physicality problems

tmim16 · Dec 30, 2003

hey guys im new to the forum. Im really here just cuz i need some christ-centered advice, but since what im dealing with involves my girlfriend, i dont want to talk to close friends about this since it could be embarrasing for her. Basically im here for anonymous (spelling?) christian advice.

Anyways to the point. I have been dating this girl for about 3 and a half months now, and have been friends with her before that for a few years. We both know eachother really well, and it has been a huge blessing having a relationship where both of our concern is not only to grow in a relationship, but to help eachother grow in christ as well. But as you all know, you get to know somebody well and desire gets a hold of you and it becomes difficult to have that balance between love/lust. We have sort of setup our own rules around eachother, that should be pretty basic for most relationships i think; such as avoiding spending the nigh together, avoiding being in bed together for a period of time (we try to avoid this, but sometimes we go on like beach trips or camping with a group of friends), watching how much we drink around eachother (please dont start on drinking though, im here for sexual advice ). Anyways we both are growing towards eachother as brother and sister in christ, getting to know eachother more and more intimately. My view on this has always been that as a relationship grows emotionally, so does the phsysical. Now i dont believe in pre-marital sex, but I do believe in exploring eachothers bodies as you get to know them. a logical example would be as you start to like someone you kiss them, then as you get to know them more, making out, then hands start wandering etc etc... my question is basically is this a christian view of thought? Is it correct to think that as you fall in love with someone emotionally, you fall in love with the phsyical as well, and is it glorifying to God? I view sex as a physical and emotional journey, and as i become emotionally attatched, the physical feelings have increased, and things like dry-sex, or exploring underneath the clothes, have started to happen. Im really confused if i have a grasp on love and sex or if i have just let my sin control my emotion/rationallity? help!

TheFirstNoelle · Dec 30, 2003

tmim16 said:
hey guys im new to the forum. Im really here just cuz i need some christ-centered advice, but since what im dealing with involves my girlfriend, i dont want to talk to close friends about this since it could be embarrasing for her. Basically im here for anonymous (spelling?) christian advice.

Anyways to the point. I have been dating this girl for about 3 and a half months now, and have been friends with her before that for a few years. We both know eachother really well, and it has been a huge blessing having a relationship where both of our concern is not only to grow in a relationship, but to help eachother grow in christ as well. But as you all know, you get to know somebody well and desire gets a hold of you and it becomes difficult to have that balance between love/lust. We have sort of setup our own rules around eachother, that should be pretty basic for most relationships i think; such as avoiding spending the nigh together, avoiding being in bed together for a period of time (we try to avoid this, but sometimes we go on like beach trips or camping with a group of friends), watching how much we drink around eachother (please dont start on drinking though, im here for sexual advice ). Anyways we both are growing towards eachother as brother and sister in christ, getting to know eachother more and more intimately. My view on this has always been that as a relationship grows emotionally, so does the phsysical. Now i dont believe in pre-marital sex, but I do believe in exploring eachothers bodies as you get to know them. a logical example would be as you start to like someone you kiss them, then as you get to know them more, making out, then hands start wandering etc etc... my question is basically is this a christian view of thought? Is it correct to think that as you fall in love with someone emotionally, you fall in love with the phsyical as well, and is it glorifying to God? I view sex as a physical and emotional journey, and as i become emotionally attatched, the physical feelings have increased, and things like dry-sex, or exploring underneath the clothes, have started to happen. Im really confused if i have a grasp on love and sex or if i have just let my sin control my emotion/rationallity? help!

If you're in a committed relationship and you know you want to marry the person, I do not believe it is sinful to explore the other person's body. I don't think it's lust if its a person you truly love and want to commit your life to. I don't think the Bible is clear enough on this to give a definitive answer, though. i myself think that getting to know your partner physically, little by little, building that foundation, is healthy. But you should pray about it, read Scripture (don't just go by what you've been told!) and follow the leading you feel.

DMX · Dec 30, 2003

tmim16 said:
....we both are growing towards eachother as brother and sister in christ, getting to know eachother more and more intimately. My view on this has always been that as a relationship grows emotionally, so does the phsysical. Now i dont believe in pre-marital sex, but I do believe in exploring eachothers bodies as you get to know them. a logical example would be as you start to like someone you kiss them, then as you get to know them more, making out, then hands start wandering etc etc... my question is basically is this a christian view of thought? Is it correct to think that as you fall in love with someone emotionally, you fall in love with the phsyical as well, and is it glorifying to God? I view sex as a physical and emotional journey, and as i become emotionally attatched, the physical feelings have increased, and things like dry-sex, or exploring underneath the clothes, have started to happen. Im really confused if i have a grasp on love and sex or if i have just let my sin control my emotion/rationallity? help!

With all due respect, I think you are trying to rationalize your behavior. I may be very old fashioned in this regard, but I do think that in as much as the Scriptures do not speak explicitly on some issues, the substance/essence of our calling, our understanding of our relationship with God, and a desire to do the things that pleases Him ought to be our guide.

It is true that when two people are physically attracted to each other, the temptation to take things further gradually presents itself. Some would argue that as long as one is not actually having sex, then everything is fair game BUT is that reflective of the kind of thinking, and behavior, that would please the Lord? IMHO, any activity outside of marriage that is carried out with the expressed purpose/intent of provoking sexual feelings/response is dangerous. Our flesh is of such that it is never satisfied with what it gets, and with each 'encounter', it demands more. As you have already discovered, kissing leads to dry sex which leads to exploring underneath the clothes. What next? We cannot put a coal of fire in our bosom and cry out when we get burned.

I would like to encourage you to rethink your current position. Besides being self-serving, there is no virtue in engaging in dry sex and exploring underneath clothes...it simply appeals to our flesh which for the most part, has an insatiable appetite to engage in behaviors that pleases itself.

Love is a beautiful thing, and we are designed for pleasure. I do believe that God's intent is for us to fully explore those pleasures within marriage, and that outside of marriage, we rely on the Holy Spirit to help us keep our thoughts, minds, hearts, and bodies pure. Love your girlfriend for her mind, seek the will of God if she is your life long partner, and if you are both convinced you are right for each other, take the next step - get married then you can both explore to your hearts' content. It may be challenging, but one of the pegs in the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. God bless.

Éclairé · Dec 30, 2003

I think basically sex is designed by god for the deepest of love which is designed for marriage. You alone must decide what path you would like to take and why, preferably before you take a path at all.

(On a different note, drinking generally makes people horny, or easily can, regardless of love.)

daidhaid · Dec 30, 2003

Just when I was thinking Pagans are having all the fun this charming post caught my eye. Ahh the passions of youth, and it isn't even Beltain yet...

tmim16 said:
snip
My view on this has always been that as a relationship grows emotionally, so does the phsysical. Now i dont believe in pre-marital sex, but I do believe in exploring eachothers bodies as you get to know them. a logical example would be as you start to like someone you kiss them, then as you get to know them more, making out, then hands start wandering etc etc... my question is basically is this a christian view of thought? Is it correct to think that as you fall in love with someone emotionally, you fall in love with the phsyical as well, and is it glorifying to God? I view sex as a physical and emotional journey, and as i become emotionally attatched, the physical feelings have increased,
snip

sounds perfectly normal to me.
In fact I can say with assurance your gonna remember these times with great fondness.
Your only young once so enjoy it while you got it.
"and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make"

I will add that getting sexual advice from Christians seems rather bassackwards...
You'll need to filter out all the wailing about sin to get at anything practical or encouraging.
You may need to broaden your search parameters.
Have lots of fun ain't love grand...

msjones21 · Dec 30, 2003

Now i dont believe in pre-marital sex, but I do believe in exploring eachothers bodies as you get to know them. a logical example would be as you start to like someone you kiss them, then as you get to know them more, making out, then hands start wandering etc etc... my question is basically is this a christian view of thought? Is it correct to think that as you fall in love with someone emotionally, you fall in love with the phsyical as well, and is it glorifying to God?

Okay so basically you think it's okay to do everything *but* have sex before marriage? Gee, how special is your wedding night going to be? You have self-justified your actions and not only have you cheated you and the girl you claim to have intense feelings for of having a relationship edifying to Christ, you've also robbed her of her purity. You have left nothing to look forward to but intercourse and (in my humble opinion) penetration is not the most exciting part about sex. Lovemaking is a multi-faceted process. You can't dissect it into various levels of intimacy. As far as wanting to learn about each other's bodies what's so bad about learning about each other's bodies after you're married? nobody says you *have* to have sex the first night you're married. How exciting to save it all until you're married and *then* explore each other's bodies. Sorry, but the "you wouldn't buy a car unless you test drove it first would you?" approach to sex doesn't fly with God.

Im really confused if i have a grasp on love and sex or if i have just let my sin control my emotion/rationallity?

Uh, it's the latter. All I can tell you is to prayerfully re-consider your boundaries.

E-beth · Dec 30, 2003

As the OP requested 'christ-centered' advice, I am moving this thread to the Couples Forum, which is set apart for ministry to and from Christians.

desi · Dec 30, 2003

You should probably marry her if you want the relationship to progress to its impending destination in style.

tmim16 · Dec 31, 2003

thanx for the advice guys, i really do appreciate it. im not talking about having oral sex/sex, because i do view it as a part of marriage. its just that sexuality is a part of our human nature, and God has set apart sex as something for marriage. But why is it ok to pry into someones emotional being, but not ok to slowly progress phsyically? it seems like a platonistic way of thought if you ask me. The dichotemy between body and mind and the catholic view of the mind being good, body being bad (sometimes aquinas ****es me off ).

our relationship from the very beginning has been towards marriage. I feel that a relationship that is in a stalemate or isnt moving towards marriage is a sinful one. she holds to the exact same ideas. Both of us have in our minds, that we are here to serve eachother to find if we are who God wants us to be; or where maybe? I am 21 years old, and i never even kissed any of the other girls i dated in high school. Im not one to see how much i can get out of a girl. She is the only girl that ive ever kissed and im 21? I think that says alot for my respect for her, and that im not here to "rob her of her purity". I may have, im saying thats not my intent, and my concern for the matter has brought me here for opinions, not standing alone trying to figure myself and her out. But to be honest im still confused.

The real question to be asked here, is not whether i have feelings for her (sorry msjones but you dont know me or her). my question is in the sense of the body/mind dichotemy and is it real and good? I cant find a whole lot of scripture on this. i am just confused as to why noone ever said "you are going too far, you shouldnt get to know her that well" but everyone says "you are going too far, you shouldnt be doing that with her". are not the body and mind connected? arent things like kissing, hugging, touching a way to express the emotions that are in your heart? I know it is easy to slide into false desires, but if the desire is real, isnt it good? marriage is the ultimate love, and sex is the ultimate sign of that love, so for lower forms of love, are there not lower signs of that love?

/thx -- confused and waiting for replies

looksgood · Dec 31, 2003

msjones, I agree. Leting the hands wonder is not scriptural, in fact it is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless to avoid fornication let them marry.

Scripture sounds kinda strait forward to me.

Edit: As far as that touching goes let me be sure we all know he is speaking of in a sexual manner. Cause if just skin contact were wrong every profit and even jesus would have been in sin.

A kiss and hug is a show of effection, but not nessisarily one of sexual desire.

DaveKerwin · Dec 31, 2003

tmim16 said:
thanx for the advice guys, i really do appreciate it. im not talking about having oral sex/sex, because i do view it as a part of marriage. its just that sexuality is a part of our human nature, and God has set apart sex as something for marriage. But why is it ok to pry into someones emotional being, but not ok to slowly progress phsyically? it seems like a platonistic way of thought if you ask me. The dichotemy between body and mind and the catholic view of the mind being good, body being bad (sometimes aquinas ****es me off ).

our relationship from the very beginning has been towards marriage. I feel that a relationship that is in a stalemate or isnt moving towards marriage is a sinful one. she holds to the exact same ideas. Both of us have in our minds, that we are here to serve eachother to find if we are who God wants us to be; or where maybe? I am 21 years old, and i never even kissed any of the other girls i dated in high school. Im not one to see how much i can get out of a girl. She is the only girl that ive ever kissed and im 21? I think that says alot for my respect for her, and that im not here to "rob her of her purity". I may have, im saying thats not my intent, and my concern for the matter has brought me here for opinions, not standing alone trying to figure myself and her out. But to be honest im still confused.

The real question to be asked here, is not whether i have feelings for her (sorry msjones but you dont know me or her). my question is in the sense of the body/mind dichotemy and is it real and good? I cant find a whole lot of scripture on this. i am just confused as to why noone ever said "you are going too far, you shouldnt get to know her that well" but everyone says "you are going too far, you shouldnt be doing that with her". are not the body and mind connected? arent things like kissing, hugging, touching a way to express the emotions that are in your heart? I know it is easy to slide into false desires, but if the desire is real, isnt it good? marriage is the ultimate love, and sex is the ultimate sign of that love, so for lower forms of love, are there not lower signs of that love?

/thx -- confused and waiting for replies

Hey Bro, let me clear things up for you.

Hearing you, we sound a lot a like. I am 22, but am now engaged to the woman I started dating when I was 21. Please listen to my advice, I am telling you some real truth right now. Keep your hands to yourself. Dry humping and fondling are bad news. I guarantee, and I mean Guarantee, that you will regret this later in life if you do not stop. I am gonna venture to say that your physical activity is sexually pleasurable for both of you. So why exactly do you think it is right to get sexual pleasure from a woman you are nto married to? What you are doing is sinful and you need to stop. This is a battle I am currently fighting with my fiancee. We are way ready to have sex, and we really want to. But guess what, I love Christ, and he asks me to honor him withy my body. By touching her sexually, I do NOT honor God. God made sexual pleasure for marriage only. Trust my words.

Send me a private message if you want to talk on the phone, confidentially and honestly.

I have been down the wrong road in the past, and I do not want to see you or anyone else get off course. If you love and respect this woman, you will protect her from sexual immorality, which you are not doing.

physicality problems

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