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Lots of jokes, accusations, condemnations, ridicules, evasions, diversions - no explanations
Suggestions that your posts are driven by some of the above colorful terms is actually due to an unwillingness to attribute malicious intent. Few of us want to believe that you are posting in this manner deliberately so we try to come up with viable alternatives.
John
You do seem obsessed with the subjectSo, rather than addressing why "Mary had no sex ever" is horrible, inaccurate and offensive but "The Virgin Mary never had sex" is correct, appropriate and respectful - you think that calling me immature, sex-crazed, hormone-driven, psychotic, pathological, "post" Fruedian, and reporting me for violating Rules for posting is a better alternative and reveals your respect for me? I'm not sure I understand....
You do seem obsessed with the subject
#106There are only two denominations known to ME that have an official view (dogma in both cases) regarding the sex life of Mary and Joseph after Jesus was born, a dogma about how often they did it (both insist - dogmatically - it's zero).
#112The issue here is the Dogma of "Mary Had No Sex EVER." It's dogma in two denominations (known to me) - the CC and EO. No other denomination (known to me) has any dogma about Mary's sex life after Jesus was born or how often Mary and Joseph "did it."
That's why there is no biblical basis for a Dogma that "Mary Had Sex" and nor is there any biblical basis for a Dogma of "Mary Had NO Sex EVER." Of course, the first doesn't exist. No denomination (known to me) has a formal doctrine of "Mary Had Sex." But two denominations (known to me) have a formal doctrine (in fact it's dogma) of "Mary Had NO Sex EVER."
#126But I think that perhaps you are missing the point here. Protestants have no doctrine on Mary's sex life and the frequency of "doing it."
#139But MY point remains the same. Those are the only denominations known to me to have any dogma (or even doctrine) about her sex life and how often she did (or didn't) do it.
#144There are only three denominations that have ANY dogma about Mary's sex life after Jesus was born and how often she "did it" (or not). YOU are the one with the dogma.
#145For reasons unclear to me, you rather passionately want to discuss non-doctrines that don't exist anywhere rather than your denomination's very specific dogma, but only on the issue of Mary's sex life after Jesus was born. It is a bit of a puzzle to me.
#150Now, back to our discussion. There are three denominations with a DOGMA on this issue of how often Mary had sex after Jesus was born.
from: http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=5323376That's not the issue of this thread. The issue is whether it is a dogmatic fact that Mary had no sex ever.
That resulted in an amazing, stunning firestorm - aimed quite personally at me, and it lasted for months. Posts, PM's, Reports and more.
/cue Norman Bates shower scene sound and visual effects.
Seriously though: We know our doctrine. We have explained our doctrine. We have run smack into CJ's interpretive ethnocentrism, and are now being regailed by him with off-topic anecdotal complaints.
As best as I understand it, this thread is about the PV, and not about CJ's harrowng experiences on GT.
wow it's amazing, the same post in numerous threads I guess NOBODY is missing anything.
I don't understand
You do seem obsessed with the subject
...I have no dogma (not even a very fallible, personal theory) about it.....
Then why does it seem that you argue so hard against something that you say you have no theory about?
No.
There are only 2 (maybe 3) denominations on the planet that had a dogma about how often Mary did or did not have sex. None of them are Protestant, one of them is yours. As I stated, I have no dogma (not even a very fallible, personal theory) about it. In fact, I somewhat feel that it's none of anyone's business how often a married couple has sex. The obsession - to the extreme of dogma - is yours. I have no view whatsoever thus nothing of any nature remotely related to obsession. Your comment should be directed to those with a dogma about this - not those who don't even have a personal view or theory.
But we have here more diversion. My question was this and was directed to Orthodox only: Why is it good and right to insist (even as a matter of highest importance in all of Christianity): "The Ever-Virginity of Mary" (and "virgin" here includes sexual absentence), "The Perpetual Virginity of Mary" (and "virgin" here includes sexual abstinence) and "The Virgin Mary had no sex" but to post "Mary had no sex ever" is rude, offensive, immature, sex-crazed, hormone-driven, "post" Fruedian, pathological, psychotic and a rule violation here at CF? THAT was the issue I've been trying to explore for some months. And it was directed primary to Orthodox. Rather than anwering it - I got months of "virginity has nothing to do with sex - wait a minute, actually it does" and a long chain of remarks about my person: ridicules, comments about my being immature and over-sexed, pathological, Freudian, psychotic, etc. And Reported to staff for my statment that Mary had no sex is a rule violation.
I don't expect any Orthodox to address the issue. Not after all these months of what obviously seems to be extreme discomfort with their teaching. As I posted, it seems this issue cannot be discussed with them. Thus, I gave up. Must be some cultural thing about women or marital sex. And CF probably isn't the appropriate forum for such a cultural exploration anyway. I just concluded this: It seems Orthodox (well, some) have a huge discomfort with something they hold as dogma. I think I have no choice but to leave it there or else simply continue to be attacked.
Peace. Out.
.
You belong to a Reformation/post-Reformation gathered Church.This Church defends belief on what it received - the Scriptures, and has developed a particular means of interpretation which includes one but eschews other methods of interpretation exampled in the NT.
The pre-Reformation Churches also defends belief based on what it received, which includes - but not exclusively - Scripture. We maintain the full count of interpretive method exampled in the NT.
We also maintain the descriptive language of the scripture. As neither Christ nor those who penned the NT use explicit sexual language, we maintain that as well - as this is received (by all Churches who received scripture).
As for the need to couch every discussion about the Virgin Mary in discussions about sex, 'my mom and sex', 'my sister and sex', 'how often other posters have sex', this may be a feature of Lutheran discussions *about the Theotokos. It is not an EO feature of discussions about the Theotokos.
Thekla, since it was stressed that "virgin" form the EO perspective is spiritual and not physical, that it is defined DIFFERENTLY than in the west, I think my quest to understand what is meant by this spiritual but not physical virginity was in order and appropriate. I think the diversion, evasions, and personal attacks on me were not.
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