Purgatory - Must we believe it!

jonah123 · Sep 20, 2003

you are right i think.
I think that purgatory is not really God punishing us for our sins. It is really us punishing ourselves when at the time of death we begin to really understand the the true meaning of Gods love and how unworthy we have been in our lives to accept this truly gracious gift.

MariaRegina · Sep 20, 2003

A Catholic priest once told me that when we behold Christ we will beg Him to make us whole. Christ is the Light and His purifying fire will consume our sinfulness, but only by passing through the Divine Fire. We have to be purified on this earth or in the afterlife.

Rising_Suns · Sep 20, 2003

hey chanter,
I just wanted to thank you for spurring a strand of thought in me. A few weeks ago, I began wondering about books by saints, and getting into the mind of one to better help me live a saintly life. Now that thought process has lead me to actually desire in my heart to go seek a saint--one who could be my mentor. The more I have been thinking about this over the past few weeks, the more I am planning this into my life. I have come to the realization that we really need to take ourselves out of society from time to time so we can truly focus on seeking the Lord...Since we are weak in nature, it is easy to be influenced by the corruption of society. But if we leave all that, drop everything we have, and live completely isolated away from society with people who are seeking the Lord like us, then we will have the most potential to be freed from the shackles of this world. Then after a year or so, we go back into the world refreshed in the spirit, and do the cycle over again years down the road. This seems to me to be the best way of living a saintly life in today's society. We are called to live in the world and not in isolation, so we can't leave society for the rest of our lives. But we can leave society from time to time to get recharged in the spirit if you will. Anyway, i need to stop talking. The more I think about this the more I want to get up a go do it, but I must wait till the most opportune moment, which is after I graduate and have had a job for a few years.

May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

MariaRegina · Sep 20, 2003

Rising_Suns said:
hey chanter,
I just wanted to thank you for spurring a strand of thought in me. ...

have come to the realization that we really need to take ourselves out of society from time to time so we can truly focus on seeking the Lord...Since we are weak in nature, it is easy to be influenced by the corruption of society. But if we leave all that, drop everything we have, and live completely isolated away from society with people who are seeking the Lord like us, then we will have the most potential to be freed from the shackles of this world. Then after a year or so, we go back into the world refreshed in the spirit, and do the cycle over again years down the road. This seems to me to be the best way of living a saintly life in today's society. We are called to live in the world and not in isolation, so we can't leave society for the rest of our lives. But we can leave society from time to time to get recharged in the spirit if you will. Anyway, i need to stop talking. The more I think about this the more I want to get up a go do it, but I must wait till the most opportune moment, which is after I graduate and have had a job for a few years.

May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

Dear Rising Sun:

It's always a joy to hear from you. I can feel God's spirit moving within you: joyful, non-judgmental, discerning, sober, and prayerful.

If today you hear the voice of the Lord, harden not your heart!

I know some good Catholics who dedicate one or two days a week (not including Sunday) to prayer, fasting and spiritual reading. They usually prefer Wednesdays and Fridays, as those days used to be observed within the universal Catholic Church as days of fasting and abstinence (no meat, eggs, cheese, dairy, or meat products). The Dominicans used to observe Wednesdays and Fridays as days of fast and abstinence -- they may have recently changed their constitutions -- I hope not! We need an oasis -- a place where we can go and refresh our spirits.

Even if we can just go apart for a couple of hours a day, this will help us to keep focused on the heavenly kingdom which is our true home.

Someone said: How can you share the faith, if you don't have it? Yet so many people want to evangelize without having met the basic prerequisite: a repentant heart. This is also the basic prerequisite for entering the Kingdom of God in heaven; however, we cannot repent in the next life. The time of repentance is now, while we have breath.

God bless you and keep you safe until we meet in paradise.

Yours truly in Christ,
Elizabeth

jmbasque · Oct 3, 2003

Does anybody know the two booklets by father Paul O'Sullivan?
Read me or rue it?
and "How to avoid Purgatory"

MariaRegina · Oct 3, 2003

Dear JM

Welcome to CF! Hopefully you can get an avatar with your blessings.

Sounds like you're a TAN Books fan. I have read those books, but books alone cannot save. We must walk the walk, talk the talk, etc.

Perhaps you can copy a few poignant passages and we can discuss them here.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

Benedicta00 · Oct 3, 2003

jmbasque said:
Does anybody know the two booklets by father Paul O'Sullivan?
Read me or rue it?
and "How to avoid Purgatory"

Yes and I have them both. I read all of his books and mini books and I have them if anyone wants them, Ill send them to you. I like them because they are not watered down, they teach Catholicism.

One quote from How to avoid purgatory that stays in my mind constantly is that if we aim for purgatory we may end up in hell.

Rising_Suns · Oct 3, 2003

Yes. I would like one my friend, if you wouldn't mind sending it. Thank you.

MariaRegina · Oct 3, 2003

Shelb5 said:
Yes and I have them both. I read all of his books and mini books and I have them if anyone wants them, Ill send them to you. I like them because they are not watered down, they teach Catholicism.

One quote from How to avoid purgatory that stays in my mind constantly is that if we aim for purgatory we may end up in hell.

Dear Michelle:

That is so very true! If we are complacent and just try to pass a course in college, we might just fail the final.

However, entering Heaven is an all or nothing proposition. We either pass or fail with no second chance to repeat the course.

Then Christ said to be perfect. He wants us to strive to be the best we can be.

The lukewarm or the complacent Christians are in danger of losing their salvation. We must pray for them that God will have mercy on them and save them.

Benedicta00 · Oct 4, 2003

Elizabeth,

Yep.

That is why in a small way I envy protestants because ignorance is bliss, God can not hold it against them what they do not know and to whom much has been given, much is expected, so we have a harder road in a way than they do but I know we have the grace to persevere it so we have no excuse if we fail.

MariaRegina · Oct 4, 2003

Dear Michelle,

The scary thing -- I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of a Protestant -- they do have the Bible but they pick and choose. We must pray for them. Ignorance really isn't bliss.

Benedicta00 · Oct 4, 2003

chanter said:
Dear Michelle,

The scary thing -- I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of a Protestant -- they do have the Bible but they pick and choose. We must pray for them. Ignorance really isn't bliss.

Well thank God their souls are not in our hands; we do not have to be the one to pass judgement on them. I believe many are sincere and God does have great mercy for them. I believe God is merciful to them, they have no one to tell them the truth, how could he not have anything but mercy for them.

Rising_Suns · Oct 4, 2003

just found this a little interesting....

Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 8, SubSection 4

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart 133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

voluntary ignorance seems almost synonomous with lukewarm.

Benedicta00 · Oct 4, 2003

Rising_Suns said:
just found this a little interesting....

Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 8, SubSection 4

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart 133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

voluntary ignorance seems almost synonomous with lukewarm.

But is this referring to Protestants or Catholics?

Rising_Suns · Oct 4, 2003

this is referring to humanity in general. Just thought it was applicable to this conversation, spiritually differentiaing voluntary ignorance and involuntary ignorance. Not to sound harsh, but I wonder what some Protestants would fall under.

Benedicta00 · Oct 4, 2003

Rising_Suns said:
this is referring to humanity in general. Just thought it was applicable to this conversation, spiritually differentiaing voluntary ignorance and involuntary ignorance. Not to sound harsh, but I wonder what some Protestants would fall under.

They would have to be taught and understand the difference in mortal sin and venal sin and then they would have to choose to sin mortally. The majority of them do not even know that sin offends God even still after they have been born again so I do not know how God sees them really, I can only assume it is with lots and lots of mercy because they don't know.

jmbasque · Oct 4, 2003

Thanks for all the responses on the two little booklets. Yes I read both books and I even translated them to french. They both have open up my mind and I feel strongly about praying for, offering masses to these poor souls etc etc.
I have joined the association FOSS here in Australia. You may want to check it out. We will shortly have the site in french( I have a job ahead of me as translator), spanish and polish and will shortly have audio of these booklets available on line and on cassettes. So my devotion of 2 months is picking up. If someone can direct me to other sites (religious or Purgatory) or forums where I can promote the reading to those that did not read them yet.
Many thanks and May God Bless.
My favorites quote:
"I have come to tell the world that God exists."
(Our Lady, Queen of Peace, Medjugorje June 1981)
My favorite little prayer:
I will praise Thee OGod in the sight of Thy Angels,

I will adore Thee in Thy holy Temple, and I will confess Thy Name.
Another one is simply:
Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.........
Cheers
Jean-Marc

ajayc · Oct 4, 2003

I was thinking of the verse 2Co 5:8 that says we want to be absent from this body to be present with the Lord. When a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord. The last breathe on earth will be followed by his next breathe in heaven.

Benedicta00 · Oct 4, 2003

ajayc said:
I was thinking of the verse 2Co 5:8 that says we want to be absent from this body to be present with the Lord. When a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord. The last breathe on earth will be followed by his next breathe in heaven.

The verse that comes to my mind is that the man himself will be saved but as though by fire.

MariaRegina · Oct 4, 2003

Michelle,

Where is the verse about fire found in the Scriptures?

I had a protestant ask me recently, but forgot where it was in the Bible.

Purgatory - Must we believe it!

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