Punishment for sexual abusers

Antiscamp · Sep 18, 2008

I am currently involved in quite a debate on my blog concerning sexual abuse of children. I have sustained quite a bit of criticism since I have radical ideas about how society should punish these sexual abusers. I would like to hear your opinions.

My idea is that convicted, proven pedophiles should be cut off from society in its entirety, like be put away in prison for the rest of their lives. I also introduced an idea, that if they are to remain in society, they should be "stamped" in a way that all could see exactly what they are - sexual predators. This could easily be done with some kind of Micro Chip implant or some such method.

This debate came to be after I had watched an episode of Dr Phil that dealt with these things. Dr Phil talked about a case where the whole community had come together to get rid of a certain neighbour who was a known pedophile, served half his sentence and was again out in society. Now, American society is much more straight-forward in this respect. Me living in Scandinavia, I am required to walk on toes and argue for rehabilitation and humane treatment of criminals who have committed the worst, most unexplainable act in history - sexual crime.

My argument is that noone wants a neighbour like that. I sure wouldn't. And that noone should have to have one such either. I do not believe that we can afford rehabilitation. One single "relapse" is not an option.

I am looking forward to your input. Take care.

Ariel · Sep 18, 2008

This is a tough one.

From a Christian point of view, I have to believe that God can change anybody, even the most vile sinner--that He can take them from darkness into light, heal them, cleanse them and set them free.

As a member of society with neighbors who are possibly sexual predators, I am cognizant of the fact that if these men and woman are not shut away where they can never do harm again, then I must be vigilant that my children or grandchildren are not harmed by them.

In other words, if we can't keep them in jail for life so that they can never do harm again, then we must jail our children to keep them out of harm's way.

The problem is that many sexual predators never change. It's not that God's grace is not available to them, of course it is, but unless there is some kind of cleansing by fire, some of them will always be tempted to prey on children.

Carolyn H · Sep 18, 2008

I do not know!!!! This is a tough one. Predators are frightening to think about. They damage so many people...
ANTISCAMP said:
"... My argument is that noone wants a neighbour like that. I sure wouldn't. And that noone should have to have one such either. I do not believe that we can afford rehabilitation. One single "relapse" is not an option."

I agree!!!

ARIEL said:
"...
From a Christian point of view, I have to believe that God can change anybody, even the most vile sinner--that He can take them from darkness into light, heal them, cleanse them and set them free. "

I agree with her, also. A delemma for sure! I do not know the answer!

wanderingone · Sep 19, 2008

So you don't believe in redemption ... odd thing for a Christian.

I don't know that I am free to decide who I do and don't want as a neighbor - I can only be accountable for myself and my household. There are a lot of things I pray my neighbors are not but since the only way I can KNOW someone is an abuser is if they have actually been convicted I can never be certain any of my neighbors is someone who is a sex offender I'll choose to say I'd rather the neighbor I KNOW about than the one who hasn't been caught.

My current neighbors are actually level 2 offenders. That means they aren't considered extremely high risk. They are in a scatter site transitional housing program for persons under court supervision who are also in treatment programs for mental health problems. There are always 2 men sharing the apartment next door, most live there for less than a year so far. So far they have been pretty decent neighbors. They are quiet and keep to themselves, they say hello on the walkway and nobody has reported any problems

I can't say I jumped for joy when I found out what the program was but everyone has to live somewhere. Having lived with racist skinheads as neighbors for a couple years I can honestly say I felt much more at risk at that point than I do with my current neighbors.

Since the only convicted criminals who have their identity and their crime permanently listed on public lists are sex offenders I have to wonder why those are the only people we target for this desire to float them off on a glacier. I don't think anyone would want my daughter's father as a neighbor if they knew what a violent offender he is, only he wasn't a pedophile or sex offender, nope, he just picked me up and slammed me into a brick wall, and then tossed me unconscious into the street.. he wanted me to get hit by a car- I was also pregnant at the time. By the time he went to jail he had assaulted 2 more women, one is partially paralyzed for life. I know where he is now that he's out in the world... but his neighbors probably have no idea of the wild abuse he committed on multiple women.... or the fact that he has at least 4 children in the world who were never supported. He's got to live his life too, I hope he's found his redemption. It would be the best thing for him, for those of us he assaulted and for anyone he meets up with in the future you know?

lawtonfogle · Sep 19, 2008

Antiscamp said:
I am currently involved in quite a debate on my blog concerning sexual abuse of children. I have sustained quite a bit of criticism since I have radical ideas about how society should punish these sexual abusers. I would like to hear your opinions.

My idea is that convicted, proven pedophiles should be cut off from society in its entirety, like be put away in prison for the rest of their lives. I also introduced an idea, that if they are to remain in society, they should be "stamped" in a way that all could see exactly what they are - sexual predators. This could easily be done with some kind of Micro Chip implant or some such method.

Or you could just brand their forehead...

Anyways, you show a lack of knowledge on the subject, thought it is a common lack of knowledge many have (or don't, depending upon if one can have a lack). A pedophile is one with sexual desires aimed toward kids, but it is a child molester who actually harms kids. A bit of a difference when you go handing out punishments.

This debate came to be after I had watched an episode of Dr Phil that dealt with these things. Dr Phil talked about a case where the whole community had come together to get rid of a certain neighbour who was a known pedophile, served half his sentence and was again out in society. Now, American society is much more straight-forward in this respect. Me living in Scandinavia, I am required to walk on toes and argue for rehabilitation and humane treatment of criminals who have committed the worst, most unexplainable act in history - sexual crime.

I personally rank things like genocide higher. Anyways, if a convicted child molester is chased out of all of society, there is only one thing which he can turn to, a hatred of society.

My argument is that noone wants a neighbour like that. I sure wouldn't. And that noone should have to have one such either. I do not believe that we can afford rehabilitation. One single "relapse" is not an option.

But what about a murderer, who may have a single relapse?

I am looking forward to your input. Take care.

You too.

lawtonfogle · Sep 19, 2008

wanderingone said:
So you don't believe in redemption ... odd thing for a Christian.

I don't know that I am free to decide who I do and don't want as a neighbor - I can only be accountable for myself and my household. There are a lot of things I pray my neighbors are not but since the only way I can KNOW someone is an abuser is if they have actually been convicted I can never be certain any of my neighbors is someone who is a sex offender I'll choose to say I'd rather the neighbor I KNOW about than the one who hasn't been caught.

My current neighbors are actually level 2 offenders. That means they aren't considered extremely high risk. They are in a scatter site transitional housing program for persons under court supervision who are also in treatment programs for mental health problems. There are always 2 men sharing the apartment next door, most live there for less than a year so far. So far they have been pretty decent neighbors. They are quiet and keep to themselves, they say hello on the walkway and nobody has reported any problems

I can't say I jumped for joy when I found out what the program was but everyone has to live somewhere. Having lived with racist skinheads as neighbors for a couple years I can honestly say I felt much more at risk at that point than I do with my current neighbors.

Since the only convicted criminals who have their identity and their crime permanently listed on public lists are sex offenders I have to wonder why those are the only people we target for this desire to float them off on a glacier. I don't think anyone would want my daughter's father as a neighbor if they knew what a violent offender he is, only he wasn't a pedophile or sex offender, nope, he just picked me up and slammed me into a brick wall, and then tossed me unconscious into the street.. he wanted me to get hit by a car- I was also pregnant at the time. By the time he went to jail he had assaulted 2 more women, one is partially paralyzed for life. I know where he is now that he's out in the world... but his neighbors probably have no idea of the wild abuse he committed on multiple women.... or the fact that he has at least 4 children in the world who were never supported. He's got to live his life too, I hope he's found his redemption. It would be the best thing for him, for those of us he assaulted and for anyone he meets up with in the future you know?

This is quite sad when you realize that the sexual predator you want to brand (or implant) next door was actually a guy who got caught with is two year younger girlfriend. Just so happens he was 18 at the time.

And there are numerous true stories where this is the most basic of the plot.

WatersMoon110 · Sep 20, 2008

lawtonfogle said:
This is quite sad when you realize that the sexual predator you want to brand (or implant) next door was actually a guy who got caught with is two year younger girlfriend. Just so happens he was 18 at the time.

And there are numerous true stories where this is the most basic of the plot.

I know there was some poor 21 year old man in Ohio that drunkenly peed off his front porch, and was charged with a sex crime and labeled a sexual offender. And there have been similar stories in California and other States.

But for all of the cases like that, there are also cases like the poor girl from my high school in Ohio who was killed by a sexual predator who was out of jail. There are certainly dangerous people out there, and I'm not sure I disagree with a special license plate for sexual predators...

wanderingone · Sep 20, 2008

lawtonfogle said:
This is quite sad when you realize that the sexual predator you want to brand (or implant) next door was actually a guy who got caught with is two year younger girlfriend. Just so happens he was 18 at the time.

And there are numerous true stories where this is the most basic of the plot.

Actually someone who is a statutory offender is the least common story - they won't be considered pedophiles and they usually aren't labeled as level 2 or 3 offendors. I don't want to label or implant anyone next door. These are the guys who live there. When someone found out what the program was and started revving up for a protest I went to local precinct to inquire about it, got the information needed to help slow down and eventually end the endless stream of NIMBY emails and community organizing plans to protest these programs. I haven't looked into the individual stories of each man who lives in the next door apartment. I know the first 2 roomies included one person who was convicted of molesting a 10 year old boy when he (the offendor) was 23 and the other was convicted of a sexual offense against another adult. Basically none of the men in the program are considered to be "pedophiles" which is why they are not "level 3" offenders

What I'm not thrilled about is having a "program" next door. This means a steady stream of counselors, parole officers, nurses and program field workers in and out all day long - more when they change tenants. Every time their door opens it creates some kind of vacuum where our screen door is sucked partially open and then released so there's an endless "pfft pop"
sound some evenings.

There are pedophiles, there are sexual predators, just like there are other types of criminals. I don't agree with the obsession of these offenders that has become the national past time in many places but I do agree that there needs to be some regulation in place to protect minors from being exploited by adults. (We do that not just regarding sexual activity) because that involves making a cut off point for something like "an age of consent" there are going to be cases such as you describe. The fact is many American states would not be able to convict a person of statutory rape in the situation you describe because statutory rape laws in many states include such things as the offender must be a certain number of years older than the victim in order to be charged. Just having one person over the age of consent and one person under the age of consent does not a conviction make.

stan1980 · Sep 20, 2008

I don't know why convicted paedophiles aren't moved to places where there are no kids living. I live in an apartment block in a city centre, right next to a financial quarter, there must be over 100 flats, and I've never once seen any kids coming or going. Now I wouldn't care less if a paedophile moved next door to me, as I haven't got kids, plus if I noticed any young children entering said persons apartment, I could contact the authorities. Also, there is CCTV everywhere when I leave my block, and a security person at the entrance. Of course it isn't full proof, but it would at least make it very difficult for a person to abduct a kid or invite a child to his apartment without being spotted.

Axioma · Sep 20, 2008

stan1980 said:
I don't know why convicted paedophiles aren't moved to places where there are no kids living.

Because there are no such places. Usually what happens is that the pedophile is released from prison and immediately rearrested as soon as he walks through the gate because he's breaking the law by owning a house too close to a school somewhere.

The Nihilist · Sep 20, 2008

A former sex-offender who has done his time should be treated just like any other ex-con. Or should it be a crime for a former bank-robber to be around money?

wanderingone · Sep 20, 2008

RecoveringPhilosopher said:
A former sex-offender who has done his time should be treated just like any other ex-con. Or should it be a crime for a former bank-robber to be around money?

I agree with you. I am not a fan of all the politics around sex offenders. The ever increasing demands of the public to limit where people can live and what they can do adds to the problems all ex offenders have in locating employment and places to live.

I don't think any of it stops the true predator from committing a new crime, and I think the person who was convicted of a sexual offense and WAS rehabilitated is out of luck.

Exodus1513 · Sep 20, 2008

IMHO, I don't agree with this. While I am all for my anger rising up and grabbing pitchforks, which imho, we'd have all rights to do, for the reason Watersmoon gave I cannot justify 'marking' sex offenders.

bubblefish · Sep 21, 2008

I am unsure about this one - I was sexually assaulted as a young kid (12-15yrs) and while I want him to never be around kids again, he still does have rights and IF he was different now and regretted what he has done and won't do it again I can understand not labelling him for the rest of his life, or the people who are sentenced and labelled for ridiculous/fake reasons.

On the other hand though, I know this man - he is no different now and shouldn't be anywhere near children or people he can hurt. I would want to hope that any young people he is near would know of the dangers.

Overall, I think that the more important thing is looking at the system of conviction in the first place. These kinds of crimes are so rarely brought to trial, and even then only approximately 3% are actually found guilty and we all know that more would be guilty, there just is not enough evidence to convict. And some of the jail sentences are ridiculous as well - 3-4 years and they are free men with almost no counselling, support or testing to check they are 'safe' back in society (at least here).

Punishment for sexual abusers

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