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ALL4J3SUS said:<snip>
If evolution was true, there should be thousands (if not millions) of fossils showing the transition from ape-like creatures to humans.
Why is it that you assume that life has a purpose now? As well why can't order arise from chaos?ALL4J3SUS said:1) If man's '1st ancestor' the cell, began by chance, why is it that all life since then has order and purpose? All physical life depends on fixed laws to keep it going. Take away laws and life would not last. This order and purpose in living things today proves that it did not begin by chance millions of years ago.
All machines are created in so far as we need of their function. This again leads us back to whether life has a purpose... As well it leads us to wonder whether everly complex system requires a designer. For a counter example I cite the fractal which is something that arises purely from mathematics, it isn't really designed, but many people think they are complex.ALL4J3SUS said:2) If a complex computer must have a maker, how is it that man, who is far more complex that a mere computer, needs no maker?
Argument is vital for science to advance. If we automatically accepted anything without experimental verification then we wouldn't be doing science. We accept that the Earth orbits the sun because the current mathematical model works, that doesn't mean that the Earth orbits the sun, it is just that our current observations agree with the theory that the Earth is orbitting the sun. Fire needs oxygen because in the past it has always been observed that oxygen is present when there is fire, this doesn't mean that fire needs Oxygen though, that is impossible to prove. If your question were proof of the demise of evolution then surely Quantum Uncertainty must be false because there was argument about it from Einstein... Your logic seems to suggest that anything new is wrong because there is argument, and this is a fatal flaw.ALL4J3SUS said:3) Why is it that so many scientists who believe in evolution disagree in the way it came about? There is no disagreement among scientists about real facts of science. They do not argue about the fact that fire needs oxygen or that the earth travels around the sun.
Evolution isn't proven by arbitrary grouping, it is proven through similarity of species and simple logic: "That which is best suited to survive in a given enviroment will".ALL4J3SUS said:4) The theory of evolution is based partly on the way animals are grouped or classified. But not all scientists group animals in identical classes, nor do they all agree as to how they should be grouped. If evolution is to be proven by the orderly grouping of animals, and scientists cannot agree upon the groupings, how then can it be accepted as a fact?
Simple, if that species is in an enviroment that it is best suited to we wouldn't expect change now would we?ALL4J3SUS said:5) The earth's fossils show some change within certain species. But other species have not changed at all in millions of years. How is this to be explained?
First of all evolution doesn't deal with the beginning of life. Second of all Natural Selection isn't at all orderly, there are possible times when the best suited animal is killed off by the other animals. Finally order from chaos isn't unexpected, we have the second law of thermodynamics which is really just probability... (It wouldn't be unexpected to see a box that is half hot and half cold, just infinitely unlikely, especially in a big box) So you see that when dealing with probability there can be order in the end.ALL4J3SUS said:6) If life began by chance, why is evolution based upon an orderly selective process?
Easy. Fossils are hard to be made naturally and thus occur rarely. As well lets say that for any two fossils there must be a missing link, then between the missing link and the one of the two fossils there must be another missing link and so on and so forth until we have an infinite amount of missing links...ALL4J3SUS said:7) What really logical and satisfactory argument can be given for all the missing links between the fossils?
As well Evolution != Atheism. As well the fact of evolution which I assume you are referring to from the TO website involves observations of changes in species over time.ALL4J3SUS said:There are many more questions which the atheistic evolutionist could be asked which could not be answered with satisfaction. There questuions are enough, however, to show that evolution is only a theory and not a fact.
Mike Flynn said:As a Christian you need to admit to yourself that you don't understand how God works. None of us really do. Scientists are merely studying God's creation and God's methods in Creation.
If you say that 'if evolution is true then God is denied', then you are building your faith on the sand. You don't know how God has formed life from the dust...the Bible only says God did it. What if evolution simply describes the way that God has acheived that miracle? Will you cancel your faith because of God's own works?
Base your faith on your personal relationship with Christ. And don't believe the atheists when they say that evolution denies God. Nature can never deny God...it only proclaims his glory. Just because we understand something doesn't mean God didn't do it ALL4J3SUS.
Exactly, you don't study for a history test by reading a cookbook. Same thing here.Natro said:Exactly. In other words don't take the Bible as a science book it has always been ment to be a book of morality and how Christians should live their lives. I may not accept it but this is how I understand it.
Without evolution how did they adapt?All4J3SUS said:A better example is man himself. There are many races of men. They have different skin color, are adapted to different climates, and vary in their languages. yet they are still men.
Doesn't the Old Testament maintain that all black people are cursed and are being punished with a black appearance because of Ham's misdeeds... or something? Just for prejudice's sake, I'd rather believe that black skin colour is a product of environmental conditions as opposed to taking the Bible literally.LorentzHA said:Without evolution how did they adapt?
Exactly. I have actually heard people say it was punishment-LOL. Ironically people with darker skin tones come from places on the Earth with more intense UVR, protection afforded my melanin produced by melanocytes to protect the DNA in the nucleus of cells. By the way...you are preaching to the choirMr_Coffee said:Doesn't the Old Testament maintain that all black people are cursed and are being punished with a black appearance because of Ham's misdeeds... or something? Just for prejudice's sake, I'd rather believe that black skin colour is a product of environmental conditions as opposed to taking the Bible literally.
ALL4J3SUS said:Quote:
6) If life began by chance, why is evolution based upon an orderly selective process?
Life didn't begin by chance. Chemistry is not chance
So what, ur saying that chemistry has a mind of it's own and created life?
Actually I don't think that is what was meant...Chemistry wouldn't choose to create life, life simply formed from the set of rules describing chemical reaction.ALL4J3SUS said:Quote:
6) If life began by chance, why is evolution based upon an orderly selective process?
Life didn't begin by chance. Chemistry is not chance
So what, ur saying that chemistry has a mind of it's own and created life?
ALL4J3SUS said:So what, ur saying that chemistry has a mind of it's own and created life?
Oh woops, sorry. I meant to quote your point plus the other post that you quoted, but didn't. I was trying to suppliment your point, I knew exactly what you were getting at.LorentzHA said:Mr. Coffee-what I mean by that is I am not a creationist, if that is what you were thinking
ALL4J3SUS said:3) Why is it that so many scientists who believe in evolution disagree in the way it came about? There is no disagreement among scientists about real facts of science. They do not argue about the fact that fire needs oxygen or that the earth travels around the sun.
3) Why is it that so many scientists who believe in evolution disagree in the way it came about? There is no disagreement among scientists about real facts of science. They do not argue about the fact that fire needs oxygen or that the earth travels around the sun.
Which is it the earch travels around the sun or your not changing your mind because it would be denying God? The Bible states the earth is the center of the universe doesn't it? What about the earth being flat. Do you think the earth is a sphere or is flat? Once again don't take everything in the bible as scientific fact it was never ment to be a science book(joke:though it does make a good cook book as long as you avoid the forbidden fruit.)Umm if I changed my mind then I would be denying God.
Mr_Coffee said:Oh woops, sorry. I meant to quote your point plus the other post that you quoted, but didn't. I was trying to suppliment your point, I knew exactly what you were getting at.
I thought you where a angel not a human so you don't have to worry about that. Ohh and why is coming from a lesser animal a bad thing that is diserving of shame? Is coming from two nudist that betrayed their God because a snake told them to better then coming from apes?Humankind, I got to tell you, if I came from an ape, then I want to go back.
Your joking right?If evolution happens for the more superior species to come aboout, then i'd say humanity is not a good extension from apes. Thus, evolution screwed up.
Uhhh huhhh you rather live in ignorant bliss then being smart? What a surprise.I would rather be a "Dumb" animal than a "Smart" human.
Going back where?I am secure in the fact that Humanity is an expression of energy all its own. I don't have to worry about going back.
Realy? Proof?And, personally, there are smarter animals than humans.
What fact? I am confused here.The theory of evolution won't work on that fact alone.
So, similarities don't mean things are similar just that they are connected?(If that even makes sense)I have to comment that even though certain species share striking similarities, it is an assumption one came from the other. Look at the fact that the basis for physicality is carbon. This is an expression of how things are connected, not that one is closer to the other.
But you use dirt to make a man and the rib of man to make woman... Hmmm... My toasters broken where is that piece of wood.God used tools of the created "Earth" to create the things that were to inhabit it. You wouldn't use tree bark to fix a machine. Likewise, you wouldn't use it to make one.
Creationist have always amused me.Did you realize the similarities between animals and humankind alike, to the blade of grass which utilize intake for the transformation of food into energy. It is coincidental that apes and humans have similar bone structures and not safe to assume that humans are an expression of apes. This theory of evolution has always amused me.
Sera'naphsus
Sera'naphsus said:God used tools of the created "Earth" to create the things that were to inhabit it.
Creationists always make this choice, what a pity.Sera'naphsus said:I would rather be a "Dumb" animal than a "Smart" human.
Your God really likes coincidence, eh? He seems to opt for it over and over again.It is coincidental that apes and humans have similar bone structures and not safe to assume that humans are an expression of apes.
I do not doubt this for a minute, similarly, my 3 year old nephew was amused by a Quantum Mechanics text book.This theory of evolution has always amused me.
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