Pledge Unconstitutional

MyJhongFist · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by Not Prince Hamlet

And while you're at it, please address my point: what do the words "under God" add to the Pledge that you're so willing to fight to keep them in there?

   Jeff

 

 

Absolutely nothing.  I don't care if they change the pledge.  It won't change my beliefs or affect me, any more than it affected your beliefs the way it was before.

  That's the point I have been trying to make all along.

My whole line of argument has been, why was it necessary to go on some political tyrade about it?  It is wasted legislation to make someone feel better.

Not the type of thing that our soceity hinges on.

MyJhongFist · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by Mallory Knox
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

Nor has it. 

 

MyJhongFist · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by Not Prince Hamlet

Well, just because your two pet atheists don't say anything doesn't mean a) they don't mind, and b) that there aren't many many other atheists out there that do. 

 

I have no doubt of it.  But not every atheist agrees with you, either.

By the way, "my two pet atheists" are human beings with names.

seebs · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by MyJhongFist

My whole line of argument has been, why was it necessary to go on some political tyrade about it?  It is wasted legislation to make someone feel better.

Not the type of thing that our soceity hinges on.

Good point. Actually, the "Under God" thing was added in 1954, when the big enemy was "godless communists". I consider it a reminder of one of the worst periods of American history.

MyJhongFist · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by Not Prince Hamlet

Ok, since you seem to have the inside track about what America is about -- to the point where you can discard the Constitution -- do tell: what is America "all about"? 

 

 

Do you realize that I was agreeing with you?  Are you that anxious to smack at me that you don't even realize I was supporting you, by saying that person didn't have a clue about America?

Issues? :o

Not Prince Hamlet · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by MyJhongFist

 

Do you realize that I was agreeing with you?  Are you that anxious to smack at me that you don't even realize I was supporting you, by saying that person didn't have a clue about America?

Issues? :o

I apologize if it I misconstrued your comment. The formatting suggested to me that you said that I didn't know what America was all about. If this was not what you meant, I apologize.

    Jeff

 

Not Prince Hamlet · Jun 27, 2002

Now, this really makes me mad:

Speaking Thursday at the G-8 summit in Canada, [President] Bush said the ruling was "out of step with the history and traditions of America," and said it highlighted the need for "common sense judges that understand that our rights are derived from God."

This is the President of the United States speaking. Can you perhaps see why we atheists feel a little discriminated against? The President of the United States just publically stated that we have no rights except for those given to us by a god in which we don't believe.

Moreover, he just said that this is "common sense", i.e., if you don't feel this way then you must be stupid.

Unbelievable.

This is starting to feel more and more like Iran.

    Jeff

 

marathoner · Jun 27, 2002

The phone number for the "honorable" Judge Goodwin of the 9th "Circus"
(as
Rush calls it) who wrote the majority opinion in this ludicrous decision is
1-415-556-9800.
Web site for 9th Circus:

http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/

They have a "guestbook" area and would LOVE to hear from people!

http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/web/guestbook.nsf/f79e0060257719ad8825640400773d07

Not Prince Hamlet · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by marathoner
The phone number for the "honorable" Judge Goodwin of the 9th "Circus"
(as
Rush calls it) who wrote the majority opinion in this ludicrous decision is
1-415-556-9800.
Web site for 9th Circus:

http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/

They have a "guestbook" area and would LOVE to hear from people!

http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/web/guestbook.nsf/f79e0060257719ad8825640400773d07

Thank you for the link. I'll be sure my fellow atheists get it.

   Jeff

 

No gods · Jun 27, 2002

I wonder how many people would sign a petition (in light of this decision and "controversy) to "reinstate the Pledge of Allegiance to its original form".

I mean, how many people actually know the history of the pledge and its changes? Would the "lambs" sign this petition thinking it would reinstate the pledge including the "under god" addition?

Not Prince Hamlet · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by No gods
I wonder how many people would sign a petition (in light of this decision and "controversy) to "reinstate the Pledge of Allegiance to its original form".

I mean, how many people actually know the history of the pledge and its changes? Would the "lambs" sign this petition thinking it would reinstate the pledge including the "under god" addition?

Heh, I bet they would at that. That's hysterical!

  Jeff

 

eldermike · Jun 27, 2002

"Under God" is not about religion. It's about humility. It's about the greatness of a nation and our acknowledgment of our limitations in perspective. It's about something as simple as humility. We don't worship a nation, nor do we nationally worship God, but we can be humble, can't we?

What should we say? One nation "by our own hands".
Think about it.

This decision will never stand. This nation was not built by men. Or can we boast?

Blessings

Not Prince Hamlet · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by eldermike
"Under God" is not about religion. It's about humility. It's about the greatness of a nation and our acknowledgment of our limitations in perspective. It's about something as simple as humility. We don't worship a nation, nor do we nationally worship God, but we can be humble, can't we?

What should we say? One nation "by our own hands".
Think about it.

This decision will never stand. This nation was not built by men. Or can we boast?

Blessings

Why say anything at all? It's a pledge of allegiance. Who says you have to say "gosh, we're so humble" (which isn't humble, by the way; a humble person doesn't brag about being humble) in a pledge of allegiance?

Why not have the pledge the way it was originally written? Why keep in those two words that were added in as an admitted "up yours!" to the atheists?

   Jeff

 

Sauron · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by TheBear

Fox News/AP - Friday, March 01, 2002

PROVIDENCE, R.I. Firefighters who were allegedly forced by the city government to ride in a gay pride parade last year despite religious and moral objections are threatening to sue unless officials make participation in future parades voluntary.

 

Wow.  You mean the godless, communist, pinko ACLU actually filed a legal challenge on behalf of these people?

Perhaps the ACLU actually cares about the principles of law and civil liberties, and really isn't just a commie front organization like most fundamentalists like to claim.....hmmm....food for thought....

eldermike · Jun 27, 2002

Jeff,

For the reasons I mentioned. I do not know how to go deeper with this.

Blessings

Not Prince Hamlet · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by eldermike
Jeff,

For the reasons I mentioned. I do not know how to go deeper with this.

Blessings

Perhaps we should modify the Star Spangled Banner, as well?

"O'er the land of the free ... and the home  ... of the ... brave ... AND HUMBLE, too."

   Jeff

 

Sauron · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by eldermike
"Under God" is not about religion. It's about humility.

Nonsense.  It most certainly is about religion.  It was deliberately inserted during a period in our national history when we were fighting "godless communism".  Your claim is historical nonsense.

It's about the greatness of a nation and our acknowledgment of our limitations in perspective. It's about something as simple as humility. We don't worship a nation, nor do we nationally worship God, but we can be humble, can't we?

Humility does not require recognition of a deity(s).

What should we say? One nation "by our own hands".

Why not? 

Otherwise, wow about saying nothing at all - just returning the pledge to how it was before the inserted text?

Think about it.

Already have. Your explanation is historically incorrect, and the story you weave above is just a rationalization.

This decision will never stand. This nation was not built by men. Or can we boast?

Of course this nation was built by man.  How silly.

MyJhongFist · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by Not Prince Hamlet

I apologize if it I misconstrued your comment. The formatting suggested to me that you said that I didn't know what America was all about. If this was not what you meant, I apologize.

    Jeff

 

Ok.  What I was actually saying was, that the person who said "If youd don't love God and our Christian country, then get out (paraphrased)"  doesn't know what America is all about.

We have room for everyone here.  And all beliefs too.

eldermike · Jun 27, 2002

Jeff,

I gather you don't agree with me. And; in a nation "under God" that is your right. Ever thought about the ones that died so we can say these things. Ever wonder if they would agree with you? I have no way of knowing, do you?

Blessings

Not Prince Hamlet · Jun 27, 2002

Originally posted by MyJhongFist

Ok.  What I was actually saying was, that the person who said "If youd don't love God and our Christian country, then get out (paraphrased)"  doesn't know what America is all about.

We have room for everyone here.  And all beliefs too.

My apologies. I did misread your post, though I assure you it wasn't deliberate.

    Jeff

 

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