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So from your interpretation of context, you are saying that Paul in fact means the Roman Empire of the fist Century,
Red herrings aside, lets get back to the issue at hand.. The Gospel is everlasting, no one here is contesting that..
Back to what we were discussing..
So what context was Jesus and Paul referring to?
If the Gospel went out to the whole world, then how can it be "undone" if Paul said it went out to the entire world already?
Can you answer me on these?
Not only Paul, BUT JESUS MEANT THAT TOO in Matt 24:14
How is that Hypocritical?
You are the one claiming they meant something else, and I have shown from scripture you are incorrect.
You are the unfit debate partner here.
The Roman Empire of the 1st century.
So Jesus, according to you, didnt really mean the entire world, or all nations.
He really meant the Roman empire only?
Remember, these are your own words..
Yes:
Matt 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The word Jesus Chose to use for WORLD in this passage is the Greek word Oikoumene, Strongs #3625 and means:
the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians
the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
Jesus and Paul were talking about the SAME THING.
Paul said it had gone to the whole world in his time; sorry I don't have the tools handy for the Greek term. Col 1, 1 Tim 2.
Like I said...on Pentecost...do you read where all those Jews where from on that day? They are Jews that did not return for whatever reason. They had come to Jerusalem for the feast though...but what they heard was Peter preach the gospel.Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him(Jesus Christ), the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. (Jesus Christ)
This verse does come after everything before it. I wouldnt use this verse for proof if this verse happened and then Christ came..
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
So what is this?
Where did the remnant come from? We need to prove this already happened right?
Like I said...on Pentecost...do you read where all those Jews where from on that day? They are Jews that did not return for whatever reason. They had come to Jerusalem for the feast though...but what they heard was Peter preach the gospel.
Now "the remnant" includes them!
ChristP:
It isn't and doesn't have to be the same kind of restoration. This time it is the "times of refreshing" through repentance says Peter. Now, I'm saying this apart from the previous post that the end of 11 was saying the exodus from Egypt was the 1st one anyway. The 2nd would be the return from Babylon (Mt 1). But the feature to remember about these restoration descriptions is that they can only begin to describe the activity of the Spirit of God and about repentance and many things like that. It is not intended to be completed in terms of geography or geo-politics or buildings. Brand new things are coming, which will be utter surprises.
Do I really need to do that in light of Romans 11? How about Romans 11:5Just show me a parallel to 11:11 and we are good..
Do I really need to do that in light of Romans 11? How about Romans 11:5
5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to Gods gracious choice.
Now...let's see that this remnant where there at Pentecost...Acts 2:8-11 list where some of those Jews were from:
8 And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?
9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabswe hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.
There you go...
The only real-time events unfolding now are the 7 last plagues. The Euphrates was dry on 9/11. We are now in the early stages of the Battle of Ar Mageddon.
ChristP:
Paul didn't acknowledge a remant that was not in Christ! The only people he refers to as the remanant/elect/"us" in Rom 9-11 is people who believe all through history. He give ex. after ex. of those who do and don't, no matter their ancestry. don't expect us to find something that it is not offering! He sees no value in the ancestry toward salvation, but he does want to see them saved because of some advantages.
The remnant/elect/"us" was never confined to Jews, but given the amount of direct, written revelation to Israel, there was an advantage and a significant number. Sometimes even the "elect" didn't know they existed (11:4)!
The advantage was why there was a missionally-strategic reason for reaching as many of them as possible ("to the Jew first, and then to the Greek"): to empower the mission. Can I just say that the unstated undercurrent of Acts is that Paul wanted as many of his countrymen to be missionaries as possible, expressed finally in Acts 26 (I wish you were all like me, but not the chains).
re parallel to 11:11.
I don't see anything to add to EbedM except that the banner was for the nations. Yeah, not just Israel. Think about that; it is stated over and over in the NT, that this is what the redemptive actions of God was moving toward.
I gave it...you won't receive it...so I guess you won't believe it.I should have been more clear.
Show me the precept for Isa11:11
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
If Paul the Christian, leading Gentiles in Christ, was acknowledging a remnant that existed that wasnt in Christ, while he was a Christian, then todays Jews, are still Jewish, even tho they dont accept Christ.
Your statement that Israel can only be spiritual is fallacious.
Paul and Gentile Christians existed both at the same time a Jewish remnant did.
How do you reconcile this?
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