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Yea I saw that brought up on the other thread.
Btw, can I get you to vote on my thread here?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7400512/
Okie dokieSorry no. Brothers apparently may be translated as brother or uncle. Sister, however, may only be translated sister (physical or spiritual), so says, Vines, Strongs, Thayers, and Harpers. So, it says Jesus had sisters, thus answering the question.
Some might twist it to that, but without any scriptural support or tradition support. So no, I wouldn't fear that.
OTOH, it may work in reverse. Besides, wasn't that gnosticism (flesh is bad?).
Sorry no. Brothers apparently may be translated as brother or uncle. Sister, however, may only be translated sister (physical or spiritual), so says, Vines, Strongs, Thayers, and Harpers. So, it says Jesus had sisters, thus answering the question.
Yes, as she says this. To add: the "active" part of the verb tense shows that this is by her action/intention. (This is why it is considered to indicate a vow; in the OT it is stated that a woman's vow to God is to be honored by her father and husband.)
Numbers 30:8
These are abbreviated lexicons. For example, the Perseus online lexicon (sometimes brutally slow, and also abbreviated so that reverse searches are necessary, and tends not to let me search the same term twice in one day) also gives kinswoman, cousin (iirc) and bride as definitions of adelphi. Cambridge University Classics dept. intends to add their database to Perseus in 2010. These databases cull the definitions in part from the extant texts that are posted on the database. Thus, as more extant Greek literature is added, the definitions can expand.
Perseus Table of Contents
Note, for example, that in extant Greek secular works, the use is also applied to neighbor (though I can't recall the author, sorry). When Plato uses the term "adelphn", in the Laws, he gives a further explanation -- of the same mother, for ex. (In Plato, because the particular meaning is explained by narrowdescription, Perseus still gives the definition "sister" as - due to Platos' narrowing - the particular textual use of adelphn is thus known; this does not mean that adelphn always means sister).
Okay, was it really a vow? Made in front of her father or husband?
What was Joseph's response, if it was? Did he allow it to stand or not?
These were outsiders speaking of Jesus. They weren't saying, those are His spiritual sisters; those weren't terms of endearment applied to those with Him. They were simply saying, His sisters (number A, the primary meaning).
I will add, however, that those outsiders may simply have been wrong. I use this argument myself elsewhere ... except again, that is not the context of their statement. They weren't saying spiritual sisters or refering to endearments.
Wow! that is all greek to me ehehe...........This is from Perseus
ἀδελφ-ή , h(, fem. of ἀδελφός, A. sister, Trag., E Fr.866, etc.; “ὁμοπατρία ἀ.” Men.Georg.12, cf. PTeb.320.5 (ii A.D.): Ion. ἀδελφ-εή , Hdt.2.56, al.; Ep. ἀδελφ-ειή , Q.S.1.30; Dor. ἀδελφ-εά , Pi.N.7.4, and in lyr, passages of Trag., S.OT160, OC535.
2. kinswoman, LXX Jb.42.11.
3. term of endearment, Ca.4.9, To.5.21; applied to a wife, POxy.744.1 (i B. C.), etc.:—as a title, Βερενίκη ἡ ἀ. καὶ
Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon. revised and augmented throughout by. Sir Henry Stuart Jones. with the assistance of. Roderick McKenzie. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1940. The National Science Foundation provided support for entering this text.
Interestingly all state Mary had only Jesus as her Child.
Josiah said:5. I reviewed it and said it says nothing about the topic, nothing about Her being a PERPETUAL virgin, nothing that specifically required that view.
That is your opinion; you have not supported it.
These are English-Greek Lexicons. There are quite a number of Lexicons in the Greek language which are vastly superior to the above. I worked for 10 years at the Centre for the Greek Language in Thessaloniki and had access to their extensive library. There were several expert linguists working there, all of whom were fluent in at least three languages, and none of them held the English-Greek Lexicons in particularly high regard due to the fact that they are abbreviated lexicons as Thekla has already mentioned.so says, Vines, Strongs, Thayers, and Harpers.
When she stated I am not knowing a man she stated that she did not know how she would conceive because at that time she was not knowing a man. In fact did not know one until the birth of Christ.Then as we read the scripture we see that there were brothers and sisters talked about. Not cousins and uncles.. So we can gleam from scripture that Mary did indeed know a man and conceived from her husband. Nothing wrong in that. She was a woman married to a man. No sin there. For the marrriage bed is to be honored.
These are English-Greek Lexicons. There are quite a number of Lexicons in the Greek language which are vastly superior to the above. I worked for 10 years at the Centre for the Greek Language in Thessaloniki and had access to their extensive library. There were several expert linguists working there, all of whom were fluent in at least three languages, and none of them held the English-Greek Lexicons in particularly high regard due to the fact that they are abbreviated lexicons as Thekla has already mentioned.
One classic example of how this can get in the way of correct understanding of scripture is the word "ἀκρίδες" in Matthew 3:5. All English translations of the bible translate this as "locusts, and that is the only definition you will find in any of the aforementioned lexicons. Greek linguists however know that this word also means "young shoots" and that is the meaning the Orthodox Church has always understood for this passage. This error in translation goes all the way back to Jerome since he didn't get it right either. I have not yet come across a Latin-Greek Lexicon which has the latter definition.
Non Greek speaking learners of Greek often seem to forget that the people who understand Greek best are the Greeks themselves.
John
I worked for 10 years at the Centre for the Greek Language in Thessaloniki
My question again. Is there anyone who can provide examples of characters from scripture (Old Testament or New Testament), who once chosen for a higher purpose by God, ever returned to their former common lifestyle? I can't think of any, so it makes me wonder why so many people assume that Mary would do so.To put it crudely, in the Old Testament, anything which was sanctified for use in the temple for the worship of God, was never used for a "common" purpose again. They were only ever used in the temple for the purpose for which they were "set apart".
Mary was set apart by God for the purpose of carrying His Son in her womb and then nourishing Him on her breasts. Her womb had become the flesh equivalent of the Holy of Holies. Her betrothal to Joseph was solely to provide a safe context for her conceiving and giving birth while still a virgin. She would have been stoned to death as an adultress otherwise.
Childbearing was important to the Jews because they knew that the Messiah would be born from among them. Barrenness was considered as being cursed by God for this same reason. Mary, having given birth to the Messiah, had completely fulfilled the hopes of every Jewish mother and was blessed beyond imagining. In her birthing of Christ were many Old Testament prophecies brought to fruition. She was the pinnacle of God's creation, her purpose higher than that of any other man or woman save Christ, yet many would have us believe that after achieving/fulfilling all that, she would return to the life and purpose of an ordinary woman. Did any character in the Old Testament, having been set to a higher purpose, ever return to an ordinary life?
Thank you. I have clumsy fingers on this keyboardIt's Matt 3:4.
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