Priest having a lay profession.... Hmmm

GreekOrthodox · Feb 17, 2011

From my Lutheran days:

Lord, send us a pastor,
humble and poor.
You keep humble,
We'll keep him poor.

Philothei · Feb 17, 2011

GreekOrthodox said:
From my Lutheran days:

Lord, send us a pastor,
humble and poor.
You keep humble,
We'll keep him poor.

Good one
WELCOME To TAW Greek Orthodox

-Kyriaki- · Feb 17, 2011

I have to repeat that one to my priest on Sunday, it's gold!

musicluvr83 · Feb 17, 2011

GreekOrthodox said:
From my Lutheran days:

Lord, send us a pastor,
humble and poor.
You keep humble,
We'll keep him poor.

gzt · Feb 17, 2011

Most people these days believe there's a difference between giving somebody a loan at 6% and usury, though I suppose in the wake of the financial crisis of the last decade, the distinction can get fairly fine...

MrJim · Feb 17, 2011

Our local Orthodox priest is Associate Professor of Religion at a nearby college:

Dickinson College - Faculty Profiles

..see last profile for Fr. Theodore Pulcini

MarkRohfrietsch · Feb 19, 2011

Even within our denomination this is becoming more common.

While not an ideal situation, when this makes the difference between having a Pastor who works is far better than being a vacant Parish and having to use retired clergy when available.

I know of two in our Province, one is a former Pastor of mine, and a very dear friend.

In both situations, they have very understanding employers, and are free to minister to their parishoners in times of need as well. For these very small parishes, this is indeed a blessing.

A question... Are dual or joint parishes common in Orthodoxy; that is one Pastor serving two or more Parishes as a full time Pastor? Such is common in our denomination.

GreekOrthodox · Feb 19, 2011

Dear Mark,
I know what you mean, the best man from my wedding is an LCMS pastor who has two churches. To answer your question, no, because technically, a priest can only celebrate one liturgy a day.

Brian

E.C. · Feb 19, 2011

MarkRohfrietsch said:
A question... Are dual or joint parishes common in Orthodoxy; that is one Pastor serving two or more Parishes as a full time Pastor? Such is common in our denomination.

Typically if a priest serves his own parish and a mission they will probably have Liturgy on different days. I was looking for a parish while traveling one time where the priest served Liturgy at the mission on Saturday and served at his parish on Sunday.

katherine2001 · Feb 19, 2011

Before I moved here (Billings, MT), I lived in Helena, where I attended a mission without a priest. Once a month, we had Vespers on Friday night and liturgy on Saturday morning. The other weeks, we had Typica services on Sunday mornings. We were just thankful to have liturgy once a month. Often during Lent, they don't get liturgy at all (the priest is so busy during Lent it is hard for him to get a chance to get to Helena). The people try to drive the 60 miles to Butte as often as they can during Lent, but winter is not the best time to be driving there, and bad weather often prevents them from going there. If you think the Lenten fast is hard, try getting through it without the services and not being able to receive Communion during all of Lent. That is one of the reasons that I personally don't particularly care for Lent (though I am getting much better about it now that I am in a parish).

MarkRohfrietsch · Feb 19, 2011

GreekOrthodox said:
Dear Mark,
I know what you mean, the best man from my wedding is an LCMS pastor who has two churches. To answer your question, no, because technically, a priest can only celebrate one liturgy a day.

Brian

May I ask, what is the reasoning behind this restriction?

In our tradition Pastors may, and often do celebrate the Eucharist as required. In large parishes there may be two or three services on a Sunday. Likewise, when the Eucharist is taken to the sick and shutins, a Pastor may celebrate the Eucharistic Liturgy many times in one day.

GreekOrthodox · Feb 20, 2011

Im not sure how that particular tradition started. As I remember, its one liturgy, one altar, one priest on one day.

Plus with the length of the full divine liturgy (matins + liturgy) approaching 3 hours, its not even practical to do two services on the same day.

gzt · Feb 20, 2011

GreekOrthodox said:
Im not sure how that particular tradition started. As I remember, its one liturgy, one altar, one priest on one day.

Plus with the length of the full divine liturgy (matins + liturgy) approaching 3 hours, its not even practical to do two services on the same day.

That's St Ignatius of Antioch, if I recall correctly. It's just a pretty logical outgrowth of the way the Orthodox understand the liturgy of time. See Schmemann's "The Eucharist" for more detail, though a lot of people disagree with a lot of the historical detail of his work, I think it does a pretty good job of explaining some things. The short summary is, yes, one priest, one altar, one liturgy per day. If you want a second liturgy, need another priest and another altar. That is, in fact, how parishes that have multiple liturgies per day - which isn't frequently done - have to make it work. They have a second priest and a second altar.

The Russians ostensibly do the matins on the evening before for Sundays and vigil-rank feasts (and it's not completely necessary), and liturgy itself, done quickly, is an hour.

EDIT: And generally, what the priest does for the sick, is take reserved sacrament to the sick rather than confecting new stuff on the spot.

Joshua G. · Feb 21, 2011

choirfiend said:
I've heard someone explain that for older people and new immigrants, the idea of having to "pay" the priest is foreign, due to the priest being an employee of the state in the "old country." They believed this habit trickles down to younger cradle generations from the older. It makes some sense to me, and understanding that could help overcome peoples' reluctance to give.

That makes sense. I always wondered why the biblical concept of tithing (thst is, giving 10%, not just giving) is rarely talked about or heard of in many (most?) Orthodox parishes.

Joshua G. · Feb 21, 2011

88Devin07 said:
Yes, well and here in Greece (I'm studying here for a few months), the Priests are paid their salary by the government, which is roughly equivalent to that of a teacher.

That's a very frightening reality I wasn't aware of until Philothei's earlier post. That gives a State considerable potential power over the Church that could be used subtly and even unintentionally.

Khaleas · Feb 21, 2011

Joshua G. said:
That makes sense. I always wondered why the biblical concept of tithing (thst is, giving 10%, not just giving) is rarely talked about or heard of in many (most?) Orthodox parishes.

Oh they talk about it both my parishes... people just don't get it/don't want to get it! If people even gave remotely close to 5% we wouldn't have the money issues in our churches we do now. I think the average pledge last year was just over 800 dollars last year in our church (obviously there is many who don't give a lot of money but a lot of time and help).

This is the letter that accompanies our pledge forms:

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.
Luke 10:27
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
Yes, indeed, we are called to love God with our whole self, with our entire being, with all that we have in this life. In the Divine Liturgy we pray over and over again... Let us commend ourselves and each other and all our life unto Christ our God.
God does not ask for 1 percent, 10 percent or 50 percent, but for our whole life. That includes talents, time, energy and of course, our resources. So, the way we handle all of these is a good barometer of our spirituality because the way we manage our money, time, energy - all the gifts we received from God - indicates the level of our Christian Stewardship...of our love.
We give to God not out of a sense of duty, but out of something much higher. We give because we love. St. Paul writes: For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who diedfor them and rose again (l Corinthians 5: 14-15).
When the love of Christ is the controlling force in our lives, it is easy to give sacrificially, to pray daily, to fast, to come to church every Sunday, to witness, to defend truth, to live morally, to forgive others, to help our neighbor. But when the love of Christ is not the motivating force in our lives, then all these actions become unpleasant duties. As love makes it easy for a mother to watch over a sick child for hours on end, so love counts it a joy for us to labor, to suffer, to give for our Master and God Jesus Christ.
In short, if we love much, we give much. If we love little, we give little. Let us love God, His Church and our fellow brothers and sisters, by supporting our parish. Please complete the enclosed pledge form and mail it back to us or drop it off in the specially
marked box in the church hall. Our church cannot operate without your stewardship.
With love in Christ,

GreekOrthodox · Feb 21, 2011

One of the issues that I've had in the 2 GOA parishes that I've belonged to is that almost every social and fellowship events are "pay to play". We donate what we're able to in our offering but then for the Meatfare luncheon, we're asked to pay $20 person. That's $100 for a mac & cheese and a burger or a hotdog where everyone is already in their cliques and we eat alone, when I can take my wife & 3 kids to Friday's for that amount. So as a result, we very rarely attend social events at church.

What REALLY got me ticked was during a voters meeting, a number of people wanted to charge for the sacraments. This wasnt like a nominal charge for a wedding, which I can understand for setting up and cleaning. And this was not an honorium for the priest's time. They wanted to charge I think around $100 for a baptism, which normally happened right after the Liturgy and simply needed one of the chanters to help fill up the font. Thank heavens our priest stopped that one in its tracks.

Brian

Trying_to_be_Orthodox · Feb 21, 2011

@gzt
just for information
"The Russians ostensibly do the matins on the evening before for Sundays": depends on parish and priest. In small parish i visite are matins+liturgy around 3-4hours at saturdays morning, matins around 3hours at saturdays evening, liturgy+sanctification of waters prayer around 3-4hours at sundays morning.

@Joshua G.
"10% ...is rarely talked...":
If only any priest will speak loudly about 10%, all internet will be overposted messages like "lazy priests want to make good profit one more time". Conception of parasite existance of priests, which make money or any something material by using religion prejudices of people, is widly used in Russia. As i understand, therefore priests prefer to softly remind about parish need in parishioners material help.

See attached sample of anti-Orthodox demotivator. Inscription states: "Soul is immortal, take care about body".

Michael G · Feb 21, 2011

Lets keep the bashing of specific parishes off the table here. I can tell horror story upon horror story about a parish or two, but in the end that does no good for the Body of Christ.

Philothei · Feb 21, 2011

GreekOrthodox said:
One of the issues that I've had in the 2 GOA parishes that I've belonged to is that almost every social and fellowship events are "pay to play". We donate what we're able to in our offering but then for the Meatfare luncheon, we're asked to pay $20 person. That's $100 for a mac & cheese and a burger or a hotdog where everyone is already in their cliques and we eat alone, when I can take my wife & 3 kids to Friday's for that amount. So as a result, we very rarely attend social events at church.

Click to expand...

Hey Briar...
This thread was originally NOT about tithing but ok I do not have a problem to address...it.

There are community dinners that they charge and we have a choice to attend or send a check in as tithing If you have the problem I highlighted above (and VERY well taken as it is common in lots of GA parishes I won't be a hypocryte about it either) have you talked about it with your priest? This is the type of problem that stifles our Christian Churches and it needs to be addressed head on... :o

I woud advice you to speak up and let your Spiritual Father know how you and your family feels as that is a big strumbling block to the spiritual growth of that community Sadly we GOA presume that 'the body of Christ" will "organically" work and come together but this is something the priest and the council (who are supposed to be the spiritual persons and guides) should strive for to develop and further enhance the body of Christ.

What REALLY got me ticked was during a voters meeting, a number of people wanted to charge for the sacraments. This wasnt like a nominal charge for a wedding, which I can understand for setting up and cleaning. And this was not an honorium for the priest's time. They wanted to charge I think around $100 for a baptism, which normally happened right after the Liturgy and simply needed one of the chanters to help fill up the font. Thank heavens our priest stopped that one in its tracks.

Click to expand...

The charging for the sacraments if you look into it is mandatory for the "non-members" who do not PAY thithing ... Look it up..and chances are they do want to charge for the "lapsed members" who come three times a year and demand to get married in the church giving ziltch to the Church
If your priest ended this was probalby because the Chruch makes enough to cover for this...or indeed to charge already paid members is not right

Priest having a lay profession.... Hmmm

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