Purgatory - Must we believe it!

MariaRegina · Jul 31, 2003

Dear David,

BTW: I think I have the same book you do on purgatory.

However, the priest who told me the Vatican story said that several of his priest friends had seen that very desk at the Vatican.

Is this surprising that there are many different stories of visitations when so many Catholics are forgetting to pray for the departed souls? And it's not only Catholics, but Orthodox who are becoming lax in this.

There is this Catholic woman in Los Angeles, California, who also receives nightly visitations from the poor souls. Only the most desperate abandoned poor souls visit her -- the ones for whom no one is praying. It's become her special ministry in the Church. I've seen her several times at different people's homes.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

Skripper · Jul 31, 2003

chanterhanson said:
My dearest friends,

God does work in mysterious ways.

I too became lax and stopped praying for the dead.

Then one night, just before my wedding, I had a visitation. Been very prayerful since that day. My previous Roman Catholic Confessor said it was for real.

In fact, this same Catholic priest told me of this psychologist priest in Brazil who to this day, receives a visit every night from a poor soul (like I did). Every night a different poor soul would come begging for a Mass to be offered.

God allows these visitations so that we will be reminded to pray for the faithful departed. It is a work of charity. When we pray for the poor souls, we are sanctified.

You cannot love and not grow in love.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth,

I'm not doubting what you've experienced. It very well may have been real. But a Catholic priest's say so does not make it so. Just like his denial would not make it false.

MariaRegina · Jul 31, 2003

From the OP

(5a) How are we purified on this earth?

Skripper · Jul 31, 2003

chanterhanson said:
Dear David,

BTW: I think I have the same book you do on purgatory.

However, the priest who told me the Vatican story said that several of his priest friends had seen that very desk at the Vatican.

Is this surprising that there are many different stories of visitations when so many Catholics are forgetting to pray for the departed souls? And it's not only Catholics, but Orthodox who are becoming lax in this.

There is this Catholic woman in Los Angeles, California, who also receives nightly visitations from the poor souls. Only the most desperate abandoned poor souls visit her -- the ones for whom no one is praying. It's become her special ministry in the Church. I've seen her several times at different people's homes.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth,

Althouh anecdotal evidence can be very valuable at times, it is sometimes good to seek further evidence rather than just "so and so said this or that". Even if "so and so" is a priest. Again, I'm not denying anything. Only suggesting further investigation.

MariaRegina · Jul 31, 2003

Maybe I should pray that God would grant you such a visitation. It's changed my life.

artnalex · Jul 31, 2003

Maybe I should pray that God would grant you such a visitation. It's changed my life.

No one here has doubted the veracity of your claim.

artnalex · Jul 31, 2003

... when so many Catholics are forgetting to pray for the departed souls?

How do yo know if Catholics are failing in any area? Where did you come by this information? Or is that just common knowledge?

Skripper · Jul 31, 2003

chanterhanson said:
From the OP

(5a) How are we purified on this earth?

Elizabeth,

It is very late where I am. And I am very tired and in need of sleep. So I will say goodnight with this post.

It would be my opinion, according to my understanding of Catholic teaching, that in addition to some of the things you mentioned earlier, there is an infinite myriad of different ways in which we partake of the redemptive suffering of Christ (Colossians 1:24, Romans 8: 17) that aid us in the purification/sanctification process here on earth.

God bless and good night.

Skripper · Jul 31, 2003

chanterhanson said:
Maybe I should pray that God would grant you such a visitation. It's changed my life.

Elizabeth,

As Art said, and as I thought I said, nobody is doubting the veracity of your experiences.

And I would be very honored and extremely grateful to you if you would remember me in your prayers and pray this intention for me.

Now I really am going to bed.

Good night.

MariaRegina · Jul 31, 2003

My dear Art and David,

I will pray for you that your faith and love for the poor souls will increase. Please pray for my own lack of faith.

I did not mean to imply that you did not believe my story, since I am a sinner, but perhaps your own faith will increase tremendously if you were blessed with such a visitation. However, God doesn't grant such visitations to some people knowing that they might become proud. That's always a temptation that even the Saints have to fight.

Since you asked about the Orthodox belief on the poor souls, here is an interesting passage which an Orthodox Priest sent me (there is nothing contrary to the Catholic Faith):

"I also remember the beautiful words of the Elder Zosima, from Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov. While talking to a young man while on a boat on the river, the Elder tells him, 'When you wake up each morning, make the sign of the cross and say "O Lord, have mercy on those souls who will come before Thy dread judgement throne this day!" And perhaps, somewhere far away, a person, all alone, unloved and uncared for, dies, and finds himself standing before our Saviour in Judgment; and at that moment, your prayer comes through, and God shows him mercy. If you do this, when you die, those souls will draw near to Him and say, 'Here is he who helped us, show him mercy, O Lord.'"

God bless you with sweet dreams and keep the evil one away.

Lovingly in Christ our God
Elizabeth

artnalex · Jul 31, 2003

Elizabeth,
You are welcome to pray for me as often as you want, but do not delude yourself into thinking that I have a minimal belief in "praying for the dead", as I do not have a minimal belief. I pray EVERYDAY for departed relatives, in particular a certain uncle, as well as for others to whom I am not related to. In fact, we are to pray for those in purgatory who have no one to pray for them.

I hope you understand that when someone does not come out and say "I gree with you" that they are not saying "I disagree with you". I can agree with you on various topics and feel no need to let you know which ones they are, as you will know which ones I do not agree with when I pose my questions and word it as such.

I think you to be a a very kind and Christian person, but some of your posts are worded in such a way that makes you seem a bit arrogant at times. It is probably my fault, not yours.

In either case, God bless you and me.

MariaRegina · Jul 31, 2003

artnalex said:
How do yo know if Catholics are failing in any area? Where did you come by this information? Or is that just common knowledge?

My dearest Art:

When I confessed to my priest that I have been forgetting to pray for the poor souls, he said that it is important to increase our prayers for these suffering souls because so few Catholics even believe in the existence of purgatory -- so great is erroneous teaching eroding our Catholic beliefs.

He also said that very few Catholics even confess this sin of omission.

Have you seen some of the Catholic greeting cards sent in the mail by Catholic religious orders: They show a picture of Christ holding a soul and taking it straight to heaven, with no mention of purgatory and the need for prayers.

I'm glad that the people on this OBOB forum are genuine Catholics!

Lovingly yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

MariaRegina · Jul 31, 2003

artnalex said:
Elizabeth,
You are welcome to pray for me as often as you want, but do not delude yourself into thinking that I have a minimal belief in "praying for the dead", as I do not have a minimal belief. I pray EVERYDAY for departed relatives, in particular a certain uncle, as well as for others to whom I am not related to. In fact, we are to pray for those in purgatory who have no one to pray for them.

I hope you understand that when someone does not come out and say "I gree with you" that they are not saying "I disagree with you". I can agree with you on various topics and feel no need to let you know which ones they are, as you will know which ones I do not agree with when I pose my questions and word it as such.

I think you to be a a very kind and Christian person, but some of your posts are worded in such a way that makes you seem a bit arrogant at times. It is probably my fault, not yours.

In either case, God bless you and me.

Dearest Art:

Please if it comes across that way, let me know -- put the words in bold so that I can mend my ways, as I truly don't mean it that way.

You guys are devout, but we can all use an increase in our faith and love. (Some time after that visitation, I had a great fall due to pride!)

Please pray for me a sinner.

Yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

artnalex · Jul 31, 2003

No problemo

Benedicta00 · Jul 31, 2003

chanterhanson said:
My dearest friends,

God does work in mysterious ways.

I too became lax and stopped praying for the dead.

Then one night, just before my wedding, I had a visitation. Been very prayerful since that day. My previous Roman Catholic Confessor said it was for real.

In fact, this same Catholic priest told me of this psychologist priest in Brazil who to this day, receives a visit every night from a poor soul (like I did). Every night a different poor soul would come begging for a Mass to be offered.

God allows these visitations so that we will be reminded to pray for the faithful departed. It is a work of charity. When we pray for the poor souls, we are sanctified.

You cannot love and not grow in love.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth,

I wasnt putting you down for your story, I believe those things can happen but my point was that we have our teaching and we really should focus to much on this happenings. It can be dangerous if we do. We know what the Church teaches so that is what we base or truth on. One has to scrutinize whether or not the supernatural happenings are in line with the Church, not if the Church is in line with the happenings.

Im sorry if I seemed as if I was being condescending, I personally believe that can happen.

isshinwhat · Jul 31, 2003

I noticed that you guys didn't mention how we can obtain purification on this earth.

My PC has been down for a while, but hopefully I'll be able to be back on more often. I posted this passage from a book in a thread on Christian mysticism, but I feel it belongs here, too.

God calls us in a thousand different ways in the course of a short space of time. This is an aspect of His grace - or the free, unmerited love he has for His children. One of the secrets of the interior journey is to be sensitive and responsive to the different ways He calls us. The Imitation of Christ gives us this wise insight: "If your heart is pure, every creature will be to you a mirror of God and a book of holy teaching." The real secret of the saints is to listen more attentively and respond ever more faithfully to the invitations of God in everday life.

It would be impossible to give even the most succint list of ways in which Christ summons the Christian soul in what is called the sacrament of the present moment. We have included some of the most obvious ways: the created world, the Bible, the words of great spiritual writers... the experience of the faithful soul, and, finally, marriage.

(The Journey Toward God: In the Footsteps of the Great Spiritual Writers- Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox, Chapter 11)

God Bless,

Neal

Benedicta00 · Jul 31, 2003

Missed you Neal.

Skripper · Jul 31, 2003

Neal,

Exactly . . . regarding your post. Though I'm sure you've been missed as well.

JeffreyLloyd · Jul 31, 2003

Shelb5 said:
Your insure Art?

artnalex said:
What?

Shelb5 said:
Never mind...

HAHAHA, I got it Michelle

Benedicta00 · Jul 31, 2003

And your a Yank, that's a first.

Purgatory - Must we believe it!

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