Poor Design

HRE · Dec 14, 2004

In a year of AP Bio, we hit upon numerous flaws in the human body. Each time I recognized one, I thought, "Hey, that's a good argument against ID!"

Unfortunately, I never take notes, so the only one I can recall right now is the Esophagus/Trachea combination which makes it seem like God almost wants us to choke to death.

What examples of poor design can you recall?

thirsty · Dec 14, 2004

HRE said:
In a year of AP Bio, we hit upon numerous flaws in the human body. Each time I recognized one, I thought, "Hey, that's a good argument against ID!"

Unfortunately, I never take notes, so the only one I can recall right now is the Esophagus/Trachea combination which makes it seem like God almost wants us to choke to death.

What examples of poor design can you recall?

1992 full size GMC Jimmy. Too heavy of truck on a short frame. lol

Ataradrac · Dec 14, 2004

Our whole hip/spine arrangement, which makes us suceptible to serious back injuries from relatively minor accidents.

NamesAreHardToPick · Dec 14, 2004

The immune system seems well designed at first, but isn't. Overgrowth, cancer, the B-cells and such are examples of poor design.

Hydra009 · Dec 14, 2004

Achilles tendon. An otherwise relatively minor injury can put someone out of commission for a very, very long time.

Farid · Dec 14, 2004

Did you forget that God also created the epiglottis to cover the lanyrgeal inlet when swallowing? What about the cough reflex? It is a mighty designer who made all this. Itt is a a bit hard for a newly graduating engineer to understand the design of a master engineer. Let alone a human being understanding the design of his Creator.

HRE said:
In a year of AP Bio, we hit upon numerous flaws in the human body. Each time I recognized one, I thought, "Hey, that's a good argument against ID!"

Unfortunately, I never take notes, so the only one I can recall right now is the Esophagus/Trachea combination which makes it seem like God almost wants us to choke to death.

What examples of poor design can you recall?

Farid · Dec 14, 2004

Can anyone design any better? People spend years and years studying and looking for inventions but cannot get as close to creating a single white blood cell with all its complexity.

NamesAreHardToPick said:
The immune system seems well designed at first, but isn't. Overgrowth, cancer, the B-cells and such are examples of poor design.

HRE · Dec 14, 2004

Yes, the epiglottis covers the divide, but it is so prone to error that people constantly wind up sending things down the wrong places.

NamesAreHardToPick · Dec 14, 2004

Here it is, I knew I had it somewhere. The flaws of the immune system:

1. Allergies; specifically congestion.
2. Graft rejection (ie: rejecting a donor transplant)
- Doctors have combatted this with the immo suppresants.
3. Auto Immune disease; when your immune system attacks you.
- Some types of arthritis are examples of this.
4. Cancer - your own body is growing out of control and your immune system doesn't do a thing. A well designed immune system would regulate growth and stop out of control growth like cancer.
5. B Cells - The General of the immune system, yet it is completely helpless without them.

Then you have the whole breathing/eating mechanism. It's such a joke.

Backbone is poor designed, but the backbone is better for mammals that walk on all fours.

The genetic code is totally unorganized it's a total mess, nothing about it says "order" or "design."

The reproductive system and the waste system are right together which is another joke in engineering.

The list could go on forever.

brightlights · Dec 14, 2004

I'm not very good at dancing.

Farid · Dec 14, 2004

without this part of the skeletal system, your internal vital organs, e.g. liver, heart, would be easy to attack from the back. So it was the Master Creator God's love for us to design it. Yet, we complain and question why it is that weak.

Ataradrac said:
Our whole hip/spine arrangement, which makes us suceptible to serious back injuries from relatively minor accidents.

NamesAreHardToPick · Dec 14, 2004

Farid said:
Can anyone design any better? People spend years and years studying and looking for inventions but cannot get as close to creating a single white blood cell with all its complexity.

Do you know what Genetic Engineering is? Please tell me you do, because right now there are scientists that are working on upgrading our immune system. And there are many things that we can look at now, like the flaws, and build an ever better immune system that future generations of people won't worry about the problems we've had to face.

In other words, science can offer answers to these design flaws and fix them. That is why I am a scientist and biologist, because we apply what we learn and fix it, not wonder why some "all intelligent being" did it that way.

brightlights · Dec 14, 2004

Perhaps God did not create man's body to function perfectly and sustain forever.

NamesAreHardToPick · Dec 14, 2004

brightlights said:
Perhaps God did not create man's body to function perfectly and sustain forever.

Except that is a logic fallacy because God's existence can't be proven now can it? You are answering a problem with an unsubstantiated claim. Prove God exists and then I'll believe you when you say that poor design's purpose is for us to go to Heaven someday.

In other words, back up your assertion about God existing before you try to explain away poor design. Evolution explains poor design, Intelligent Design theory is refuted by poor design.

Hydra009 · Dec 14, 2004

brightlights said:
Perhaps God did not create man's body to function perfectly and sustain forever.

Apparently not. But the point of the OP is that proponents of ID try to claim that everything is perfectly designed, yet there are obvious flaws in our own physiology.

Farid · Dec 14, 2004

True that things in the immune system or the body can go wrong. But don't you think that this too may be part of the master plan and great design, so that life goes on. Without such ailments, no Dr's would work, no pharmacists would look for drugs, no son would care for a dying mother, or a father shsow his love for a daughter that fractured her little finger. It's all about God's love somehow, when we really look for it.

NamesAreHardToPick said:
Here it is, I knew I had it somewhere. The flaws of the immune system:

1. Allergies; specifically congestion.
2. Graft rejection (ie: rejecting a donor transplant)
- Doctors have combatted this with the immo suppresants.
3. Auto Immune disease; when your immune system attacks you.
- Some types of arthritis are examples of this.
4. Cancer - your own body is growing out of control and your immune system doesn't do a thing. A well designed immune system would regulate growth and stop out of control growth like cancer.
5. B Cells - The General of the immune system, yet it is completely helpless without them.

Then you have the whole breathing/eating mechanism. It's such a joke.

Backbone is poor designed, but the backbone is better for mammals that walk on all fours.

The genetic code is totally unorganized it's a total mess, nothing about it says "order" or "design."

The reproductive system and the waste system are right together which is another joke in engineering.

The list could go on forever.

brightlights · Dec 14, 2004

NamesAreHardToPick said:
Except that is a logic fallacy because God's existence can't be proven now can it? You are answering a problem with an unsubstantiated claim. Prove God exists and then I'll believe you when you say that poor design's purpose is for us to go to Heaven someday.

In other words, back up your assertion about God existing before you try to explain away poor design. Evolution explains poor design, Intelligent Design theory is refuted by poor design.

Does this refutation of ID refute an intelligent creator? I think not necissarily.

NamesAreHardToPick · Dec 14, 2004

Farid said:
True that things in the immune system or the body can go wrong. But don't you think that this too may be part of the master plan and great design, so that life goes on. Without such ailments, no Dr's would work, no pharmacists would look for drugs, no son would care for a dying mother, or a father shsow his love for a daughter that fractured her little finger. It's all about God's love somehow, when we really look for it.

Look, I am a scientist, I study the natural world. You are presenting non-empirical evidence for God. In other words, your claim is unsubstantiated. Prove God exists first, and I'll believe you.

But do I see God in design. NO! I see accidents and misfortune, nothing about that says an all intelligent Creator made us, absolutely nothing. Now if you can present natural, empirical evidence for God - and I'd love to see it - then I will see poor design as a master plan of God. Until then, I see poor design as proof that no intelligent being made us.

NamesAreHardToPick · Dec 14, 2004

brightlights said:
Does this refutation of ID refute an intelligent creator? I think not necissarily.

Not to all, but to me yes. Poor design is proof to me that the Judeo-God doesn't exist.

But others can see it differently. Some people don't mind having "faith" that this God exists and see poor design as his purpose. I do not, however, as there is no way someone like me who studies the natural world can come to that conclusion based on the empirical evidence.

brightlights · Dec 14, 2004

NamesAreHardToPick said:
Not to all, but to me yes. Poor design is proof to me that the Judeo-God doesn't exist.

Where in the Bible does it say that man's body was made to sustain forever?

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