Perfect Christianity

ric32bailey · Apr 24, 2006

I joined several Christian sects and one way or another I found some flaw or contradiction of their doctrine with what "is written."

Can we still find perfect Christianity of the first century?

Sophia7 · Apr 24, 2006

ric32bailey said:
I joined several Christian sects and one way or another I found some flaw or contradiction of their doctrine with what "is written."

Can we still find perfect Christianity of the first century?

No, I do not believe that we can find any Christian churches or denominations today that follow exactly the example of the Christians of the first century. A few of them claim to do this, but I believe that they are wrong. Of course, if you read the New Testament, you will notice that the churches of the first century were different from each other in many ways, and none of them were perfect. I believe that the best we can do is to test what we find by the Bible and to ask God to lead us and make us willing to accept whatever truth He convicts us of.

woobadooba · Apr 24, 2006

ric32bailey said:
I joined several Christian sects and one way or another I found some flaw or contradiction of their doctrine with what "is written."

Can we still find perfect Christianity of the first century?

Yes, we can find it, not necessarily in organized religion, but only in Christ through the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth. Jn. 16:13

But in my opinion, doctrinally speaking the SDA church is closer to it than anything else I've seen that is out there. I just wish we had more love. But then again, this is something that is lacking in every church.

Sophia7 · Apr 24, 2006

woobadooba said:
Yes, we can find it, not necessarily in organized religion, but only in Christ through the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth. Jn. 16:13

But in my opinion, doctrinally speaking the SDA church is closer to it than anything else I've seen that is out there. I just wish we had more love. But then again, this is something that is lacking in every church.

Yes, we can find the truth of Christ, just as the first Christians did, but there are no perfect churches. Anyone who is looking for that will be disappointed. Sometimes we have to make the best of the church that God has led us to and, when we see imperfections, act in a Christlike way ourselves to encourage people live up to God's ideal. I have stayed in the Adventist Church my whole life because I believe that, for the most part, its doctrines are biblical. I sometimes object to how people explain our doctrines and how they proof-text to prove that we have "the truth." And I think that as a whole, we have often emphasized the law to the exclusion of love. I get discouraged when I see people in our churches turning others away because they don't dress like them or act like them. I can only hope and pray that they will realize their need for Christ as their Savior and not just as their example.

woobadooba · Apr 24, 2006

Sophia7 said:
I can only hope and pray that they will realize their need for Christ as their Savior and not just as their example.

What a profound thought!

By far too many people emphasize the works of Christ without allowing Him to perform those works in their own lives.

Cliff2 · Apr 24, 2006

woobadooba said:
Yes, we can find it, not necessarily in organized religion, but only in Christ through the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth. Jn. 16:13

But in my opinion, doctrinally speaking the SDA church is closer to it than anything else I've seen that is out there. I just wish we had more love. But then again, this is something that is lacking in every church.

Looking at this question from a doctrinal issue I would agree with what you have said.

I doubt if we will ever see a perfect Church, the reason being is that no one is perfect.

ric32bailey · Apr 25, 2006

One basis of my observation is the comparison of the Apostles/Disciples of Christ with the Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, Priests, and Teachers of the Law during the time of our Lord.

Example:

I cannot find a verse where the Apostles were “addresses” as Pastor that means “Rabbi” that our Lord condemned:

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. (Does not Rabbi means Teacher or Pastor?)

Worse is for the Roman Catholic, of which I was a member before, where we address our Priests as “Father, Fr.)

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

And the Pope is addressed as “Holy and Reverend” which titles solely belong to God:

Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

Our priests, and us, are also subject to this sharp rebuke of our Lord claiming to know the Son Jesus, but at the same time declaring, “The infinite Father God is a mystery incapable of clear IDENTIFICATION with the finite mind of man.”

Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

I suppose the Apostles/Disciples were free from this reproof.

5. What more, I cannot see in the Apostles/Disciples having a “hierarchical organization” as we have in this church.

Believer-in-Christ · Apr 26, 2006

The only one who can claim to be a perfect christian is Christ himself.

ric32bailey · Apr 26, 2006

ric32bailey said:
One basis of my observation is the comparison of the Apostles/Disciples of Christ with the Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, Priests, and Teachers of the Law during the time of our Lord.

Example:

I cannot find a verse where the Apostles were “addresses” as Pastor that means “Rabbi” that our Lord condemned:

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. (Does not Rabbi means Teacher or Pastor?)

Worse is for the Roman Catholic, of which I was a member before, where we address our Priests as “Father, Fr.)

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

And the Pope is addressed as “Holy and Reverend” which titles solely belong to God:

Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

Our priests, and us, are also subject to this sharp rebuke of our Lord claiming to know the Son Jesus, but at the same time declaring, “The infinite Father God is a mystery incapable of clear IDENTIFICATION with the finite mind of man.”

Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

I suppose the Apostles/Disciples were free from this reproof.

5. What more, I cannot see in the Apostles/Disciples having a “hierarchical organization” as we have in this church.

What I mean by perfect Christianity are the DOCTRINES preached by Jesus Christ and followed by His Apostles/Disciples.

After all, are not the doctrines the "road map" of our trek to eternal life?

ric32bailey · Apr 26, 2006

May COLORADO SEMINARY, through its professors, please point out the Chrisitan denomination or sect today that follows the perfect or pure Christianity in the first century?

Aside from the contradictions of doctrines I have listed in my posting, I found many more.

woobadooba · May 4, 2006

jonfan said:
There is one Church that was founded on Peter and still follows those teachings today.
God Bless,
Jon

Actually, any church that is founded on Peter has nothing to do with God.

Both the Head and the Foundation of the Christian Church is none other but God.

ric32bailey · May 5, 2006

Perfect Christianity can only be attained by following the sequence expounded by our Lord when a humble Scribe asked Him regarding the "first of all the commandments."
Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
I feel many people are omitting the prerequisite to "loving God," and this is to be able to IDENTIFY or KNOWN Him as Simon Peter identified Jesus in:
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
It is only by divine revelation that we can clearly and truly IDENTIFY Jesus so as not to be subject to the following rebuke:

Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

moicherie · May 22, 2006

There is no such thing as perfect Christianity anything humans get their hands on they corrupt in some way.
After all only God is perfect, churches are not.

woobadooba · May 22, 2006

moicherie said:
There is no such thing as perfect Christianity anything humans get their hands on they corrupt in some way.
After all only God is perfect, churches are not.

Ye of little faith...

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless." Eph. 5:25-27

JESUSLUVA1 · May 26, 2006

no it dont think we can find any denominationz or anything in da 1st century unless u call jews n gentile

moicherie · Jun 1, 2006

woobadooba said:
Ye of little faith...

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless." Eph. 5:25-27

Its Christ perfection that makes us perfect so its not about little faith, our perfection is like filthy rags. For starter there are imperfections in our church unless you attend a perfect Adventist congregation.....

woobadooba · Jun 1, 2006

moicherie said:
Its Christ perfection that makes us perfect so its not about little faith, our perfection is like filthy rags. For starter there are imperfections in our church unless you attend a perfect Adventist congregation.....

You missed my point...

The point is that the scriptures teach us that the Church will be blameless/perfect before Jesus returns.

Yet, you don't seem to believe this. One must wonder why. I think I already answered that question however.

Rev. 14:12--how could they be keeping the commandments of God and fostering faith in Christ if perfection of character weren't possible for God's people?

OntheDL · Jun 1, 2006

Yeah, the church as an organization will always be imperfect while on this earth. But God has reserved to Himself seven thousand.

And for the last generation: the 14400, they must have their characters perfectly transformed into Christ like.

So..., Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:48

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1 Peter 1:16

moicherie · Jun 6, 2006

woobadooba said:
You missed my point...

The point is that the scriptures teach us that the Church will be blameless/perfect before Jesus returns.

Yet, you don't seem to believe this. One must wonder why. I think I already answered that question however.

Rev. 14:12--how could they be keeping the commandments of God and fostering faith in Christ if perfection of character weren't possible for God's people?

We are perfect because of Christ not because of ourselves that is my point and at this moment in time the church including our church is not completely Christlike if it were we would not be here. As for what I believe why not ask rather than assume since mind reading is not a human trait.

woobadooba · Jun 6, 2006

moicherie said:
We are perfect because of Christ not because of ourselves that is my point

OK, but did I ever say something contrary to this? If so, please show me where...

and at this moment in time the church including our church is not completely Christlike

Did I ever say it was?

By the way, just because it isn't completely Christlike now, that doesn't mean it never will be prior to His coming. See Rev. 14:12

As for what I believe why not ask rather than assume since mind reading is not a human trait.

What you believe is clearly spelled out in your posts.

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