your post was a joy to my soul. As you have been a good cheer to me, you will be a good cheer to numerous brothers and sisters of Christ.

While reading a few pages of your journal, I asked myself if I would be able to give as much comfort and encouragement as you do through your journal. My answer was no. I have had far less "moments." As you pointed out, I was not an enemy of the Devil since I was serving him through my youth. When I submited to Jesus, I was in my 30's. No need for the enemy to attack me, no cry to the Father for rescue. I was dead without Jesus.

You have more, convicting testimonies to draw others to the Lord. Indeed, you are a better servant than I am. But I am not jeaous. Rather, I am glad that Christ has a servant like you.

I hope that you see someday how earnestly Job sought the Redeemer. Since it was before the Cross, his search was even more earnest and pure. And he was comforted.

I look forward to reading more posts from you.

Iktca,

I do see that Job sought the Redeemer as far as he understood Him. There was a lot before all the troubles that Job did not understand yet at the end we see him saying, "my eye now sees". God truly did use what the enemy had done to Job to cause Job to see the area he lacked in. Job repented and God replaced all that the enemy had stolen from him.

Job was righteous in that he sought God even though he did not have full knowledge of God in his spirit. Even though in his inner man Job probably wanted to "curse God and die" as his wife had suggested, he understood enough to not do that. Job obeyed in action even though he did not have full understanding of God's heart behind the action.

Job is to be respected. He said a lot of things that could mirror our own thoughts. . ."Why me?" "What did I do to deserve this?", etc.. All of us go through this and Job showed us at the end the right thing to do. . .Listen to God, Repent, forgive those who offend us, and then walk in close fellowship with God.

IKTCA · Nov 30, 2003

altya · Nov 30, 2003

I agree with Iktca, Quaffer is a very special person and I too love to read her postings.

IKTCA · Nov 30, 2003

victoryword · Dec 1, 2003

Quaffer, I enjoyed reading your posts. All I can say at the moment is "WOW!!!!" The Lord truly has His hand upon you.

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 1, 2003

ya'll are making me blush

deg · Dec 1, 2003

Quaffer, your posts are wonderful, your spirit gentle, and your experience invaluable. Although I lack dangerously in all areas, I feel especially short in the last category. I have a question for you:

My Father will not throw me to the wolves. (This is not my question!)

I agree that our God is love, and anything contrary to love is not of Him. Here then is my question: How does one explain the invitation to satan from the Lord? How does one explain it? It seems almost contrary to Love, to God, to Jesus Christ...and yet...it seems so consistant.

This is the only way my baby eyes can interpret something like this: God allows, even causes (have you considered my servant?) these things in order to effect something greater, something pulled through fire.

Are all fires caused by God? It seems that you don't believe so, and I can understand that attitude, I have had to adopt it myself, even if there are some things underneath which whisper otherwise. I fell into darkness one night 3 weeks ago (I have never had the experience of being visited by things other than the Holy Spirit, so it was a COMPLETELY NEW thing for me, and I was taken offguard) and the only way through it was Him. I think I can say pretty honestly that I died that night, spiritually, twice. Yes, twice the candle of Truth flickered out in a mighty black wind, and I have never been under torment like that. Possession is like having the walls around your being overtaken from the inside! It's terrible, and I hope and pray the Lord's servants are never opened to such experiences.

Having said that, I came out on the other side with things I've never had before. The Cross has been worked into my being in a way that I could never have produced myself. Nee calls it "resurrection ground". I believe you see what I am saying.

So who caused this death? Who caused Jesus' death that He might be resurrected over all things, and given a Name over all names? Who allowed for three days the Son of God to lie in the blackness of hell? I daresay it was God. But coming through my experience, one of the lies within it was "God is doing this to you," and I had to shoot it down with my own beliefs; there were no "it is written" to help me. That was the lie which made me think "oh my gosh, I've gotta kill myself to get away from this!" A truly horrific thought.

Does our Father ever encourage the wolves? Does He call the wolves, that we might stay close to Him, or more appropriately, that we might come to Him? I don't know, and while I've had to tell myself that He never causes such things in order to maintain my sanity, I feel under the surface, down in the deep, my being thinks otherwise. Any thoughts? Any "It Is Written"s?

2 Cor 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 1, 2003

deg said:
Quaffer, your posts are wonderful, your spirit gentle, and your experience invaluable.

Thank you all for speaking of me so kindly. I'm glad that my postings are incouraging.

deg said:
Although I lack dangerously in all areas, I feel especially short in the last category. I have a question for you:

Just keep going after God with all ya got and you'll get plenty of experience. . .I can guarentee it

deg said:

My Father will not throw me to the wolves. (This is not my question!)

Click to expand...

deg said:
I agree that our God is love, and anything contrary to love is not of Him. Here then is my question: How does one explain the invitation to satan from the Lord? How does one explain it? It seems almost contrary to Love, to God, to Jesus Christ...and yet...it seems so consistant.

I don't see it quite as an invitation but as a pointing out that "those fenses" that had been up and protecting Job were now down. There was no hedge, where there previously had been. From this I get the impression that satan had given up even trying to get through the hedge and had not even looked until God pointed it out. God said, "have you considered?". satan answered, "you've got a hedge around him". And basically God's reply was, "look again (that's what behold means), all that he has IS accessable". In other words. . ."what hedge?".

deg said:
This is the only way my baby eyes can interpret something like this: God allows, even causes (have you considered my servant?) these things in order to effect something greater, something pulled through fire.

Are all fires caused by God? It seems that you don't believe so, and I can understand that attitude, I have had to adopt it myself, even if there are some things underneath which whisper otherwise.

The Refiner's Fire, (see Malachi 3:2)I believe is very different from satan's fire. The fire that our enemy brings is to kill, steal, and destroy. The Refiner's Fire comes to purify and mold us into His image.

Here is a copy of an e-mail someone sent me on the Refiner. . .I found it incouraging:
Some time ago, a few ladies met in a certain city to study the scriptures. While reading the third chapter of Malachi, they came upon a remarkable expression in the third verse:

"And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver (Malachi 3:3)"

One lady proposed to visit a silversmith, and report to them on what he said about the subject. She went accordingly, and without telling the object of her errand, begged the silversmith to tell her about the process of refining silver.

After he had fully described it to her, she asked, "But Sir, do you sit while the work of refining is going on?"

"Oh, yes madam," replied the silversmith; "I must sit with my eyes steadily fixed on the furnace, for if the time necessary for refining be exceeded in the slightest degree, the silver will be injured.
"The lady at once saw the beauty, and comfort too, of the expression, "He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver." God sees it needful to put His children into a furnace; His eye is steadily intent on the work of purifying, and His wisdom and love are both engaged in the best manner for us. Our trials do not come at random, and He will not let us be tested beyond what we can endure.

Before she left, the lady asked one final question, "When do you know the process is complete?"

"Why, that is quite simple," replied the silversmith. "When I can see my own image in the silver, the refining process is finished."

deg said:
I fell into darkness one night 3 weeks ago (I have never had the experience of being visited by things other than the Holy Spirit, so it was a COMPLETELY NEW thing for me, and I was taken offguard) and the only way through it was Him. I think I can say pretty honestly that I died that night, spiritually, twice. Yes, twice the candle of Truth flickered out in a mighty black wind, and I have never been under torment like that. Possession is like having the walls around your being overtaken from the inside! It's terrible, and I hope and pray the Lord's servants are never opened to such experiences.

Having said that, I came out on the other side with things I've never had before. The Cross has been worked into my being in a way that I could never have produced myself. Nee calls it "resurrection ground". I believe you see what I am saying.

So who caused this death?

Are you referring the "death to self"? I'm not sure I understand.

deg said:
Who caused Jesus' death that He might be resurrected over all things, and given a Name over all names?

He laid His own life down. The plan was formed and executed using the people that God knew would respond as they did and Jesus laid himself, litterally, into their hands.

deg said:
Who allowed for three days the Son of God to lie in the blackness of hell?

Lie? I don't think so. Scripture says that He took back the keys to death, hell and the grave. . .does not sound like He was lying down on the job to me. Eph 4:8, and Rev 1:18

deg said:
I daresay it was God. But coming through my experience, one of the lies within it was "God is doing this to you," and I had to shoot it down with my own beliefs; there were no "it is written" to help me. That was the lie which made me think "oh my gosh, I've gotta kill myself to get away from this!" A truly horrific thought.

It is written "the thief comes but to kill, steal, and destroy". God is out to kill our will and comform it to His. God is out to make our dreams and visions better than we dreamed and visioned (made up word I think) But our enemy is out to kill us in any way that he can. If he can make us think that God is working against us and wants to use us as vessels of His wrath, instead of honor he will have accomplished his goal. "If God is against us. . .we would tend to just shrug our shoulders and say, "why bother?". Anything to keep us from pursuing the ONE WHO is able to make us into spitting images of Himself. . .what a kick in the teeth that must be to satan.

[/quote]Does our Father ever encourage the wolves? [/quote]I think we do that all on our own by listening to the lies of the wolf and not drawing near to God so that it will cause the wolf to flee. (James 4:7)

deg said:
Does He call the wolves, that we might stay close to Him, or more appropriately, that we might come to Him? I don't know, and while I've had to tell myself that He never causes such things in order to maintain my sanity, I feel under the surface, down in the deep, my being thinks otherwise. Any thoughts? Any "It Is Written"s?

2 Cor 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

It is written . . . Luke 22:31, 32 (NKJV) "And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail;".

Good news deg. . .Jesus prayed for all of us in John 17. . . .the whole chapter is Jesus' prayer. . .for us.

Hope this helps deg. . .be blessed!

Quaffer

deg · Dec 1, 2003

It does help, and is very reassuring. By the way, yes, the death to self was the one I was mentioning above.

And I believe that the Lord was directed to His death by the Father; the Father desired these things to come to pass. Jesus repeatedly asked to be allowed out of the situation, but was told what was desired of Him. He was directed Divinely to suffer. Yes, He accepted the cross, and laid down His own life, but the Will of the Father was a path of intense suffering. Maybe we too are being Divinely directed to suffer? I think Job may be evidence that we are suffering destructive things, through which we die that He might live in us.

I believe many people are going through Divinely ordained suffering for the purposes of obedience, conformity, submission, but never receive the message, thinking it is merely an undermining attack from the enemy. We are to grow out of and above these things, but the suffering is terrible indeed.

I think the Father may bring the wolves upon us that we may learn to avoid them and their dens in the future. No, not avoid, but that we would venture into their dens later, and raise a banner in the Name of Jesus Christ and erect a Light to break the darkness with which we were made familiar. Does this seem accurate?
He descended into hell by the will of the Father, that He might arise with those keys, and venture back in through us, to lead captivity captive. He wants us to sacrifice our Isaac, to live through Job's harsh experiences,
to descend into hell for 3 days, to wrestle with an angel all night and have our very being touched and broken. Brokenness is invaluable to our God, for it is in those states we become pliable, conformable. I want Him to touch my natural strength again, and break it, that I might rely wholly on Him, and receive the name Israel: Reigning With God.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us.

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

There is something so Divine about suffering. I just don't want to make the mistake of pointing to the enemy's work, and say "God did this so I could grow!" because as you say, he cometh to destroy, to kill, to maim, not to help.

Praise God that Jesus prayed for us all in John 17, it is a wonderfully comforting thought! Thank you again, Quaffer. I pray we all have the stout heart and spirit of a warrior like you, the church needs you badly!

In Him
Deg

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 2, 2003

deg said:
It does help, and is very reassuring. By the way, yes, the death to self was the one I was mentioning above.

And I believe that the Lord was directed to His death by the Father; the Father desired these things to come to pass. Jesus repeatedly asked to be allowed out of the situation, but was told what was desired of Him. He was directed Divinely to suffer. Yes, He accepted the cross, and laid down His own life, but the Will of the Father was a path of intense suffering. Maybe we too are being Divinely directed to suffer? I think Job may be evidence that we are suffering destructive things, through which we die that He might live in us.

I believe many people are going through Divinely ordained suffering for the purposes of obedience, conformity, submission, but never receive the message, thinking it is merely an undermining attack from the enemy. We are to grow out of and above these things, but the suffering is terrible indeed.

Deg, I believe there is a vast difference between Jesus going to the cross to suffer as the final sacrifice for all the sins of mankind and our day to day sufferings. Most of our "sufferings" (quote/unquote) are just inconveniences to our day to day schedules and/or things that we've brought on ourselves by the choices we make and/or choices others in our corner of the world make. Other "sufferings" (quote/unquote) may be illnesses that we're dealing with. . .but I don't clasify these as the same sufferings that are spoken of in the Bible as "suffering for righteousness".

We suffer for righteousness when we're beheaded for preaching Christ. We suffer for righteousness when we get fired for refusing to lie for a boss. We suffer for righteousness when it's because of our stand for Christ that has brought on the suffering.

Whichever sufferings we are experienceing, we are told in scripture to do it with joy. Understanding that the trial (which generally brings on suffering) is there to bring out endurance, steadfastness, and patience. And when we die to the flesh and let endurance, steadfastness, and patience do it's work, we may be people perfectly and fully developed, with no defects, and lacking in nothing. (James 1)

Did God lead us into all those experiences? Well. . .knowing us fully as he does, I believe He watches over us as our own choices and such lead us into certain areas and then from those choices, some good, some bad we will learn to stand and walk in the Spirit as we're told too. Without those "experiences", we could not grow and become more like Him.

deg said:
I think the Father may bring the wolves upon us that we may learn to avoid them and their dens in the future. No, not avoid, but that we would venture into their dens later, and raise a banner in the Name of Jesus Christ and erect a Light to break the darkness with which we were made familiar. Does this seem accurate?

When I speak of wolves, I'm referring to demons. I believe that people allow themselves to be used by the wolves, but our battle is not against "flesh and blood". (Eph6:12) I don't think He calls the wolves over. I think they are just waiting for us to let our guard down so they can get a foothold. Eph 4:27 says, "neither give place to the devil". If we did not have a part in the giving of the place, how could we give it to the devil? Just a thought.

deg said:
He descended into hell by the will of the Father, that He might arise with those keys, and venture back in through us, to lead captivity captive. He wants us to sacrifice our Isaac,

Yes, we must be willing to give up all and follow Him

deg said:
to live through Job's harsh experiences,

To live through harsh experiences, yes. . .Job's harsh experiences. . .not necessarily. We are to learn to be overcomers. Of course we learn this by overcoming. . .sometimes over and over and over again. But at some point, our faith could possible be so strong by all this experience that we can look at and tell it "in the name of Jesus" be gone and it goes. I ain't there yet. . .but I'm aiming at it. I mean if we're supposed to be learning something what is it that is keeping the learning from happening?

deg said:
to descend into hell for 3 days,

mmm, ya lost me on this one Jesus already did that. . .we don't need to.

deg said:
to wrestle with an angel all night and have our very being touched and broken. Brokenness is invaluable to our God, for it is in those states we become pliable, conformable. I want Him to touch my natural strength again, and break it, that I might rely wholly on Him, and receive the name Israel: Reigning With God.

Yes, above all. . .we are to desire Him. Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will obey me". Each of us have things that God is directing us to do in this life. . .via scripture and our own personal time with Him. It is up to us to bring our own flesh under submission to Him, and allow Him to show us who we are and Who He is and allow Him to mold us into His image.

deg said:
There is something so Divine about suffering. I just don't want to make the mistake of pointing to the enemy's work, and say "God did this so I could grow!" because as you say, he cometh to destroy, to kill, to maim, not to help.

Under any suffering (whether it's our fault or not) God is working in us patience, endurance, and steadfastness, and I believe, it's our own unwillingness to suffer with joy that keeps the suffering hanging around. Learning to "Rejoice in the Lord Always", is an important command to take note of.

deg said:
Praise God that Jesus prayed for us all in John 17, it is a wonderfully comforting thought! Thank you again, Quaffer. I pray we all have the stout heart and spirit of a warrior like you, the church needs you badly!

In Him
Deg

You all have been much too kind in your words to me. One of the reasons I'm on this forum is the intense desire to see and help people "grow up". So much of our "suffering" (quote/unquote) is due to not growing up. Of course I think I have a lot of my own growing up to do. It seems that no matter how old one is in the Lord we are ever learning and growing in something. At least we won't get bored ey?

deg · Dec 2, 2003

Oh, the sufferings of the Cross!

Quaffer, I do not wish to seem repetitive nor argumentative. It is not my purpose. But I feel there is suffering which has come upon me apart from being cut down while preaching, apart from wordly cares and inconveniences, apart from the troubles of illness or righteousness. It is deeper inside.

Please, I do not in any way minimize these experiences as sufferings for the Coss! They are beautiful incense before our God, and I know He will reward and rectify such things, whether in this life or the next.

I'm afraid my suffering is arriving...no thats not right...rising from within. It is a deep, somber state in which I find myself immersed. It is not depression!! I still experience joy, love, and I absolutely burst in passionate worship for my God at services. In fact, these sufferings have enriched my relationship with my most precious Jesus. They have brought a joy far deeper, far wider than just joy. It is almost as if the emotion has departed, and the Spirit behind the emotion has arrived, and it's description is terribly difficult to convey, especially in written word. These are not related to physical nor relational suffering, but a massive, consistant spiritual burden (not a burden as in pain or debilitating emotion). It is almost as if I am constantly aware of the death surrounding, and at times it is quite breaking. I might almost call it an overbearing reverence.

I must repeat, this is no result of any physical occurence! It is almost like I am constantly in a presence which is not my own, and I am coming to terms with it. This presence brings so many things, and it is truly an overwhelming presence at times. I always thought that the Holy Spirit only came in a banner of peaceful thought and physical state. Not so! The things that I am seeing have only brought weeping to my spirit. A deep weep, as though the Spirit Himself is causing me to weep within. It is a terrible burden for the death of blindness which has taken the strongholds of the hearts of this generation. It is a missing generation! It is as though we are not fitted for the Divine! We have missed something terribly important, and I feel so unusually burdened!

Please, I do ask the board, and any who read this message to pray for me.

The gates of faith have been passed, and the Lord has been so gracious in giving me eyes of White. I see the black now, and it is too much for a youth! Everywhere I turn, there is the black. Dead eyes. A faithless, perverse generation. I was once a hardened druggy; the Lord Himself pulled back all the calloused flesh over my heart, and has penetrated. I'm cut to the heart, nay, to the spirit. Cut. Truly cut.

This is the suffering of which I write. It is truly of Him. No debate could convince me otherwise, for I know it to be Him. I remember offering to bear some of His suffering early in my walk; I knew I didn't want Him bearing it alone, but I never expected this sort of a thing. But here I have wandered around to come to my point: He brought me this burden, I know it. It has brought me infintely closer to Him, and has almost literally burned away the dross within my life. The sins I struggled with only months ago, I now hate them with intense passion. I hate darkenss, for He has allowed me to taste of it. The word hate falls short. This is how I know it was Him. I cling, trembling, to the hem of His garments, praying fervently against the things surrounding, enveloping. The fire which fell in painful force has procured from me something so Eternal and Divine, I would never have traded my personal hell for anything. This is what I have tried to depict in my previous posts, but was unable.

I hope and pray this has cleared the mists of my confusing messages. May we all be edified and strengthened in the Lord, for His riches are so incomparable to anything! He is so magnificently Glorious! The Day Star shall arise in the hearts of the believers, and the Sun of Righteousness shall never set! Hallelujah! Praise God! He is so Beautiful, so Bright!! Oh, Praise God! Praise God!

Praise the Lord!
Deg

Big Mouth Nana · Dec 2, 2003

deg said:
Oh, the sufferings of the Cross!

Quaffer, I do not wish to seem repetitive nor argumentative. It is not my purpose. But I feel there is suffering which has come upon me apart from being cut down while preaching, apart from wordly cares and inconveniences, apart from the troubles of illness or righteousness. It is deeper inside.

Please, I do not in any way minimize these experiences as sufferings for the Coss! They are beautiful incense before our God, and I know He will reward and rectify such things, whether in this life or the next.

I'm afraid my suffering is arriving...no thats not right...rising from within. It is a deep, somber state in which I find myself immersed. It is not depression!! I still experience joy, love, and I absolutely burst in passionate worship for my God at services. In fact, these sufferings have enriched my relationship with my most precious Jesus. They have brought a joy far deeper, far wider than just joy. It is almost as if the emotion has departed, and the Spirit behind the emotion has arrived, and it's description is terribly difficult to convey, especially in written word. These are not related to physical nor relational suffering, but a massive, consistant spiritual burden (not a burden as in pain or debilitating emotion). It is almost as if I am constantly aware of the death surrounding, and at times it is quite breaking. I might almost call it an overbearing reverence.

I must repeat, this is no result of any physical occurence! It is almost like I am constantly in a presence which is not my own, and I am coming to terms with it. This presence brings so many things, and it is truly an overwhelming presence at times. I always thought that the Holy Spirit only came in a banner of peaceful thought and physical state. Not so! The things that I am seeing have only brought weeping to my spirit. A deep weep, as though the Spirit Himself is causing me to weep within. It is a terrible burden for the death of blindness which has taken the strongholds of the hearts of this generation. It is a missing generation! It is as though we are not fitted for the Divine! We have missed something terribly important, and I feel so unusually burdened!

Please, I do ask the board, and any who read this message to pray for me.

The gates of faith have been passed, and the Lord has been so gracious in giving me eyes of White. I see the black now, and it is too much for a youth! Everywhere I turn, there is the black. Dead eyes. A faithless, perverse generation. I was once a hardened druggy; the Lord Himself pulled back all the calloused flesh over my heart, and has penetrated. I'm cut to the heart, nay, to the spirit. Cut. Truly cut.

This is the suffering of which I write. It is truly of Him. No debate could convince me otherwise, for I know it to be Him. I remember offering to bear some of His suffering early in my walk; I knew I didn't want Him bearing it alone, but I never expected this sort of a thing. But here I have wandered around to come to my point: He brought me this burden, I know it. It has brought me infintely closer to Him, and has almost literally burned away the dross within my life. The sins I struggled with only months ago, I now hate them with intense passion. I hate darkenss, for He has allowed me to taste of it. The word hate falls short. This is how I know it was Him. I cling, trembling, to the hem of His garments, praying fervently against the things surrounding, enveloping. The fire which fell in painful force has procured from me something so Eternal and Divine, I would never have traded my personal hell for anything. This is what I have tried to depict in my previous posts, but was unable.

I hope and pray this has cleared the mists of my confusing messages. May we all be edified and strengthened in the Lord, for His riches are so incomparable to anything! He is so magnificently Glorious! The Day Star shall arise in the hearts of the believers, and the Sun of Righteousness shall never set! Hallelujah! Praise God! He is so Beautiful, so Bright!! Oh, Praise God! Praise God!

Praise the Lord!
Deg

Hi Deg. I just read your post, and I was so caught up into what you were saying, that I feel like I am feeling what you are feeling. It is hard to explain.
I went through something like this a few months back, a horrible vexation of my Spirit for the church, and what alot of it has become. The Holy Spirit told me that the churchs bridal clothes had become soiled, and we had become like harlots. The heaviness of Spirit was almost over whelming to me. I still had the joy of the Lord at times, but the revelation of what He had given me grieved me intensly at times.
I think the Lord is revealing things to people for the end times, and some of them affect us greatly. Can you imagine how vexed Paul was in his Spirit from the abundance of revelations that he received, yet he still had his joy?
We may not understand the Lords dealings with us, as you stated that you have this burden for the lost generation, and I, the burden for the church. One thing for sure, they aren't "lost" in Gods eyes. All we can do is pray about the particular burdens that the Lord has placed on our hearts, and the results will come. Otherwise, he wouldn't give us the burdens...right? We aren't the only ones receiving these burdens. We have brothers and sisters all over the world that God is giving these burdens to. God Bless, and keep your joy. The joy of the Lord is our strength.

deg · Dec 2, 2003

Yes, Her garments are soiled. So soiled, so filthy. BHG, you certainly see and know the things which I have been touched by. Heaviness of Spirit, exactly, that's exactly it. Too much heaviness sometimes! These revelations hit with such truth, such real knowledge, and we can never turn back, because there are doors of sensitivity that have been opened forever. Behold, He surely opens doors which no man can shut. Thou art blessed to bear the sufferings of the Spirit, a treasure in the earthen vessel.

Oh, let that Joy and Peace flow once more Father!

Isa 52:11

In Him,
Deg

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 3, 2003

Hi Deg,

I understand what you are saying now. That deep grieving for a lost and dying world. . .and then add in many that are part of the church yet are still struggling with things that should have been cleaned out of their lives long ago. That indeed is a different kind of suffering all on it's own. It's not a debilitating suffering that keeps us from doing what God calls us to, yet indeed is painful.

I experience that grieving as I read many posting on here of those who say they are Christian yet are hurting themselves and are continuing to subject themselves to things that only keep them bound up instead of free. . .which is what Jesus did. . . set them free. As I read, sometimes I weep for the blindness that continues to pervade the hearts of many who know Christ, yet don't really.

But. . .. . . I read a scripture this morning in IS 42:16 and I found it quite incouraging. Here it is in the Amplified version (my favorite), it's God speaking: "And I will bring the blind by a way that they know not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known. I will make darkness into light before them and make uneven places into a plain. These things I have determined to do [for them]; and I will not leave them forsaken."

He's coming back for a bride w/o spot or wrinkle and He's going to do everything possible, even let us wander in our own blindness and experience sufferings as a result of it. Yes. . .He promises that we will not be left forsaken. As long as it is Him we trust in, He will see to it that the work He started in us is finished.

Thank you Jesus for Your mercy and grace. I'm reminded of an old hymn that I heard growing up: It is joy unspeakable and full of glory, full of glory, full of glory. It is joy upspeakable and full of glory and the half has never yet been told.

His joy is our strength.

deg · Dec 3, 2003

I praise the Lord this morning for His great and precious promises. It is for these very reasons that I do not think He is coming yet. There is hope in the eyes of the remnant, there is the Light of Glory in the hearts of many youth, and a few that still fight with every inch of themselves for the Gospel of Grace. There is much to be done in the church!

Quaffer, Isa 42:16 has brought to mind a few other scriptures (what a wonderful promise: I will make darkness into Light!! A Way they have not known!)

Isa 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

It's funny, in Acts, before Saul meets our Lord, the scriptures talk about him going out to persecute people who follow the Way. I just realized that now!

This next scripture speaks to me personally. I feel it very keenly, and I believe it is a call into His service full time. One cannot stay in university perpetually!

Isa 62:10 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.

Praise God, I get chills just reading it.

Well, without even having made a clear point I leave these scriptures with you for a while: studying sigh: ) calls louder than the burden of darkness. I have an exam at 4:00 PM today! Pray for me, if you would, brethren. (and sistren?)

May the God of Peace grant us all a fresh sprinkling of Joy and Love, pure as poured silver.

Quaffer - Paul -Job - Jesus

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