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PCUSA gives "In Christ Alone" the Boot

hedrick

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Yet another reminder that the cross of Christ is a stumbling block.

Is God Angry with Sin?

The title of the article is misleading. As far as I know, the PCUSA agrees that God is angry with sin. It also considers the cross of Christ important.

The question is whether we accept that penal substitution is a correct understanding of the atonement. Personally I don't. I hadn't realized, however, that this view was shared quite so widely within the church.
 
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Help for the realization: Monergism :: Penal Substitutionary Atonement

Though the Monergism list is nowhere near comprehensive, it is a good start. I would do some work tracing historically the doctrine of the atonement in Reformed confessions. According to J.I. Packer:

"Every theological question has behind it a history of study, and narrow eccentricity in handling it is unavoidable unless the history is taken into account. Adverse comment on the concept of penal substitution often betrays narrow eccentricity or this kind. The two main historical points relating to this idea are, first, that Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Melanchthon and their reforming contemporaries were the pioneers in stating it and, second, that the arguments brought against it in 1578 by the Unitarian Pelagian, Faustus Socinus, in his brilliant polemic De Jesu Christo Servatore (Of Jesus Christ the Saviour)1 have been central in discussion of it ever since. What the Reformers did was to redefine satisfactio (satisfaction), the main mediaeval category for thought about the cross. Anselm’s Cur Deus Homo?, which largely determined the mediaeval development, saw Christ’s satisfactio for our sins as the offering of compensation or damages for dishonour done, but the Reformers saw it as the undergoing of vicarious punishment (poena) to meet the claims on us of God’s holy law and wrath (i.e. his punitive justice)." - J.I. Packer, The Logic of Penal Substitution
 
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hedrick

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My apologies. What I wrote was ambiguous. Obviously I know that penal satisfaction is common. What surprised me was that *opposition* to it was so widespread that a PCUSA committee would consider it obviously a problem. Based on an account of the discussion, the argument was not over whether it was correct, but whether it could be tolerated, given that some churches clearly wanted it. Their decision was no.

The Confession of 1967 lists it as one of the ways Scripture talks about the atonement. The 1983/5 documents don't give any theory of the atonement. However there are certainly many Presbyterians who accept it.

I see where many Scripture passages can be interpreted as consistent with it. I don't see any that mandate it. We've been through these discussions in Soteriology, and the citations all involve some level of eisegesis. Again there's nothing in Scripture that would rule it out. I can see it as a possible understanding of the evidence. I just don't see it as the only or even most likely. Certainly the Reformed view is preferable to Anselm's.

My objection is mot to substitution, to our sin deserving punishment, to Christ suffering on our behalf, or to the exchange described in Rom 6. It is to the concept that God can't forgive us without punishing us. That is contrary to Jesus' teaching, and I'm pretty sure also to Paul's. As I understand Paul, Jesus replaces the legal system under which there was nothing better to do with sin than to punish it, with an atonement that actually takes it away, by Christ taking it and defeating it.

I agree with most of the discussion in Institutes 2.16, however in 2.16.5 Calvin's reference to the curse of the Law seems to reflect his understanding of Gal 3:13, which fails to take into account the law/grace issue with which it is primarily dealing. Calvin treats the passage as if the law's demand for punishment is a legitimate one which we have to satisfy, and can do so only through Christ. But Paul's whole point is that the legal system is not what we depend upon for salvation, however much it may have other uses. Christ takes on for us the character of a sinner under the law, as Calvin notes, but he does so that by his death and resurrection he can abolish the curse of the Law. Not by satisfying God's demand for punishment, but by establishing a better way.

Perhaps I should call this penal substitution. After all Christ takes our sins, which under the law we would be liable to punishment for, and by dying for them wipes out our punishment. It's just that I don't see in Paul that God actually punishing him for our sins. Rather his death abolishes both our sins (Rom 6) and the requirement for punishment (Gal 3:13), nailing the Law to the cross, as Calvin says.

Paul's actual discussion of the atonement in Rom 6 does not say that Christ satisfies God's need to punish someone. For him it is axiomatic that death ends slavery to sin (Rom 6:7). Commentators have suggested several sources for that idea, but none is obviously best, and none is particularly based on punishment (not even in Calvin's commentary on Rom 6:7). Because he has taken on our sin, his death ends slavery to sin not for himself, but for us. And the same union that let him take our sin gives us the new life of his resurrection.

This is vicarious sacrifice, but I don't think it's penal substitution. As calvin notes in 2:16:2-4, God is angry at sin. However in 2:16:3 he says that God's wrath applies only to our sin, not ourselves. He explains the Biblical language speaking of God being angry at us as non-literal ("accommodation"). He loves us, and in fact receives us before Jesus' death. However he can't receive us fully as long as we are sinful, and thus he uses the atonement to deal with our sin. The point here isn't that he has to punish us, but that he has to deal with our sin. In 2:16:5-7, Jesus takes on our sin in order to defeat it, and in the exchange, he obedience becomes ours. However as noted above, I don't entirely agree with his explanation.
 
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Osage Bluestem

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God is good. His goodness demands justice. His goodness allows for mercy through justice. Christ voluntarily laid down his perfect sinless life in the place of sinners to take upon himself willingly the just punishment due them. For that wonderful acceptable and holy sacrifice God in his just mercy applies the righteousness of Christ to the total number of those for whom Christ died. They receive this Gospel with the gift of faith that results in thanksgiving and joy in their Lord and God.
 
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Honestly it makes no sense considering PCUSA's doctrinal standards in their Book of Confessions. It is Romish for men to make this kind of decision trumping both Scripture and the Confessions. I do not see how even liberals in PCUSA could stand behind such as this.
 
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hedrick

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I'm moderately liberal, and I agree. I think the position taken in the hymn is permitted even by the 20th Cent confessional statements.
 
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Romans 5:8-10:

“But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!”

Seems to me the lyrics are correct.
 
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