Perhaps the most overlooked theology.

from scratch · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
Ephesians 4
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

Can the Spirit not lead us from these things?

Sarcasm? ("Have fun with following your false teachers, bro")

Anger? ("NO! You are WRONG!")

Slander? ("You purposefully twist the Word of God!")

Bitterness? ("I don't care if you say you're sorry... you're not forgiven")

If we cleave to Christ and his Holy Spirit, we should make every effort to show it.

Your first 2 items are very useful. Can't say that I know right off hand a verse dealing with sarcasm, bu tthe bible tells us very clearly to be angry and sin not. As cited already in this thread Jesus displayed and used anger correctly.

Who is entitled to righteous anger? Are you saying that no one is? Then howe can we be argry and sin not. The only solution I see to many things is withdrawal. I don't think that is God's will either. I also think it is a very large problem withing the church.

ivebeenshown · Oct 20, 2011

from scratch said:
Your first 2 items are very useful. Can't say that I know right off hand a verse dealing with sarcasm, bu tthe bible tells us very clearly to be angry and sin not. As cited already in this thread Jesus displayed and used anger correctly.

Who is entitled to righteous anger? Are you saying that no one is? Then howe can we be argry and sin not. The only solution I see to many things is withdrawal. I don't think that is God's will either. I also think it is a very large problem withing the church.

To take "be angry and sin not" to mean that we are supposed to be angry would contradict Paul's saying that we are to rid ourselves of all anger, which by the way is in the very same chapter. The NIV renders that phrase “In your anger do not sin." In other words, "be angry and sin not" is an archaic way of saying "do not be angry and sin." KJV was written for a different time, that spoke a different form of English.

Jesus displayed and used anger righteously because he is God. We are told to rid ourselves of all anger.

Frogster · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
To take "be angry and sin not" to mean that we are supposed to be angry would contradict Paul's saying that we are to rid ourselves of all anger, which by the way is in the very same chapter. The NIV renders that phrase In your anger do not sin." In other words, "be angry and sin not" is an archaic way of saying "do not be angry and sin." KJV was written for a different time, that spoke a different form of English.

Jesus displayed and used anger righteously because he is God. We are told to rid ourselves of all anger.

Jesus is our example, say those verses in a non angry manner...

Matthew 23:27
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead peoples bones and all uncleanness.

Or this...

12I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

or this..

Psalm 58:6O God, break the teeth in their mouths;
tear out the fangs of the young lions, O LORD!
7Let them vanish like water that runs away;
when he aims his arrows, let them be blunted.
8Let them be like the snail that dissolves into slime,
like the stillborn child who never sees the sun

ivebeenshown · Oct 20, 2011

Jesus also judges the living and the dead. We don't get all the privileges that Jesus does. Paul also wrote of his opinion that if someone is unmarried to remain unmarried, and acknowledged that it is not forbidden. I don't think it's good to go around wishing people would harm their bodies.

Ultimately, Frogster, I have to ask because I am not sure: are you of the opinion that it's okay to be angry, even though Paul said that we should rid ourselves of all anger, in more than one place?

Frogster · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
Jesus also judges the living and the dead. We don't get all the privileges that Jesus does. Paul also wrote of his opinion that if someone is unmarried to remain unmarried, and acknowledged that it is not forbidden. I don't think it's good to go around wishing people would harm their bodies.

Ultimately, Frogster, I have to ask because I am not sure: are you of the opinion that it's okay to be angry, even though Paul said that we should rid ourselves of all anger, in more than one place?

yes, it is normal to get angry, Jesus did, paul did, even babies get angry, watch em scream.

how does one say this, in a non angry manner?

3;1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.

tell ya bro, if you spend too much time holding in anger, you can get sick, david POURED out his COMPLAINT.

ivebeenshown · Oct 20, 2011

I don't believe that holding in anger is okay. And babies don't know right from wrong so they have not sinned against conscience by getting mad. Just because Paul got angry does not mean it is okay to do so, in fact he said to rid ourselves of all anger. I believe that it is best to rid ourselves of anger, just like Scripture says we should do.

Johnny Todd · Oct 20, 2011

So much to say on this.....John the Baptist said (sarcastically) As he saw many
Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them "Brood of vipers! "Who warned you of the wrath to come".....and "and do not think to say to yourselves, We have Abraham as our father. "For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.....(more sarcasm) This is the Holy Spirit speaking through the Prophet John. We see even Jesus using a bit of sarcasm when speaking with the woman at the well John 4:16 "Go call your husband, and come here"......He already knew she wasn't married, this was sarcasm........And then we have the whole speech to the hypocracy of the Pharisees, were He's really giving it to them!........I say sometimes sarcasm can really get a point home. .......as for slander, It must be understood slander is telling lies about someone else, speaking truthfully about a false teacher or false prophet is not slander. Just as I can honestly and truthfully say Arnold Murray is a false teacher. He has been caught setting dates and his prophecies fell to the ground. true sign of a false prophet, also when a teacher says he has the only true interpretation of scripture and nobody in the history of the Hebrew language has ever interpreted the book of Genesis, where Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, to mean they had sex with satan, Its just the worst case of false teachers I've ever found anyone following.............edit.....I thought the OP was a Arnold Murray fan.....my mistake.....I'm not sure what might be worse.....(my own sarcasm)

Frogster · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
I don't believe that holding in anger is okay. And babies don't know right from wrong so they have not sinned against conscience by getting mad. Just because Paul got angry does not mean it is okay to do so, in fact he said to rid ourselves of all anger. I believe that it is best to rid ourselves of anger, just like Scripture says we should do.

well...we either hold it in, or we release it constructively.

So far we got david, Jesus and paul, releasing anger, and david was even praying, in fact, there are even some vengence verses in the psalms.

The wrath of God is coming too.

Psalm 7:11
God is a just judge, And God is angry with the wicked every day.

JohnRabbit · Oct 20, 2011

from scratch said:
Your first 2 items are very useful. Can't say that I know right off hand a verse dealing with sarcasm, bu tthe bible tells us very clearly to be angry and sin not. As cited already in this thread Jesus displayed and used anger correctly.

Who is entitled to righteous anger? Are you saying that no one is? Then howe can we be argry and sin not. The only solution I see to many things is withdrawal. I don't think that is God's will either. I also think it is a very large problem withing the church.

i agree.

as for sarcasm, i thought this might help:

Matthew 17:24-27(NKJV)
24When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?
25He said, Yes. And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?
26Peter said to Him, From strangers. Jesus said to him, Then the sons are free.27Nevertheless, lest we offend them, go to the sea, cast in a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have opened its mouth, you will find a piece of money; take that and give it to them for Me and you.

11822 · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
I don't know, nor am I concerned. I have seen what anger and sarcasm does to people, and it's not nice. That's probably why the Word of God says "Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice."

I agree. Its damaging and doesn't edify anyone. Its hardly meek and humble. We all fall short and need to work on things.

ivebeenshown · Oct 20, 2011

Frogster said:
well...we either hold it in, or we release it constructively.

So far we got david, Jesus and paul, releasing anger, and david was even praying, in fact, there are even some vengence verses in the psalms.

The wrath of God is coming too.

Psalm 7:11
God is a just judge, And God is angry with the wicked every day.

I'd prefer to pray for the Spirit that I might not be angry at all, rather than be angry and hold it in or release it. God can have his anger because he uses it justly, but it seems to me that he wants me to not be angry at all, because of his Word.

11822 · Oct 20, 2011

What does our heart say? Does it say its ok to abuse others in any way? Mine doesn't say this. Something may seem small to us but to others its no small thing. Do unto others as you would have them do to you. If someone is damaged by something that we do to them, then how can we try and justify it? Would we like others to use these things against us? Nope. No one likes to be laughed at, looked down on, spoken to in a sarcastic way, be made the object of ridicule or malicious joking and no one likes to not be forgiven. The Golden rule says it all.

Frogster · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
I'd prefer to pray for the Spirit that I might not be angry at all, rather than be angry and hold it in or release it. God can have his anger because he uses it justly, but it seems to me that he wants me to not be angry at all, because of his Word.

so are the psalms uninspired, where there are anger prayers, not to mention the other verses I posted?

Frogster · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
I'd prefer to pray for the Spirit that I might not be angry at all, rather than be angry and hold it in or release it. God can have his anger because he uses it justly, but it seems to me that he wants me to not be angry at all, because of his Word.

in other words, no, we don't want to hit anyone, but it is good to vent it maybe privately, and even tell God about it, like the psalmist did...

if we mask it, it will only come back to bite us on our hiney!

Do we walk the dog on the leash, or do we one day see we were being walked?

11822 · Oct 20, 2011

James says:
Jas_3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Meek´ness
n. 1. The quality or state of being meek.

See Also: MODESTY

(Quivering and) abject … like some unfortunate dog abasing itself before its master —Jean Rhys

meek (mk)
adj. meek·er, meek·est
1. Showing patience and humility; gentle.
2. Easily imposed on; submissive.

ivebeenshown · Oct 20, 2011

Frogster said:
so are the psalms uninspired [...] not to mention the other verses I posted?

I regard the entire canon of Holy Scripture as inspired.

Should I not listen to the Word of God and 'get rid of all bitterness and anger'?

Frogster said:
in other words, no, we don't want to hit anyone, but it is good to vent it maybe privately, and even tell God about it, like the psalmist did...

if we mask it, it will only come back to bite us on our hiney!

If we have it, we might as well release it in a healthy way, but as for me, I would rather not be in a position to vent or mask any anger.

Do we walk the dog on the leash, or do we one day see we were being walked?

Frogster · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
I regard the entire canon of Holy Scripture as inspired.

Should I not listen to the Word of God and 'get rid of all bitterness and anger'?

If we have it, we might as well release it in a healthy way, but as for me, I would rather not be in a position to vent or mask any anger.

well, the verses i posted, are a part of the entire canon too.

We got Jesus getting angry, paul getting angry, and the psalmist praying angry prayers. How am i wrong?

Do you see anger in yourself? i ask because of this thread u made.

razeontherock · Oct 20, 2011

ivebeenshown said:
Should I not listen to the Word of God and 'get rid of all bitterness and anger'?

Of course. The question here, is "how?" Surely not by the pretense that we never get angry. There will come a time when you will make a mistake in front of your daughter, and she will know it. (Hopefully not due to anger, but I digress) It will be MUCH better for you to admit the mistake to her, even if you're pretty sure she didn't recognize it, and make amends in transparent fashion, than it would be to hide the whole thing from her. Of course, when that time comes, and in what situation, is for you to decide.

Until then you will want to come to grips with the whole of Scripture on this subject, without compromising the clear Truth of this passage, or any other.

ivebeenshown said:
If we have it, we might as well release it in a healthy way, but as for me, I would rather not be in a position to vent or mask any anger.

Of course! Anger is a complex emotion, and in a healthy individual the only reason for it popping up is because we need the energy to change things. Who wouldn't want to live in a world where nothing needs to be changed? Yet this is not our reality.

The important thing here, is not to let it get the best of us:

"if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." (Genesis 4:7)

You'll notice this is not a new concept.

ivebeenshown · Oct 20, 2011

Frogster said:
well, the verses i posted, are a part of the entire canon too.

I acknowledge this.

We got Jesus getting angry, paul getting angry, and the psalmist praying angry prayers. How am i wrong?

Wrong? I don't know. They may have been angry. But the Scriptures say that I should rid myself of all anger. And how else can I do such a thing but by the power of God's Spirit?

Do you see anger in yourself? i ask because of this thread u made.

Yes, I do. But that's okay, because I trust that the Father will give me his Spirit to get rid of this thing. We are his children, Frogster. We may ask for that.

ivebeenshown · Oct 20, 2011

razeontherock said:
Of course. The question here, is "how?" Surely not by the pretense that we never get angry. There will come a time when you will make a mistake in front of your daughter, and she will know it. (Hopefully not due to anger, but I digress) It will be MUCH better for you to admit the mistake to her, even if you're pretty sure she didn't recognize it, and make amends in transparent fashion, than it would be to hide the whole thing from her. Of course, when that time comes, and in what situation, is for you to decide.

The Word of God tells me that I should get rid of all anger. By the power of the Spirit of God I may cease to be angry for the rest of my life. If I get angry, I will release it in a healthy manner, to the best of my ability, God willing. I will also share this hope of the Spirit with my daughter, that she may be saved from the corruption of unjust anger.

Until then you will want to come to grips with the whole of Scripture on this subject, without compromising the clear Truth of this passage, or any other.

The clear truth is that the Word of God tells me to get rid of all anger. I do not doubt that the Father makes it possible for us to walk in his commands, by sending forth the Spirit of his Son.

Of course! Anger is a complex emotion, and in a healthy individual the only reason for it popping up is because we need the energy to change things. Who wouldn't want to live in a world where nothing needs to be changed? Yet this is not our reality.

The important thing here, is not to let it get the best of us:

"if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." (Genesis 4:7)

You'll notice this is not a new concept.

God is that Supreme reality, the act of existing itself. He is the reality of us all, our very sustained act of existing. I believe that he has promised us his Holy Spirit, so that we might know and act accordingly to this true saying: the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God.

Perhaps the most overlooked theology.

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