Promise of a Gentile Messiah

Laureate said:

Hmmm! Will the throne and He that sits upon it (The Rock & Consuming fire) pass away? Not likely.

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Which covenant promises David's throne? What does Sinai say or establish concerning any future king? Does Sinai promise the throne of David?

dfw69 said:

Will the heavens and earth pass away one day?... If so .. Will the law as well?... Seems to me Yeshua is implying this...Or is the law eternal ?.. I know Hashem makes a new covenant with the house of Israel one day.. So which covenant is eternal?... The covenant made on mount Sinai or the new covenant yet to come under the messiah?

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In like manner, the 'New Covenant' is more of a Re-Newed Covenant, in that, it was also given to the children of Israel besides the Covenant received on Mt. Horeb.

"These are the words of the Covenant which YHWH commanded Moshe to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the Covenant which he made with them in Horeb...

...Keep therefore the words of this Covenant, and perform them, that you may prosper (be blessed) in all of your endevors; Everyone of you which stand before YHWH your Elohey, your captains of your tribes, your elders, and all of your officials of Israel, your little ones, your wives, and your foreigners that are in your camp, from the hewer of wood, unto the drawer of water, that you may enter into this Covenant with YHWH your Elohey...

...Neither with you alone do I make this Covenant and Promise, but with them who stand here with us Today before YHWH our Elohey, and also those who are not with us here Today...

...Yet YHWH has not given you a heart to perceive, nor eyes to see, or ears to hear unto Today...

...Therefore YHWH your Elohey will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love YHWH your Elohey with all of your heart, and all of your soul, that you may live...

...If you will Listen unto the Voice of your Elohey, to keep his commandments, and his statutes which are written in this book of the Torah/Law, if you turn unto Elohey with all of your Heart, and with all of your Soul...

…For this commandment which I command you Today, it is not hidden from you, neither is it FAR off; It is not in Heaven, that you need to inquire, who shall go up to Heaven, and bring it back for us? that we may hear it, and perform it! But the Word is very NEAR unto you, in your mouth, and in your heart, so you can perform it". Deut. 29 & 30]

I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is FAR off, and unto him that is NEAR, says YHWH, and I will heal him. But the Wicked are like the troubled sea when it can not rest, whose waters cast up debri, and mud. [Isa. 57:19-20]

Who have said ....Our lips are our own: [Ps. 12:4]

While the predisposition of a man's heart, and the reply of the tongue belongs to YHWH. [Prv. 16:1]

Therefore it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks through you. [Matt. 10:20]

According to these passages the (New) Covenant has long been in existence, and was never exclusive to the children of Israel, yet it and the written Torah are of the same:

One is sown in your Heart, and the other on a table(t) to nurture ones Soul (mind, spirit), that we may learn to obey him with both our Heart & Soul; those who have taken hold of the (Re-)New(-ed) Covenant are those who are Near, and those who still believe their lips are their own are Far off, for Y'shua says the Kingdom is at hand, meaning both near and available, not, far off, or yet for some time to come.

YHWH clarifies, that, it is the condition of one's heart that enables (or disables) one to perceive with their heart, see with their eyes, or hear with their ears that which is otherwise already evident, and in effect.

When we do not believe him, we make him out to be a liar, and the very truth itself appears unbelievable, consequently the disbeliever is handed over to a delusion, and Elohym ensures that they are convinced in their own lie. (See 2Thesalonians 2:12)

One does not see Divinely Ordained Priests, Anoited Prophets, or Appointed Kings as before, probably because, one is expecting to see someone greater than themself (who are but) Divinely Appointed Kings, priests, and Prophets who (when standing), literally have their buttocks resting on His Throne (i.e. Heaven, our atmosphere), and their feet resting on His footstool (Earth).

Though some intetpretative, and customary laws, and practices have come to a halt, it is the Mediatorship that was...well, more or less absorbed, rather than done away with, for we were originally called Christians, because we claimed to be Anointed beings, since the anointing of Ruach H'Kodesh many of us have fallen back to sleep, thus many of us know the words, but not their meanings, (See Isa. 29); Because the Torah and the (New) Covenant are (content wise) one in the same, one can destroy a copy of the Torah (which is but a sacred photograph), but the the Torah itself is as eternal as its Author.

"The grass withers, the flower fades; but the Word of our Elohey shall stand forever.

dfw69 said:

Will the heavens and earth pass away one day?... If so .. Will the law as well?... Seems to me Yeshua is implying this...Or is the law eternal ?.. I know Hashem makes a new covenant with the house of Israel one day.. So which covenant is eternal?... The covenant made on mount Sinai or the new covenant yet to come under the messiah?

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Yes, The heavens will roll up like a scroll and the elements of the Earth will burn, and every work on Earth will be burned up.

But what is forever?

The word in itself insinuates,'' 4''

It is my belief that 4 represents a season of time, and it is hard not to look at the 4000 years from Adam unto Jesus as a season.

The Passover lam was taken and hidden from the 10th unto the 14th, and it is supposed by many that this represents 4 days of the Messiah being hidden.

When Jesus was presented to the world and found teaching in the temple, he had been hidden from his mother 4 days, and then found in the temple.

There is also an established timeframe of the years of the king, a Messiah who would come and reveal secrets of Torah after 4000 years.

When the Messiah comes, the years of this era are 2000 years, the 2000 years of the king Messiah teaching secrets to the Torah.

So I believe that when the law is said to be,'' Forever'', that forever word is also showing a certain time limit.

The Hebrew language is not like any other language, each word have numbers attached to them, and meaning behind them.

Lulav said:

But Hanibal, the Bible was written in Hebrew, not English, so forever doesn't translate out like you think.

Ever is the proper word and the translation of 'Olam' which many see as meaning everlasting, without end as in 'world without end'.

And the Passover lamb was chosen on the 10th of the first month to be brought in among the family to live with them for that time period for examination and familiarity; He was not hidden though.

The 10th day of the seventh month was the Day of Atonements

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I don't speak Hebrew, I can only say that an orthodox Jew told me this and then I asked my best friend about it. He was the official interpreter for Israel, and he was a great teacher, so much so that all my orthodox friends told me he was the best.

Both of them confirmed that 4, or 4000 years is implied in the word. It also goes along with the 2000 year time spans that show a Messiah coming after 4000 years to teach the real truth and secrets of Torah. Not that the Torah was done away with, but that a new understanding came.

the putting the lamb in the house, I knew about already, it's what I meant, that it was no longer in the field, in the world as it were, but that is just me.

Lulav said:

Hi DFW! I hope you come back, I would love to hear what you meant by this (highlighted part).

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Hello mjs thank you for invite....I will say that my views are my views of what the scriptures mean to me...and I am sharing those views in the limited knowledge that I possess...I know I don't know all things...and I like to learn as I go ..I'm not totally closed minded ..I don't believe

To answer your question sis ...Paul reveals that that which is old is ready to vanish away..implying the old law ends and the old covenant of serving in the flesh

For me the new covenant is not a renew old covenant...because there are differences...one covenant judges and condemns....the other is pure love of God...forgiveness of sins and mercy towards sinners

Jesus will is to follow his laws not Moses laws ...Jesus is greater than Moses...Moses is a servant....Jesus is a son

O, I was wrong, Lulav aint back!

Dang the bad luck,.

I am aware that,'' Forever,'' means,'' 4 days.''

At least that has been my understanding for some time, but it's not something I relate to many people.

I don't speak Hebrew, but what I was told was that it has the number,'' 4'' applied to it.

dfw69 said:

Hello mjs thank you for invite....I will say that my views are my views of what the scriptures mean to me...and I am sharing those views in the limited knowledge that I possess...I know I don't know all things...and I like to learn as I go ..I'm not totally closed minded ..I don't believe

To answer your question sis ...Paul reveals that that which is old is ready to vanish away..implying the old law ends and the old covenant of serving in the flesh

For me the new covenant is not a renew old covenant...because there are differences...one covenant judges and condemns....the other is pure love of God...forgiveness of sins and mercy towards sinners

Jesus will is to follow his laws not Moses laws ...Jesus is greater than Moses...Moses is a servant....Jesus is a son

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The only thing Fading under the Original Covenant is thd Crown of Pride worn by those who do not believe, or are unaware that the Kingdom (within you) is NEAR meaning the Torah is written (as outlined in the New Covenant promise) in our hearts, yet as psalm 12 points out, Somebody thinks their lips are their own;

'The people have become as those who argue-strive with the priests' this is The Spirit of Anti-Christ, because they prove they do not believe that Someone has Christ-the Anointing in their Fleshly heart;

Did you get the Memo, I'm pretty sure it clearly reads, No priest is allowed to enter the sanctuary to serve, Not when the Glory of Elohym is present within the abode, yet We are told that We are his Abode, thus only disbelief causes those to be handed over to what it is they do believe;

Check the New Covenant promise again, the Only thing that will NOT be done any more is Us teaching one another, yet He will teach us, and be the teacher teaching through us as He has always been, and When the cheif Shepherd comes We will receive a Crown of Glory that does not Fade:

Laureate said:

The only thing Fading under the Original Covenant is thd Crown of Pride worn by those who do not believe, or are unaware that the Kingdom (within you) is NEAR meaning the Torah is written (as outlined in the New Covenant promise) in our hearts, yet as psalm 12 points out, Somebody thinks their lips are their own;

'The people have become as those who argue-strive with the priests' this is The Spirit of Anti-Christ, because they prove they do not believe that Someone has Christ-the Anointing in their Fleshly heart;

Did you get the Memo, I'm pretty sure it clearly reads, No priest is allowed to enter the sanctuary to serve, Not when the Glory of Elohym is present within the abode, yet We are told that We are his Abode, thus only disbelief causes those to be handed over to what it is they do believe;

Check the New Covenant promise again, the Only thing that will NOT be done any more is Us teaching one another, yet He will teach us, and be the teacher teaching through us as He has always been, and When the cheif Shepherd comes We will receive a Crown of Glory that does not Fade:

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Hello laureate it is believed by us gentile Christians that yahshua fulfilled the law for us....yahshua in the flesh obtained the righteousness of serving the law of Moses

He then gives his righteousness to his followers who serve the spiritual law...he completed the law and builds his house the sons of Joseph . ..we gentile s are adopted into his house

Because the law condemned yahshua it cannot condemn his house ...it already condemned him...thus setting us free...it condemned our father once and for all sin...there is no need of a sacrifice anymore....the debts towards Moses law is paid for by the blood of hashem lamb once and forever

So we obtain righteousness and are free from serving the law of Moses.

Yahshua house is greater than Moses house ....Moses is a servant yahshua is a son ...and we are the sons of promise

dfw69 said:

He then gives his righteousness to his followers who serve the spiritual law...

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Where is it?

How do you follow this new law, where is it?


Now, what you mean, is that everyone to go to his own house?


True, the Lord will teach you the Torah.

But you have to be willing to learn it.



If you are correct saying that he has now given you something, and this something is freedom from all rules, then please produce the rules for somebody like me to follow.

Now it has fallen on your shoulders to give me a list of dos and don'ts.

Now everything is righteous?

Or is it?


There is no need for any of us to teach Torah, the spirit can sit you down on a computer and lead you places to search, but the search is within the law, and what the truth and spirit is of the law.

If you now claim that there are new rules, then tell the heathen what the rules are, or is it up to the heathen{like you making your own mind up} to make up his own Torah and law?


Do you see my point?



MY DESIRES, AND MY LIST OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND MORALS might be different than yours.


I can speak to a man who believes in Mambo, or whatever that is where a man loves a boy and a boy loves a man.

This kind of man sees no evil in his sexual relation with a Child, but if I am a Christian who has a new law of freedom, who am I to tell him what is moral or ethical, or what sin is?

If I were a Christian who had no foundation, how can I possibly look at a heathen or non believer and tell him what is right or wrong?

According to who?

Once you have taken God out of the picture, where do you decide who makes the rules?

I mean, from then on, your opinion is no different than the opinion of any pervert, of anyone who has an opinion.


You throw one single law out the window, and you throw every single one of them out the window.

You no longer speak for God at all, God has his rules of righteousness and justice, and once you do away with God's commandments, you have no foundation, and no opinion above anyone else, it is now up to every single person to decide what is right and what is wrong, and under your own standards, all of them would be righteous.

Laureate said:

The only thing Fading under the Original Covenant is thd Crown of Pride worn by those who do not believe, or are unaware that the Kingdom (within you) is NEAR meaning the Torah is written (as outlined in the New Covenant promise) in our hearts, yet as psalm 12 points out, Somebody thinks their lips are their own;

'The people have become as those who argue-strive with the priests' this is The Spirit of Anti-Christ, because they prove they do not believe that Someone has Christ-the Anointing in their Fleshly heart;

Did you get the Memo, I'm pretty sure it clearly reads, No priest is allowed to enter the sanctuary to serve, Not when the Glory of Elohym is present within the abode, yet We are told that We are his Abode, thus only disbelief causes those to be handed over to what it is they do believe;

Check the New Covenant promise again, the Only thing that will NOT be done any more is Us teaching one another, yet He will teach us, and be the teacher teaching through us as He has always been, and When the cheif Shepherd comes We will receive a Crown of Glory that does not Fade:

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Good post, I should have read this before responding.

I like the part about the glory in the sanctuary.

HannibalFlavius said:

Where is it?

How do you follow this new law, where is it?


Now, what you mean, is that everyone to go to his own house?


True, the Lord will teach you the Torah.

But you have to be willing to learn it.



If you are correct saying that he has now given you something, and this something is freedom from all rules, then please produce the rules for somebody like me to follow.

Now it has fallen on your shoulders to give me a list of dos and don'ts.

Now everything is righteous?

Or is it?


There is no need for any of us to teach Torah, the spirit can sit you down on a computer and lead you places to search, but the search is within the law, and what the truth and spirit is of the law.

If you now claim that there are new rules, then tell the heathen what the rules are, or is it up to the heathen{like you making your own mind up} to make up his own Torah and law?


Do you see my point?



MY DESIRES, AND MY LIST OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND MORALS might be different than yours.


I can speak to a man who believes in Mambo, or whatever that is where a man loves a boy and a boy loves a man.

This kind of man sees no evil in his sexual relation with a Child, but if I am a Christian who has a new law of freedom, who am I to tell him what is moral or ethical, or what sin is?

If I were a Christian who had no foundation, how can I possibly look at a heathen or non believer and tell him what is right or wrong?

According to who?

Once you have taken God out of the picture, where do you decide who makes the rules?

I mean, from then on, your opinion is no different than the opinion of any pervert, of anyone who has an opinion.


You throw one single law out the window, and you throw every single one of them out the window.

You no longer speak for God at all, God has his rules of righteousness and justice, and once you do away with God's commandments, you have no foundation, and no opinion above anyone else, it is now up to every single person to decide what is right and what is wrong, and under your own standards, all of them would be righteous.

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Ever heard the saying follow your heart?...the Laws of hashem are within you ..to love..to feel..have mercy...forgive...help..do to them as you would want done unto you


If you love mankind...you will not kill steal sleep with ones wife ect...ext....God spirit will help you forgive your wife if she has committed adultery against you...

dfw69 said:

Ever heard the saying follow your heart?...the Laws of hashem are within you ..to love..to feel..have mercy...forgive...help..do to them as you would want done unto you


If you love mankind...you will not kill steal sleep with ones wife ect...ext....God spirit will help you forgive your wife if she has committed adultery against you...

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'' The laws of Hashem are within you.''


That's the problem, When you give up the rules to then allow everyone to make their rules, what do you have?

You have a child molester making his own rules up also, and since Christianity has thrown the rules out the window, they couldn't possibly say a thing to a child molester, after all, you give him his freedom also because there are no rules, and what would make his opinion any less valid than your opinion?

Nothing, and there is nothing you can say to him after you have thrown out the laws.


What would you tell him?'

Child molest is evil?

He will say to you,'' The Lord put the laws in my heart, and what I do, does not feel evil to me.''

HannibalFlavius said:

'' The laws of Hashem are within you.''


That's the problem, When you give up the rules to then allow everyone to make their rules, what do you have?

You have a child molester making his own rules up also, and since Christianity has thrown the rules out the window, they couldn't possibly say a thing to a child molester, after all, you give him his freedom also because there are no rules, and what would make his opinion any less valid than your opinion?

Nothing, and there is nothing you can say to him after you have thrown out the laws.


What would you tell him?'

Child molest is evil?

He will say to you,'' The Lord put the laws in my heart, and what I do, does not feel evil to me.''

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If he ...the child molester ...knew the laws of yahshua....He would have known the scripture that say ...woe unto the world because of offfences...it is better to place a millstone around your neck and cast yourself in the sea....than to offend a little one.....if you right hand offends you...cut it off....it Is better to enter the kingdom of heaven maimed than to enter the lake of fire

The lake of fire is a real place and every Christian believe it is real...because yahshua said it was....

Every Christians know they have to give an account to yahshua....we reap what we sow...hashem is not mock...if you kill by the sword you must be killed by the sword

Vengeance is hashems and all the evils of this world will give an account....and some will enter eternal life and some cast into eternal separation into the lake of fire....

dfw69 said:

If he ...the child molester ...knew the laws of yahshua....He would have known the scripture that say ...woe unto the world because of offfences...it is better to place a millstone around your neck and cast yourself in the sea....than to offend a little one.....if you right hand offends you...cut it off....it Is better to enter the kingdom of heaven maimed than to enter the lake of fire

The lake of fire is a real place and every Christian believe it is real...because yahshua said it was....

Every Christians know they have to give an account to yahshua....we reap what we sow...hashem is not mock...if you kill by the sword you must be killed by the sword

Vengeance is hashems and all the evils of this world will give an account....and some will enter eternal life and some cast into eternal separation into the lake of fire....

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My point exactly, they don't know.


So please, produce said laws.


Give us a list of dos and don't and where you derive such a list.



You have to start from the beginning, sexual immorality is a good enough start.


So exactly what are your rules, and where did they come from?


Is it ok for a son to sleep with his mother when both of them desire it?

Is fornication ok now?

Is murder ok now?

Is adultery ok now?


According to you, it is.



Once you throw out the old law and claim a new one, where is it?


What are you going to say to the mother and son who have sexual relations who are a member of your church?


How can you possibly even open your eyes at them?

You can't, it is now up for them to make their own rules, just as anyone can make up their own rules, and have, and are today.

Lawlessness abounds BECAUSE Christianity has done away with the good law of the Lord, and nobody has a plumbline.



If it's good for you, it's good enough for a child molester, your opinion is no more valid than his.


We see this every single day, preachers and whole congregations calling what was unrighteous, righteous.

How were they able to take something immoral and make it moral?


Simple, because Christianity has no laws, they are lawless, admittedly lawless at that.


You have no foundation on which to stand after you have done away with the word of God.



Is it ok for a man and a woman to live together in fornication?



I would place a huge bet that you don't think anything is wrong with it, but if you even did, you wouldn't be able to tell them a thing, because you yourself are lawless, and free to do whatever your imagination desires.



People have always found a way to make their misdeeds righteous.



If they want fornication to be ok, its ok, if they want homosexuality to be righteous, '' Behold, such a righteous and sweet thing it is now.''

And not by the heathen, by Christians who have no law.



If you want to live like a king and be rich, there is millions of people out there who will follow you and produce scriptures that supposedly make you a king deserving the wealth of the world.






I always knew that the unbelievers would find a way to turn their misdeeds to righteousness, I just never expected the whole Christian community to help them, and agree with them.


But we are informed of lawlessness.

HannibalFlavius said:

So please, produce said laws.

Give us a list of dos and don't and where you derive such a list.

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The list is referred to as the Law of Liberty, a perfect law.

You can find it in James 2.

dfw69 said:

Yahshua house is greater than Moses house ....Moses is a servant yahshua is a son ...and we are the sons of promise

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Have you ever wondered why Yeshua said;

And why he was teaching that something greater than the temple 'was here'?

And why he would teach these things if his whole intent was to re-establish it? I keep hearing how if we don't follow 'the law' we are least in the kingdom, yet it seems it was Yeshua himself who taught that the very means by which were given to observe 'the law' were going to be torn down. And that his presence indicated something 'greater' than the temple with it's laws. Basically, why would Messiah re-establish something that he taught would be torn down and made inoperable? See, i'm having a hard time understanding how people, mainly Gentiles, justify railing against those who don't observe 'the law' claiming it makes them least in the kingdom when Messiah taught that the whole ministry and process of the Temple kingdom was going to be torn down? And we can't say that this wan't the intent or did not happen. Cause it plainly did. No sooner did Messiah teach these things then they happend. To this day.... Yet I'm supposed to believe that Messiah's message was to re-establish in perfection that which he laid out before, even though he taught it was going to be torn down? And that there was something greater?

IMO, it is those who teach something that Messiah never did who are not even IN the kingdom whatsoever. But that's my opinion, no?

I don't believe the law is done away with, I believe the scriptures that say it's been re-WRITTEN upon our hearts. Not re-ESTABLISHED as it was in days of OLD. It is something new that has sprung forth from the fountains of God. It's as if Israel has been born from the dead! To NEWNESS of life! Being married as a virgin to Him who has betrothed her. Even though she sinned, it was forgiven and he made her clean, by the giving of the Word. She who died has been made alive, forevermore. And the nations are blessed because of it. If you believe that is.

jamie2014 said:

The list is referred to as the Law of Liberty, a perfect law.

You can find it in James 2.

For he that said, "Do not commit adultery," said also, "Do not kill."

Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. (James 2:11-12)

​

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The liberty for parents not to stone their children when their children have disrespected them.

The disrespect is still sin, but who is going to drag their children to the streets to be stoned?


Adultery still deserves death, and pure justice would be to judge the two, and sentence them to death by stoning.

But the law of liberty says,'' forgive.'' but it doesn't change adultery from being a sin.

The law of Liberty is of love, to love thy enemies as you love yourself, to forgive them their trespasses, but sin is still sin.

The law still defines sin, and where we are free from many of the punishments of committing sins, sin is still sin, lawlessness is still lawlessness.


The law judges all people because it is a definition of sin, the only thing that has changed is the punishment for sin, not sin itself.



If we were to actually make a document of the laws of Jesus, it would be to write down every single law of Moses showing how the true meaning of those laws applied to us now.


Not only are we supposed to keep the laws of,'' Thou shalt not kill,'' Now we even have to keep the spirit of that law as it applies to the laws of liberty, that we can't even hate, because the law is of love.


This does not change sin, and just justice,.


True justice is what the law shows.

Pure justice would be to take your child to the streets and have him stoned for disrespecting you, but that law only shows justice, and what is deserving.

It is in place to show love, not punishment.

God never wanted a million sacrifices, he wanted people to learn the true love that the laws actually teach, it teaches forgiveness, and this is learned no greater place than stoning your own child who shows disrespect, because they all do, and when have we ever read of one of them being stoned?