Picking and choosing sins?

Fear2Believe said:

How does that relate to what I said?

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We are not dumb animals. We are made in the image and likeness of God. And were blessed to pair off and be husband and wife.

If your issue is a ceremony, sure that’s traditional.

Rcphill said:

I am a believer and have been for 21 years, but I have some concerns regarding sins and what is accepted in the church and what is not.

To be honest, I have had same sex attractions since I was just a little kid and I have had same sex partners. About a year ago I felt called to leave that behind and remain single, but recently I have been questioning a few things.

According to the church, since the Bible says that marriage is to be between a man and a woman, then gay marriage is not allowed/is a sin. However, the Bible says that divorce (in 99% of cases) is a sin and that marrying a divorcee makes you an adulterer. Yet there are WAY MORE divorced people in the church than gay people, and this is just accepted and moved past. Why is this? Also the Bible states that gluttony is a sin, but look around you in church. What % of people are overweight or obese?!

Why is there a double standard? Why are people allowed to divorce/remarry, be overweight/obese and they still get to go to heaven yet someone who identifies as gay and marries the same sex is going to Hell? This just doesn’t make sense to me...

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It is simple: your title says the answer.


Homosexuality is a sin (abominable, read: nasty) according to the Most High God, but adultery is a breaking of the Holy Covenant under the Most High God. If we are being serious, there is no covenant to break between homosexual acts.

When people divorce under the State, that is not recognized under the Most High God. When two people join in marriage - sexual intercourse - then if one commits adultery, that covenant of marriage is broken. That is the only thing that breaks a marriage - and the Redeemer said that lust is already adultery in the heart.


Dogma and double standards will keep us in ignorance forever. If your Father has called you to do things, then do them. Even if they are extreme, it is better to "cut off your right hand" if it keeps you from being saved.

Rcphill said:

I am a believer and have been for 21 years, but I have some concerns regarding sins and what is accepted in the church and what is not.

To be honest, I have had same sex attractions since I was just a little kid and I have had same sex partners. About a year ago I felt called to leave that behind and remain single, but recently I have been questioning a few things.

According to the church, since the Bible says that marriage is to be between a man and a woman, then gay marriage is not allowed/is a sin. However, the Bible says that divorce (in 99% of cases) is a sin and that marrying a divorcee makes you an adulterer. Yet there are WAY MORE divorced people in the church than gay people, and this is just accepted and moved past. Why is this? Also the Bible states that gluttony is a sin, but look around you in church. What % of people are overweight or obese?!

Why is there a double standard? Why are people allowed to divorce/remarry, be overweight/obese and they still get to go to heaven yet someone who identifies as gay and marries the same sex is going to Hell? This just doesn’t make sense to me...

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I've noticed the double standard and it makes me very uncomfortable. I don't believe any particular sin is 'better' or 'worse' than another. I also don't feel it is my right to go around denouncing others for their sins. I say nothing because to me that is between them and God. This doesn't mean I agree with their sin I simply don't think it is my business. I have enough of my own sins to worry about let alone anybody else's. Remove the plank first in your own eye and he who is without sin cast the first stone come to mind. I think most people like to think they are not as bad as 'those' people because they do 'little' sins. I say they are wrong.

Some sins are visual some are hidden, to me sin is sin. Divorce is tricky since unless you are in the middle of it you have no idea if there was unfaithfulness in the marriage of one kind or another. Often only the person getting the divorce will know. Unfaithfulness is not just somebody having a ful blown affair, there are many shades of it and I include abuse within that. A man is told to love his wife as Christ loved the church and if he abuses her he has also become unfaithful in my view. So no, 99% would not be the figure for sinfull divorce, not even close. I would say a very large part of the time, perhaps over 80% had some kind of unfaithfulness going on.

Rcphill said:

I am a believer and have been for 21 years, but I have some concerns regarding sins and what is accepted in the church and what is not.

To be honest, I have had same sex attractions since I was just a little kid and I have had same sex partners. About a year ago I felt called to leave that behind and remain single, but recently I have been questioning a few things.

According to the church, since the Bible says that marriage is to be between a man and a woman, then gay marriage is not allowed/is a sin. However, the Bible says that divorce (in 99% of cases) is a sin and that marrying a divorcee makes you an adulterer. Yet there are WAY MORE divorced people in the church than gay people, and this is just accepted and moved past. Why is this? Also the Bible states that gluttony is a sin, but look around you in church. What % of people are overweight or obese?!

Why is there a double standard? Why are people allowed to divorce/remarry, be overweight/obese and they still get to go to heaven yet someone who identifies as gay and marries the same sex is going to Hell? This just doesn’t make sense to me...

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You have a point. Homosexuality is not the only sin. There is a great deal of hypocrisy and finger pointing that is just plain wrong. Having said that, that others seem to get away with sin does not justify our own wrong behaviour. Heterosexual relationships should be monogamous. Divorce is a vexed issue. There is a school of thought that the innocent party in a divorce should be allowed to remarry. That is my view, although I've not remarried as yet. There will be an awful lot of red faces on Judgement Day. Many so-called Christians will be found to be phoney. Forgiveness is available. Always. And that includes for homosexuals. King David was a murdering adulterer. God forgave David. David repented. God's mercies are new every morning and His love never fails. You can be delivered of same sex attraction. Lord Jesus came to set captives free. My heart goes out to you. I cannot condone sin, but I am a forgiven sinner also. Being gay is not the unpardonable sin. If you read Romans 1, you'll see that homosexuality came about because mankind rejected God. The rise of homosexuality in Western society reflects the apostasy that we've witnessed. 1 Corinthians lists a number of sinful lifestyles that will shut us out of the Kingdom of God. Homosexuality is in that list.

redleghunter said:

Imago Dei

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For the protection of both parties in the relationship. If the marriage is witnessed, by whatever ceremony or process, then neither can just walk away and pretend nothing happened.

Rcphill said:

I am a believer and have been for 21 years, but I have some concerns regarding sins and what is accepted in the church and what is not.

To be honest, I have had same sex attractions since I was just a little kid and I have had same sex partners. About a year ago I felt called to leave that behind and remain single, but recently I have been questioning a few things.

According to the church, since the Bible says that marriage is to be between a man and a woman, then gay marriage is not allowed/is a sin. However, the Bible says that divorce (in 99% of cases) is a sin and that marrying a divorcee makes you an adulterer. Yet there are WAY MORE divorced people in the church than gay people, and this is just accepted and moved past. Why is this? Also the Bible states that gluttony is a sin, but look around you in church. What % of people are overweight or obese?!

Why is there a double standard? Why are people allowed to divorce/remarry, be overweight/obese and they still get to go to heaven yet someone who identifies as gay and marries the same sex is going to Hell? This just doesn’t make sense to me...

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To some extent you are right and double standards can and do exist. But I don't believe that 99 percent of divorce and remarriage cases are sinful (I mean, often there is an innocent party though both parties could not possibly be innocent), and even when they are sinful there is nothing in Scripture which says that the remarriage needs to be broken up. Deuteronomy 24 is clear that going back to the first spouse after a divorce and after the remarriage of one or both parties in the original marriage is an abomination in God's eyes. Sometimes all a divorced and remarried person can do to show repentance in this area, assuming they were even at fault in their previous divorce, is be faithful in the marriage they are currently in. There is no reason that a faithful church can't accept people with divorce and remarriage in their past, though it should bar those who aren't being faithful in the marriage they are currently in and bar those who won't reconcile on Biblical terms from a divorce for unsatisfactory reasons when the other party is willing to reconcile on Biblical terms (I mean, when neither has already remarried). Gluttony is surely a sin whenever it is practiced, however the practice of gluttony is tough to prove. Obesity is usually caused by gluttony, but not always. So how can you know who is actually a glutton? There are possible ways to know, but it is very difficult to say for sure. Now if someone identifies him/herself as a glutton and marries a jelly donut... you get the point. Assuming someone is a glutton just because they're fat is not really any different than assuming a man is a homosexual because he has a high voice and a limp wrist. Only obvious behavior to prove he is and/or his own admission that he is so can prove he is beyond a reasonable doubt- otherwise you risk condemning the just. On the other hand you have to ex-communicate someone who is obviously ungodly and a transgressor of God's Law. The homosexual can't be a part of Christ's bride in eternity unless he repents and forsakes his homosexuality, so why should be allowed to be part of Christ's church on earth? He shouldn't be. "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord." (Proverbs 17:15) And though all willful transgression of God's Law will lead to hell in eternity, and should be punished by excommunication from the church here, no one can honestly read the Bible and say that God Himself was not extra and especially intolerant of homosexuality. It is one of the most grievous perversions in His eyes and has such a vast corrupting influence.

Fear2Believe said:

Well if you don't believe in an invalid ceremony in the first place, then all other issues that grow out of that core illusion will just disappear.

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My point was that social acceptability is NOT a good criteria for Christians to guide ourselves on, especially when it can change so rapidly. Our culture is a divorce culture, and now a homosexual marriage culture. I do not accept it but if you followed the culture alone that is where you would be. Better to be able to be counter-cultural when you need to be.

Rcphill said:

I am a believer and have been for 21 years, but I have some concerns regarding sins and what is accepted in the church and what is not.

To be honest, I have had same sex attractions since I was just a little kid and I have had same sex partners. About a year ago I felt called to leave that behind and remain single, but recently I have been questioning a few things.

According to the church, since the Bible says that marriage is to be between a man and a woman, then gay marriage is not allowed/is a sin. However, the Bible says that divorce (in 99% of cases) is a sin and that marrying a divorcee makes you an adulterer. Yet there are WAY MORE divorced people in the church than gay people, and this is just accepted and moved past. Why is this? Also the Bible states that gluttony is a sin, but look around you in church. What % of people are overweight or obese?!

Why is there a double standard? Why are people allowed to divorce/remarry, be overweight/obese and they still get to go to heaven yet someone who identifies as gay and marries the same sex is going to Hell? This just doesn’t make sense to me...

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Firstly everyone is welcome in church, we are all sinners. Any church refusing people because of their sins is wrong. I don't see a double standard in the bible or church, adultery and homosexuality are both sexual immoralities. Sins which can be forgiven through repentance.

On a secular perspective 75% of people with STDs are gay because it is mostly contracted through anal sex. The more gay people there are sleeping around the more prevalent STDs will become

I think the issue is in the promotion of the LGBT lifestyle in our society. No one goes around claiming that they're proud to divorce or be obese.
But the LGBT community go around holding these huge parades exhibiting how proud they are of it. This kind of propaganda only encourages people to live a life of sin. They are now feeding this lifestyle to children in schools. No one teaches kids to be obese or to divorce so why is this sin being taught as acceptable.

There are a lot of people who are disgusted by the thought of sodomy just as some people are disgusted by the thought of beastiality. If homosexuality is ok then is beastiality ok? Both have identical arguments. Same can be said for incest, pedophilia, necrophilia and other forms of sexual immorality. Just because you have these feelings doesn't make it ok to act on them. Some people have feelings to mass murder, is it ok to do that?

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D.A. Wright said:

Try not to mix error with truth. It detracts from an otherwise reasonable statement.

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What I meant was that I haven't seen groups of people getting together to promote being obese or divorced in pride parades like the LGBT does. But I'm satisfied with my statement if that is the only criticism of it.

Fear2Believe said:

Your God had some pretty strong emotions when he mass murdered his own beloved creation, and more than once. Since you think it's wrong for people to have feelings to mass murder, are you not creating a double standard for your own creator. Especially when he got into the head's of certain people and command them to slaughter men, women, and children?

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Comparing the will of humans to the will of God, trying to put them on equal terms...
Not for me to judge God

Fear2Believe said:

He didn't, I just read those verses in the Old Testament where he did.

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That is a quote from the Book of Mormon I believe.

Fear2Believe said:

I don't know what you're talking about here.

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YHWH never blessed a polygamous relationship. What you quoted is from Mormon doctrine.

Divorce itself is not a sin, since it actually does nothing. A civil decision cannot reverse a sacrament of the Church. Therefore a divorced person may receive the sacraments. Divorce and "remarriage" is a sinful situation since the divorced person is still married to their original spouse, and is therefore committing adultery with the person they are now living with. As such, they may not receive the sacraments of the Church. As for homosexual "marriage", it's not that it isn't "allowed", but rather that it isn't possible, since it contradicts the definition of marriage. Homosexuality itself, simply having the disorder, is not a moral issue, and a moral issue. Many homosexual persons are members in good standing of God's Church, living their lives as God calls them to live, just like the heterosexual members. Gluttony is a personal sin. People who commit this sin are not asking the Church to approve of their sin as normal or good.

The body positivity movement is about size acceptance. All sizes. There’s fat acceptance and multiple messages against body shaming.

I dont think its so much down to the church's attitude to sin as the sinners attitude to church.

I have known many gay people in the course of my life and most have a perception of the church as something that should be avoided. They always talk about being persecuted and/or victimised by the church. Divorcees dont have this same perception. You also need to take into account other aspects, such as a divorced person is not in sin for being divorced, they are in sin when they break the marriage covenant by having physical relationships with someone else which is adultery.They are of course relieved of this if their spouse has already committed adultery.

I once had a long discussion with my brother and his boyfriend about this and he was surprised by the way I explained it. At the end of the day we are all sinners, whatever that sin may be and homosexuality is only one sin. I explained that being a sinner is not something than should exclude you from church otherwise all churches would be empty, but we should strive to live a righteous life and living in known sin with no desire or intent to stop that sin is where the problem lies.

My personal view is that you should not have anyone in any position of authority in church who is in a sinful lifestyle with no intention to stop, whether that is a divorcee in a new relationship (where the spouse has not committed adultery), gay, a thief, or any other sin. If there is genuine repentance and a desire to stop then discernment and pastoral care is required.

LaBèlla said:

Because its easier to castigate the things you’re not tempted to do than address the log in your eye.

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I absolutely agree. I often get a lot of flack from people for my inclusive stance towards LGBT's. Even if I was wrong, one day I will stand before the seat of Christ and have to give account for every deed I did in the body. I'd much sooner be judged for my "mistake" in showing empathy and consideration to other's needs, rather than be told that I was too judgmental in my words and actions, and that I failed to love my neighbour as myself.

Anthony2019 said:

I'd much sooner be judged for my "mistake" in showing empathy and consideration to other's needs, rather than be told that I was too judgemental in my words and actions, and that I failed to love my neighbour as myself.

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Love won me to Him. I won’t allow sin to impede its display. The more I challenge myself to love others whose behaviors are unlike my own the closer I move to Him.

LaBèlla said:

Love won me to Him. I won’t allow sin to impede its display. The more I challenge myself to love others whose behaviors are unlike my own the closer I move to Him.

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You are a real blessing Labella. I am always encouraged by the humility and kindness in your posts which truly show the love of Christ.

Anthony2019 said:

You are a real blessing Labella. I am always encouraged by the humility and kindness in your posts which truly show the love of Christ.

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Thank you Anthony for your kindness and gentle spirit. You exude a peacefulness that is reminiscent of what I encountered at the monastery. May the Lord bathe you in His loving-kindness for all your days.