Prayer and Asking

Faith Shield · Nov 2, 2014

I'll admit that I've never really had a successful prayer life. After reading many of Kenneth Hagins books, I came to see that a lot of people's asking prayers were made in fear. Hagin presented a better way of praying, by looking to the Word, what it says you already have, then confessing that. Hagin would say that it is not faith to ask God to heal you, for instance, when the Bible says we are already healed.

But the bible also has several verses that talk of asking in prayer. I used to make faith declarations in the past, but would find myself giving up after a short while. Now I'm thinking that asking could be a vital first step: a way of articulating what it is you really want; assessing what's most important to you at the moment and making this known the The Lord. I think it is important to correctly prioritise things, so we can get in step with God's will for our lives. If we ask for things with wrong desires and motives - they won't be answered. Perhaps asking is a way of getting into "first gear" with prayer - so The Lord will direct us to the correct scriptures to believe and confess?

Do you believe there is a place for asking in the prayer of faith? Is this something you do and find effective?

Optimax · Nov 3, 2014

Faith Shield said:
I'll admit that I've never really had a successful prayer life. After reading many of Kenneth Hagins books, I came to see that a lot of people's asking prayers were made in fear. Hagin presented a better way of praying, by looking to the Word, what it says you already have, then confessing that. Hagin would say that it is not faith to ask God to heal you, for instance, when the Bible says we are already healed.

But the bible also has several verses that talk of asking in prayer. I used to make faith declarations in the past, but would find myself giving up after a short while. Now I'm thinking that asking could be a vital first step: a way of articulating what it is you really want; assessing what's most important to you at the moment and making this known the The Lord. I think it is important to correctly prioritise things, so we can get in step with God's will for our lives. If we ask for things with wrong desires and motives - they won't be answered. Perhaps asking is a way of getting into "first gear" with prayer - so The Lord will direct us to the correct scriptures to believe and confess?

Do you believe there is a place for asking in the prayer of faith? Is this something you do and find effective?

Part of praying is asking.

James said this that those who do not ask, have not.

He also says some other things there.

James 4:2-3

2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not .

3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
KJV

Truthfrees · Nov 4, 2014

Faith Shield said:
I'll admit that I've never really had a successful prayer life. After reading many of Kenneth Hagins books, I came to see that a lot of people's asking prayers were made in fear. Hagin presented a better way of praying, by looking to the Word, what it says you already have, then confessing that. Hagin would say that it is not faith to ask God to heal you, for instance, when the Bible says we are already healed.

But the bible also has several verses that talk of asking in prayer. I used to make faith declarations in the past, but would find myself giving up after a short while. Now I'm thinking that asking could be a vital first step: a way of articulating what it is you really want; assessing what's most important to you at the moment and making this known the The Lord. I think it is important to correctly prioritise things, so we can get in step with God's will for our lives. If we ask for things with wrong desires and motives - they won't be answered. Perhaps asking is a way of getting into "first gear" with prayer - so The Lord will direct us to the correct scriptures to believe and confess?

Do you believe there is a place for asking in the prayer of faith? Is this something you do and find effective?

I don't know exactly what to believe for, ask for, or speak for until I've asked the Lord about my desire and His will.

I spend a lot of time asking the Lord if what I want is His will, and if so, what steps do I take to see His will manifest in my life.

"Guessing" wasted a lot of my time, and produced imperfect results.

Asking the Lord all about what, when, how, why, avoids imperfect results, and uneccessary delays.

Hagin's teaching helps you understand faith and the promises of the Lord, but to walk it out step by step, you need the Lord's specific leading (instructions).

Every need is a perfect opportunity to practice hearing the Lord on His steps to seeing your needs met by faith in Him and His words, and the specific actions, prayers, confessions He tells you to make.

now faith · Nov 23, 2014

Truthfrees said:
I don't know exactly what to believe for, ask for, or speak for until I've asked the Lord about my desire and His will.

I spend a lot of time asking the Lord if what I want is His will, and if so, what steps do I take to see His will manifest in my life.

"Guessing" wasted a lot of my time, and produced imperfect results.

Asking the Lord all about what, when, how, why, avoids imperfect results, and uneccessary delays.

Hagin's teaching helps you understand faith and the promises of the Lord, but to walk it out step by step, you need the Lord's specific leading (instructions).

Every need is a perfect opportunity to practice hearing the Lord on His steps to seeing your needs met by faith in Him and His words, and the specific actions, prayers, confessions He tells you to make.

Don't take this as a put down please.
I do not spend a lot of time praying to know God's will in the decisions of life.
The Spirit gives me discernment governing over life.

Notice I don't spend a lot of time but I do pray when I'm confused and lack understanding.
At times I want something that God doesn't recommend,I may pray but I know I am wasting time because just the doubt and needing to pray is my answer.

I have had needs and had confusion as well and God has given me a instant answer.

Only when I have no spiritual discernment over what I need want or desire,I seek in tongues.
I believe that Satan holds back blessing from us at times ,this is when your discerning of spirits becomes manifest ,then the Holy Spirit is manifested in tongues.

This will break Satan's blockade in your mind,because your mind is not involved your spirit is.
I personally believe that a spirit filled man of God has no lack of anything ,we walk by faith not by sight.
As the old hymn goes Just a closer walk with thee,,,,,

I know by God's word that it pleases him that we do not lament over things,take the step of Faith and God is pleased,if your flesh in in your walk it will not be right and you will know it.
whatever is not of Faith is sin.

hhodgson · Nov 30, 2014

=now faith;66670462]

I do not spend a lot of time praying to know God's will in the decisions of life. The Spirit gives me discernment governing over life. Notice I don't spend a lot of time but I do pray when I'm confused and lack understanding. At times I want something that God doesn't recommend, I may pray but I know I am wasting time because just the doubt and needing to pray is my answer.

I have had needs and had confusion as well and God has given me a instant answer.

Only when I have no spiritual discernment over what I need want or desire, I seek in tongues. I believe that Satan holds back blessing from us at times, this is when your discerning of spirits becomes manifest, then the Holy Spirit is manifested in tongues.

This will break Satan's blockade in your mind,because your mind is not involved your spirit is. I personally believe that a spirit filled man of God has no lack of anything, we walk by faith not by sight.

As the old hymn goes Just a closer walk with thee,,,,,

I know by God's word that it pleases him that we do not lament over things,take the step of Faith and God is pleased, if your flesh in in your walk it will not be right and you will know it. Whatever is not of Faith is sin.

Excellent nowfaith... It's about walking in LOVE and in THE BLESSING. We do not need to spend (a lot of time) searching for His will for us in our daily walk. His WILL is His WORD.

Here is just a few of His BLESSING in the WORD... about His WILL for us for every situation that stands in front of us...

"All these BLESSINGS in (Deut. 28:1-14) shall come upon you and OVERTAKE you if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord. (The voice of the Lord is His WORD).

Verse 6... "You are BLESSED going in and BLESSED going out." (Everywhere you go)

Verse 8... "You are BLESSED in ALL the work of your hands." (Everything you touch)

This is His WILL for us. If we need to spend a lot of time asking and seeking... that would lead us to the worst sin of all. The sin of unbelief. We don't need to "wait, and wait, and wait upon the Lord." What WE need to do is "park" in THE BLESSING and simply believe that NOW, we are BLESSED (everywhere) we go and (everything) we touch. By spending a (lot of time) on the seeking and the asking would (to me) be an insult to His grace and THE BLESSING. It's the (only BELIEVE) that seals the deal. Not the waiting.

Walking in... THE BLESSING,

Harry...

Juelrei · Dec 2, 2014

Faith Shield said:
I'll admit that I've never really had a successful prayer life. After reading many of Kenneth Hagins books, I came to see that a lot of people's asking prayers were made in fear. Hagin presented a better way of praying, by looking to the Word, what it says you already have, then confessing that. Hagin would say that it is not faith to ask God to heal you, for instance, when the Bible says we are already healed. But the bible also has several verses that talk of asking in prayer.

I have my own studies about the word "Ask" in regard to prayer.

Faith Shield said:
I used to make faith declarations in the past, but would find myself giving up after a short while.

There's a scripture that seems to imply that a person not think ahead of time about what they are going to say, but just trust God to inspire them.

Come to find out, the word translated "think" is in Greek "anxiously think", Jesus did not tell them not to prepare ahead of time as most people think he is saying.
We have the verse that our feet are shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace after all. We are to prepare before we go.

Faith Shield said:
Now I'm thinking that asking could be a vital first step: a way of articulating what it is you really want; assessing what's most important to you at the moment and making this known the The Lord.

I think that is involved in setting up a petition of formal request. I don't think that Hagin meant that all of that be dropped as unnecessary. I do recall a book entitled, How to write your own ticket. It addressed the matter of writing a petition of request in prayer. Not that that is the only time that he teaches on it.

Faith Shield said:
I think it is important to correctly prioritise things, so we can get in step with God's will for our lives. If we ask for things with wrong desires and motives - they won't be answered. Perhaps asking is a way of getting into "first gear" with prayer - so The Lord will direct us to the correct scriptures to believe and confess?

Do you believe there is a place for asking in the prayer of faith? Is this something you do and find effective?

I believe that there is a place for working out all that you mentioned, before you make the prayer of faith.

Bobinator · Dec 3, 2014

Faith Shield said:
I'll admit that I've never really had a successful prayer life. After reading many of Kenneth Hagins books, I came to see that a lot of people's asking prayers were made in fear. Hagin presented a better way of praying, by looking to the Word, what it says you already have, then confessing that. Hagin would say that it is not faith to ask God to heal you, for instance, when the Bible says we are already healed.

But the bible also has several verses that talk of asking in prayer. I used to make faith declarations in the past, but would find myself giving up after a short while. Now I'm thinking that asking could be a vital first step: a way of articulating what it is you really want; assessing what's most important to you at the moment and making this known the The Lord. I think it is important to correctly prioritise things, so we can get in step with God's will for our lives. If we ask for things with wrong desires and motives - they won't be answered. Perhaps asking is a way of getting into "first gear" with prayer - so The Lord will direct us to the correct scriptures to believe and confess?

Do you believe there is a place for asking in the prayer of faith? Is this something you do and find effective?

I'd like to offer some clarification. The Apostle Peter didn't say we don't need to ask for healing. The Apostle Paul himself asked the Lord 3 times to heal his infirmity that was a thorn on his side, but the Lord told him His grace was sufficient in 2Corin. 12:9.

1Peter2:24- "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

This scripture does not say were healed [past tense]. Otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten the infirmity to begin with. Peter is saying the work that granted us grace and healing was done. We still need to claim it. The same applies to salvation.

Think about the countless miracles of healing that took place after Jesus ascended. It didn't happen without asking.

now faith · Dec 3, 2014

Bobinator said:
I'd like to offer some clarification. The Apostle Peter didn't say we don't need to ask for healing. The Apostle Paul himself asked the Lord 3 times to heal his infirmity that was a thorn on his side, but the Lord told him His grace was sufficient in 2Corin. 12:9.

1Peter2:24- "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

This scripture does not say were healed [past tense]. Otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten the infirmity to begin with. Peter is saying the work that granted us grace and healing was done. We still need to claim it. The same applies to salvation.

Think about the countless miracles of healing that took place after Jesus ascended. It didn't happen without asking.

Nice post
All to often Paul's circumstance is viewed that God only heals sometimes,and it usually comes with a misconception of grace.

Christ has given by Grace all you ever need to be whole,the question is do you believe it?

Even the great Apostle Paul wondered if this thorn would be removed,and our Lord said I have given you all you will ever need to remove it.

At that point it was up to Paul to receive it,but it is not mentioned any more from that point on.

ABlessedAnomaly · Dec 3, 2014

Bobinator said:
The Apostle Peter didn't say we don't need to ask for healing. The Apostle Paul himself asked the Lord 3 times to heal his infirmity that was a thorn on his side, but the Lord told him His grace was sufficient in 2Corin. 12:9.

2 Corinthians 12:7 (NET)
even because of the extraordinary character of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not become arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to trouble me - so that I would not become arrogant.

Where, pray tell, does it say ANYWHERE in scripture this thorn is an infirmity??

It clearly says it is a messenger of Satan. You don't get healed from this, you make them flee.

The Lord's response to Paul is clear:

2 Corinthians 12:9 (NET)
But he said to me, "My grace is enough for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." So then, I will boast most gladly about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may reside in me.

What is God's grace when it comes to dealing with demons? Is it to lets them harass you?? No! Look at the CONTEXT in James about the same type of subject:

James 4:6-7 (NET)
6 But he gives greater grace. Therefore it says, " God opposes the proud , but he gives grace to the humble ." 7 So submit to God. But resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Paul told us the Lord dealt with him so he would not grow proud. James tells us God opposes the proud. Paul tells us "lest he become proud." James tells us God gives grace to the humble. In this grace we are told: resist the devil [with thorns] and he will flee.

Paul obviously did this -- he didn't grow proud, God gave him grace, and Paul NEVER mentions this oppression again. God reminded him how to deal with it.

now faith · Dec 3, 2014

Paul refers to infirmity in the same passage eluding to a conjecture since it is not
clear exactly what the thorn was, or by what means it was placed in is life.

2 Corinthians: 12. 9. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. - Bible Offline

now faith · Dec 3, 2014

The King James translation and N.E.T translation differ in the meaning between
The thorn being called a weakness in the NET and a infirmity in the KJV.

A weakness would imply a spiritual thorn.
A infirmity has a broader use,it can be a infirmity of flesh or body.

The definition is the same in modern Greek the Word αδυναμία gives equal status.

Asthenema
infirmity of error arising from weakness of mind
Lexicons - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version - Asthenema
Malakia
softness in the NT infirmity, debility, bodily weakness, sickness
Lexicons - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version - Malakia
Asthenema
infirmity of error arising from weakness of mind
Lexicons - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard - Asthenema
Malakia
softness in the NT infirmity, debility, bodily weakness, sickness
Lexicons - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard - Malakia
Astheneia
want of strength, weakness, infirmity of the body its native weakness and frailty feebleness of health or sickness of the soul want of strength and capacity requisite 1b to understand a thing 1b to do things great and glorious 1b to restrain corrupt desires 1b to bear trials and troubles
Lexicons - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version - Astheneia
Astheneia
want of strength, weakness, infirmity of the body its native weakness and frailty feebleness of health or sickness of the soul want of strength and capacity requisite 1b to understand a thing 1b to do things great and glorious 1b to restrain corrupt desires 1b to bear trials and troubles
Lexicons - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard - Astheneia

ABlessedAnomaly · Dec 3, 2014

now faith said:
Paul refers to infirmity in the same passage eluding to a conjecture since it is not
clear exactly what the thorn was, or by what means it was placed in is life.

2 Corinthians: 12. 9. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. - Bible Offline

Here's the problem:

"for my strength is made perfect in weakness." Greek word for 'weakness' is ἀσθένεια (astheneia).

"therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities." Greek word for 'infirmities" is, um, lo and behold: ἀσθένεια (astheneia).

Same word. "For my strength..." and therefore "weakness" is the correct in context choice for translation. Well, 'infirmities' is not only in the same context, it's in the same sentence! Verse 10 is in the same context. There is no reason to change the word -- except that the doctrines of the time of KJV was one of being a suffering servant. Lack was good. Sickness was God's teaching tool.

Modern translations understand this and render the verses more contextually accurate:

2 Corinthians 12:9-10 (NET)
But he said to me, My grace is enough for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. So then, I will boast most gladly about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may reside in me. 10 Therefore I am content with weaknesses, with insults, with troubles, with persecutions and difficulties for the sake of Christ, for whenever I am weak, then I am strong

(NASB)
And He has said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness. Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christs sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

In fact there are only a few, of the vintage of KJV, that use 'infirmity.'. It simply isn't correct. These verses are a juxtaposition between strength and weakness.

ABlessedAnomaly · Dec 4, 2014

now faith said:
The King James translation and N.E.T translation differ in the meaning between
The thorn being called a weakness in the NET and a infirmity in the KJV.

A weakness would imply a spiritual thorn.
A infirmity has a broader use,it can be a infirmity of flesh or body.

Whether weakness or infirmity, sickness or disease this Greek word can be both spiritual or physical. Being tired (exhausted) is not an infirmity.

Context should define the translation. And when a word is used in the same sentence it shouldn't carry double meaning.

But let's go the other way, toward 'infirmity'. See if you like it:

2 Corinthians 12:9 (context using 'infirmity' erroneously)
And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected when I make you sick.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my sicknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

How do you like it?

now faith · Dec 4, 2014

Both are considered the same in Greek translation.

Which term do we use today for illness Example:

A man has a cold would he say oh my my I suffer with weakness.

Or would he say oh my my I suffer with infirmity.

It seems the latter would be a more modern term and weakness would sound vintage.

It is quite possible the King James is more relevant for today by using infirmity as a Situation Symantec.
almost as if it was planed never to be outdated.

now faith · Dec 4, 2014

ABlessedMan said:
Whether weakness or infirmity, sickness or disease this Greek word can be both spiritual or physical. Being tired (exhausted) is not an infirmity.

Context should define the translation. And when a word is used in the same sentence it shouldn't carry double meaning.

But let's go the other way, toward 'infirmity'. See if you like it:

2 Corinthians 12:9 (context using 'infirmity' erroneously)
And He has said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected when I make you sick. Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my sicknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

How do you like it?

Not so good,you are adding a statement that was never there.

There is no statement saying God made Paul weak or sick.

For power is perfected when I make you weak?

Maybe we could do our own translation,and say humble instead.

now faith · Dec 4, 2014

I am going to quit hogging the post and allow others to reply,I enjoy your threads but so do others as well.

ABlessedAnomaly · Dec 4, 2014

now faith said:
Not so good,you are adding a statement that was never there.

There is no statement saying God made Paul weak or sick.

For power is perfected when I make you weak?

Maybe we could do our own translation,and say humble instead.

Exactly!! I said it was an erroneous translation.

The point is the context: strength versus weakness. Infirmity isn't in the context.... that would require healthy be the juxtaposition.

It simply is not there.

And this is why the modern translations have corrected the wording to weakness.

now faith · Dec 5, 2014

ABlessedMan said:
Exactly!! I said it was an erroneous translation.

The point is the context: strength versus weakness. Infirmity isn't in the context.... that would require healthy be the juxtaposition.

It simply is not there.

And this is why the modern translations have corrected the wording to weakness.

weakness [/ˈwiknəs; ˈwiknəs/] n
a fault in someone's character or in a system, organization, design etc
lack of strength, power, or influence
the state of being physically weak
lack of determination shown in someone's behaviour
the condition of not being worth a lot of money
a weakness for sth if you have a weakness for something, you like it very much even though it may not be good for you.

in·fir·mi·ty
inˈfərmədē/
noun
physical or mental weakness.
"old age and infirmity come to men and women alike"
synonyms: illness, malady, ailment, disease, disorder, sickness, affliction, complaint, indisposition, frailty, weakness;

Paul when writing the passage purposely did not mention what the thorn was.

In our modern definition of both words,infirmity is a better word for Paul describing his thorn.

Infirmity has a broader range of meaning to be construed.

If Paul would have had a weakness of the flesh such as lust, he may not have wanted that to be known yet he tells of having a problem to teach his point.

2 Corinthians: 6. 1. We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 3. Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: 4. But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

If he eluded to a weakness in his flesh,and mentioned exactly what it was;discord may have come about.

Years ago Jimmy Carter said he had lust in his heart,remember the fallout?

Paula Dean admitted to something she said years ago look at the persecution.

God may forgive you of a transgression,but the Church and the Devil never will.

So here Paul states Satan is the cause of the thorn,but is diplomatic on the description.

Infirmity with it being able to construe both physical and spiritual meaning is a better word for this passage.

Not erroneous,diplomatic and for thought on a statement.
Perfection yesterday, today,and tomorrow.

ABlessedAnomaly · Dec 5, 2014

now faith said:
Both are considered the same in Greek translation.

Which term do we use today for illness Example:

A man has a cold would he say oh my my I suffer with weakness.

Or would he say oh my my I suffer with infirmity.

It seems the latter would be a more modern term and weakness would sound vintage.

It is quite possible the King James is more relevant for today by using infirmity as a Situation Symantec.
almost as if it was planed never to be outdated.

Um, Paul was not sick.

Paul's Thorn In The Flesh - Article - Andrew Wommack Ministries
What About Paul's Thorn in the Flesh? | Ministerios Kenneth Copeland

now faith · Dec 6, 2014

I agree,and have always thought the word flesh was a metaphor as well as the thorn.

So what were we discussing?

Prayer and Asking

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