Prophet

Yes but when it comes to the prophets who are not necessarily telling you to leave God and serve other gods then it DOES depend on his word coming to pass.

when a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that Yahweh has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. ~Deuteronomy 18:22

visionary said:

Deuteronomy 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

So even if the sign or wonder that the prophet prophesied comes to pass, that is not the test of a true prophet, what is a true prophet is his instructions to serve the Lord with all your heart and all your soul and keep the commandments, hearing His voice and serving Him.

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Agreed. This is because demons can occasionally predict things accurately.

Kevin Snow said:

Yes but when it comes to the prophets who are not necessarily telling you to leave God and serve other gods then it DOES depend on his word coming to pass.

when a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that Yahweh has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. ~Deuteronomy 18:22

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Actually, Kevin, I have thought over this question some, and I think we operate under some assumptions in this regard. There is also the issue of if those about whom the prophecy is spoken change their course of behavior. For instance, Jonah, by the leading of God, prophesied the destruction of Nineveh. But because they repented in sackcloth and ashes, that prophecy was averted from coming to pass (in the immediate).

I also think there is such a thing as a prophet growing into his gift. There are other examples I could give from scripture that make the issue not so cut and dried, but in a word I'm not totally convinced that a true prophet of God is incapable of "missing it," although I know this flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

But Jesus did warn us by telling us that not everyone who says "Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom of Heaven" Matthew 7:21. Even if they prophesy in God' name they may not be of God. We need to be careful of the manner we receive information. If the prophesy is true, praise God for the truth He allowed you to know in whatever manner given and move along.

There is a vast difference between Old and New Testament prophecy. The Old Testament prophet maintained that what he was saying was directly from the mouth of God Himself. This is why there are dire consequences for a prophet who pretends that what he is saying is from God when it is just his own thoughts. We have plenty of examples in the Old Testament of both. Although there were dire consequences for the prophet to deliberately deceive the people through false prophecy, there are examples where a true prophet was corrected and had to change his prophecy. Nathan told David at first that he could build the temple, then had to come back and say no, he couldn't because of all the blood he had shed. Isaiah prophesied that Hezekiah was going to die, then he had to go back and say that the king had 15 more years to live. Jonah was given the prophecy that Nineveh was going to destroyed in 40 days, but Nineveh repented before the Lord, and so the prophecy was changed. Joel's prophecy took 850 years to come to pass.

In New Testament prophecy, the instruction by Paul was that before a prophecy was accepted as from the Lord, it needed to be judged by responsible men that it was consistent with what they knew what was in the Scriptures, and God's plan and purpose for the Church. The only prophecy concerning the nations was given by Agabus who spoke of a famine that was coming. I believe that this was so that the believers could prepare themselves to support other churches materially and financially during the family, as the Ephesian church got together financial support and sent Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem with the money.

It is interesting that an accurate prophecy was given about Paul and Barnabas that "they are the servants of God who have come to show us the way of salvation". A prophecy like this would be readily accepted in most churches, especially the Pentecostal ones. But it turned out that it was inspired by a demon! That should arrest our attention! The fact is that the prophecy was advertising the men and not glorifying God. It was a humanistic prophecy. The alarming thing that goes on in many churches that there are many similar prophecies given, exalting men and saying what great men of God they are. I can see the comparison between the servant girl being inspired by a demon to give a prophecy exalting Paul and Barnabas and modern prophecies exalting some big name preacher.

So we need to be very careful about the prophecies we hear and accept. We must not accept a prophecy at face value just because it sounds good and gives us positive vibes up our spines. Otherwise we might be taken an unsupported blind leap of faith just because we believe a prophecy to be true when it might not be. We need to carefully examine the principles of prophecy in the Old and New Testaments, but not take an isolated reference out of its true context as some do when condemning contemporary prophecy. The "Lord, Lord" reference involves people trying to justify themselves before the Lord by what they had achieved in His name. They were trying to justify themselves through humanism instead of totally trusting in the finished work of Christ. It was not just because they were prophesying. It is the same with the condemnation of false prophecy in the Old Testament. We need to study and see what the Old Testament said about exactly what false prophecy was and how it differed from true prophecy.

Deuteronomy 13 relates back to Genesis 3, they are both dealing with the most foundational ideas of scripture.

God said to not eat from a certain tree, that was his word, his commandment.
The serpent came after, with the goal of making humanity break his commandment.

This is the story of mankind, the constant narrative of the Bible.
God told us to do something, and false prophets offer us reasons to not do what God told us.

Scripture requires us to use logic, building one concept upon the other. Like real builders we do not have the option of placing a brick in thin air.
For he says: "Law after law, law after law, line after line, line after line, a little here, a little there." (Isaiah 28:10)

God's revelation to mankind did not begin in the 1st century, it began with Adam. Ever since then he has revealed many revelations, and does not contradict himself. If he appears to be contradicting himself, if you ever find you have a choice between obeying a past revelation and obeying a new revelation, the old trumps the new because God always gets it right the first time and has no need to correct himself.

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According to Deuteronomy, prophets are not punished for giving false information about the past, the future, the spirit world, etc. but they are liable when it comes to the law.

The serpent could have appeared to Adam and Eve and told them anything about any theoretical matter, as long as he doesn't break the law or conspire to make others break the law. Similarly, if say a rabbi is in error on a matter pertaining to something theoretical it doesn't really matter as long as he is teaching proper Torah.

Oscarr said:

Nathan told David at first that he could build the temple, then had to come back and say no, he couldn't because of all the blood he had shed. Isaiah prophesied that Hezekiah was going to die, then he had to go back and say that the king had 15 more years to live. Jonah was given the prophecy that Nineveh was going to destroyed in 40 days, but Nineveh repented before the Lord, and so the prophecy was changed.

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Other good examples of what I was talking about.

Oscarr said:

The only prophecy concerning the nations was given by Agabus who spoke of a famine that was coming.

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I would differ with you, but it's not particularly important here.

Oscarr said:

It is interesting that an accurate prophecy was given about Paul and Barnabas that "they are the servants of God who have come to show us the way of salvation". A prophecy like this would be readily accepted in most churches, especially the Pentecostal ones. But it turned out that it was inspired by a demon! That should arrest our attention!

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Yes. Now frankly, when it comes to most modern "prophets," I don't really see them as prophesying much accurately. Rather they often tend to get extremely vague, or at lest sufficiently enough that it can be "fulfilled" in any number of ways through potentially a whole myriad of people, almost like playing an odds game. I suppose we'd have to talk about specific individuals to get down to brass tacks on each one.

Oscarr said:

So we need to be very careful about the prophecies we hear and accept. We must not accept a prophecy at face value just because it sounds good and gives us positive vibes up our spines. Otherwise we might be taken an unsupported blind leap of faith just because we believe a prophecy to be true when it might not be.

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I agree, Oscar. Now do you still take the position that the Holy Spirit speaks only words of encouragement in the NT era, or no? Just curious if you have altered your position back in the other direction again yet or not.

Oscarr said:

The "Lord, Lord" reference involves people trying to justify themselves before the Lord by what they had achieved in His name. They were trying to justify themselves through humanism instead of totally trusting in the finished work of Christ.

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Personally, I take that passage to be a prophetic warning to the coming of the Gnostics, who professed to follow "Christ" yet moved in demonic power, especially "exorcism" and "prophecy." I believe this parallels sorcerers, false prophets and false Christs who will arise in the end-times and do the same thing.