Pre-Destination?

OK drop 2 Peter 3:9, let's try 1 Timothy 2:3-4 "God our savior desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth"

And you coulda just asked.... I am a proponent of Open Theism... now please tell me how I have denied the faith, you may do so in a private message so as not to hijack the thread, or if you feel that the world needs to know i shouldn't be listened to then go ahead and call me names. To me, open theism makes the most sense for Christian living. It does not deny the authority of scripture, or God's infinite attributes (though interprets some differently) and most importantly of all we hold that Jesus Christ died for sinners and came to set the world free. Where is the heresy?? Like you I am a filthy rotten sinner who was purchased by the Lamb. Jesus Christ lives inside of me so don't tell me who I am unless you're willing to take it up with Him. Besides, I can't deny the faith (there's that P in TULIP... and if you claim i was never in it i was once a Calvinist like yourself, and even then i was thoroughly in love with Jesus). There are some things that should be debated. But when biblical evangelical Christians go around calling eachother heretics and blasphemers there is something seriously wrong.

I second that.

*Southern Baptist hat off*

I find difficulty regarding Christians who judge their brothers according to intellectual standing when faith itself transcends reason -- and such we are saved by.

Jerry_M said:

If Mr. Potato Head is a proponent of Open Theism, then he is a heretic, and has denied the faith. I haven't read enough of the other thread yet to determine whether he holds to this pernicious doctrine, or whether he is just "toying" with it.

Click to expand...

The kind thing for us to do is to actually assume the worst and then demonstrate that his position isn't even reasonable according to a fleshy understanding of the scriptures. I plan on demonstrating a thing or two to him about their "libertarian free will" which he will not be able to honestly answer from the scriptures when I have time, that is. I'm busier than a 1-legged Calvinist at a Pelagian convention right now.

If you are reading this, spud boy, I'll eventually mosey back over to put up my first post in the debate.

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.

Mr Potato Head said:

OK drop 2 Peter 3:9, let's try 1 Timothy 2:3-4 "God our savior desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth"

And you coulda just asked.... I am a proponent of Open Theism... now please tell me how I have denied the faith, you may do so in a private message so as not to hijack the thread, or if you feel that the world needs to know i shouldn't be listened to then go ahead and call me names. To me, open theism makes the most sense for Christian living. It does not deny the authority of scripture, or God's infinite attributes (though interprets some differently) and most importantly of all we hold that Jesus Christ died for sinners and came to set the world free. Where is the heresy?? Like you I am a filthy rotten sinner who was purchased by the Lamb. Jesus Christ lives inside of me so don't tell me who I am unless you're willing to take it up with Him. Besides, I can't deny the faith (there's that P in TULIP... and if you claim i was never in it i was once a Calvinist like yourself, and even then i was thoroughly in love with Jesus). There are some things that should be debated. But when biblical evangelical Christians go around calling eachother heretics and blasphemers there is something seriously wrong.

Click to expand...

Well, let's get the Open Theism "thing" out of the way first: If you can't see where Open Theism is a denial of the historic faith, I am not going to be able to show you in a forum of this type your denial of both the revelation of God's Word and the history of the faith.

Let's move on to I Timothy 2:3-4. In order to come close to believing that Paul is talking about all men, everywhere, without exception, one would have to rip these verses out of context. Can't you see that Paul is speaking about rulers as well as commoners, gentiles as well as jews? His use of "pas" is no more indicative of "all without exception" than it is when used by him in other places. Do you believe that "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me", means that a Christian can do "all things without exception" (i.e. poison his neighbors, rob banks, rape his sister, etc.)? No, it means that we can do "all kinds of things", not "all things without exception".

In the same way, God is saving "all kinds, types" of people, and wants to redeem from every nation, tribe and tongue. If He wanted to save all men without exception, then all would be saved. In fact, it is good for us to re-visit II Peter 3 here. Notice that Peter talks about the judgment to which the enemies of God are appointed. Paul speaks of the same in other places. God is saving is children, and destroying His enemies. He does so by his pleasure, and unto His glory.

Re: Open Theism, from this week's edition of my state Baptist newspaper:

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (BP) The "God" of open theism is not the God found in Scripture, a new book by a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary professor argues.

In the book "Their God is Too Small: Open Theism and the Undermining of Confidence in God" (Crossway Books) Bruce A. Ware helps Christians understand what happens when they accept the "God" of open theism.

(And then the article goes on to explain briefly just how damaging this new "itching ears" theology really is.)