Paul VS Jesus

Jim47 · Jan 29, 2006

Merlin said:
Of course there is not.
Paul lived many years after Jesus walked among us.

Jesus chose 12 men to represent Him (the Apostles)
The Apostles accepted Paul.

Well, almost.

Actually Jesus came down from Heaven and called Paul Himself to serve as an Apostle.

Merlin · Jan 29, 2006

Of course there is not.
Paul lived many years after Jesus walked among us.

Jesus chose 12 men to represent Him (the Apostles)
The Apostles accepted Paul.

Jim47 said:
Well, almost.

Actually Jesus came down from Heaven and called Paul Himself to serve as an Apostle.

Almost?
Are you saying the Apostles did not accept Paul?

Jim47 · Jan 29, 2006

Merlin said:
Of course there is not.
Paul lived many years after Jesus walked among us.

Jesus chose 12 men to represent Him (the Apostles)
The Apostles accepted Paul.

Almost?
Are you saying the Apostles did not accept Paul?

No, not at all. I am saying that Paul did not seek others approval, he was called directly by Christ.

riverpastor · Jan 29, 2006

manimal2878 said:
Why does paul never quote Jesus or talk about Jesus's miracles.

It seems the only thing paul knows is the resurrection, he doesn't mention anything else at all.

Why is that?

I am starting to think paul is a fraud.

manimal,

As Paul preached in the churches that were established throught the regions, he did indeed preach of the Christ, the Anointed One.

So many Christian believers get stuck in the Gospels and at the Cross and Burial of Jesus, but never move any further into the depths of the Kingdom of God.

Paul was called to bring about a greater clarity of the Resurrected Jesus as the Anointed One, the Messiah.

He preached about the Resurrection because he understood the power of the Resurrection of Christ in the lives of those who believed. In Romans 6, the Bible tells us that believers are no longer bound to sin because they have been crucified with Christ. But, greater than this, is the fact that believers live according to the same resurrection that Christ lives. We live life now by Christ's life within, not by some form of life that we believe God expects from us.

Only One Person can live righteousness, and that is Jesus.

So, believers are called to live by His Righteousness and not any of our own. For, as the Bible states, our righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God.

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul's teaching and ministry was building into the Christian faith on the Cornerstone, which is Christ.

If all a builder ever has is a cornerstone, a foundation, then he doesn't have much of a building, does he?

Paul's revelation of Christ is a continuation of the revelation of Christ in His fullness. We get even more from John in the Book of Revelation, building even further on top of that which Paul ministered and taught...

Christ in you, the hope of Glory.

It's one thing for a person to believe that Christ died for them. It's even one thing for someone to believe that Christ was Resurrected for them. But, this takes on a whole new meaning when you begin to understand that this same Christ lives His life in you and through you.

Jesus' life in us is the life we are to live as believers.

And I believe that this is the message that was entrusted to Paul to give to the church.

Merlin · Jan 30, 2006

Jim47 said:
No, not at all. I am saying that Paul did not seek others approval, he was called directly by Christ.

Your responses do make me wonder what you are actually reading.
Surely not my posts?
I have never said Paul was not called by Jesus, nor have I said Paul sought anyone's approval.

Jim47 · Jan 30, 2006

Merlin said:
Of course there is not.

Merlin said:
Paul lived many years after Jesus walked among us.

Jesus chose 12 men to represent Him (the Apostles)
The Apostles accepted Paul.[/quote]

Then this is not your post?

Merlin · Jan 30, 2006

Please forgive my denseness.
Which statement(s) do you challenge?

Paul lived many years after Jesus walked among us

or

Jesus chose 12 men to represent Him (the Apostles)

or

The Apostles accepted Paul.

Faith In God · Jan 30, 2006

FWIW, Paul may have written 2/3s of the books in the NT, but he did not write the majority of it. Luke wrote the majority of the NT itself (the gospel of Luke and the book of Acts).
Also, I hate to be a wet rag, but remember that we aren't supposed to debate in the answers forum (and, if I may add, quabble).

Sabra · Jan 30, 2006

It seems, Anti Existance, that you have not read all the Scriptures. Jesus reveals to John (his most beloved follower) in Revelation that those who are sexually immoral (e.g. homosexuality) will not receive eternal life. They will be outside the Kingom of God. Paul's message is directly from Jesus - he talks about how Jesus' death makes us righteous in God's eyes, the resurrection. Also, that first encounter is the only one recorded by Luke in Acts, elsewhere Paul claims that his message came straight from God.

You need only look at his teachings to prove this. They do not contradict Jesus' teachings, they reinforce them. Some of his teachings do not apply today, e.g. slavery, the place of women, and so on as society has changed. You have to understand that Paul was talking to people who lived in the culture of his day which is vastly different than ours. You see, what do you think would have happened if the early Christians - including Paul - were to come out with all these new views such as ending slavery, equal rights for men and women, and everything like this that contradicted the "norms" of the society at that day? Everyone would have thought of them as weird and freaks and kept away from them, thus missing the true message of the Gospel that was so important for them to hear. What Paul and the other early Christians did was to work within the framework of society while trying to add Christian morality and ethics into what society considered to be normal, e.g. slavery. Masters were told to respect their slaves and treat them well. Prior to this they had no need to do so.

I respect Paul a lot and I consider him one of the bravest Christians who ever walked this earth. His life, messages, and so on are a reflection of his beliefs and his heart. In the case of Paul, his life is a reflection of his trust and belief in Jesus.

Jim47 · Jan 31, 2006

The Apostles accepted Paul.

If you read Paul's letters, he makes a strong point that he was not called by man, but directly by Jesus. He did not even meet all the Apostles until several years after his conversion.

Therefore thye above statement is not a good description.

Faith In God · Jan 31, 2006

Jim47 said:
If you read Paul's letters, he makes a strong point that he was not called by man, but directly by Jesus. He did not even meet all the Apostles until several years after his conversion.

Therefore thye above statement is not a good description.

"The apostles accepted Paul" == true.

He was called by God. Okay. Both true. Let's agree, shall we? Technicalities aren't worth debating in an answers forum.

Merlin · Feb 1, 2006

Jim47 said:
If you read Paul's letters, he makes a strong point that he was not called by man, but directly by Jesus. He did not even meet all the Apostles until several years after his conversion.

Therefore thye above statement is not a good description.

Thank you for your answer.

Interesting2me · Feb 1, 2006

For someone who did'nt quote Jesus as much as some would've liked him to, Paul knew an awful lot about Jesus as he convinced many Jews of His day that This Jesus was indeed the Christ Of Israel before being sent back to Tarsus [Acts 9:1-31]. No one else proved Jesus Christ as the incarnate Son Of Echad/God from the scriptures [except maybe Apollos], connecting the dots between Law & Grace, Judaism & Christianity, than this [Saul] Paul of Tarsus. Jesus Christ said He "..came not to destroy the Law but to full it...". After the fulfilling of the Law, Grace was available to Jew & Greek [Gentile] without partiallity, except being to the Jew first. The eleven other apostles had jobs to do also [writing the 4 gospels, some epistles & Revelations while preaching The Good News Of Messias/Jesus, The Christ Of Echad/God].

Paul of Tarsus had a specific calling from Jesus Christ Himself [Acts 9:14-25] of the which he was faithful to death, never contradicting Jesus Christ or any other inspired words/writings of Echad/God!

"Many are called, few are chosen", Jesus' words. In addition, the word 'fornication' spoken used by Jesus, covers anything & everyone who wants to walk after the flesh. Jesus Christ did not come in His first appearance to condemn the world [Jn.3:16-17] but to save it, even forgiving everyone whether they accepted it or not from His cross.

His second return from heaven as Joshua [same name meaning as Jesus] in a Judge's clothing will be a far different story. Any can accept Him now, or be judged by Him then! [Rev.18:11-16, 20:11-15]. Echad/God is on everyone's side, HIS WAY! remember the rich young rulers test!

BillyWheaton · Feb 2, 2006

manimal2878 said:
Why does paul never quote Jesus or talk about Jesus's miracles.

It seems the only thing paul knows is the resurrection, he doesn't mention anything else at all.

Why is that?

I am starting to think paul is a fraud.

Why would he quote him? Paul never knew Jesus, right. Many discuss the founding fathers now but never quote them. Now whether he was inspired by God, that is a good question!

BillyWheaton · Feb 2, 2006

Interesting2me said:
For someone who did'nt quote Jesus as much as some would've liked him to, Paul knew an awful lot about Jesus as he convinced many Jews of His day.

you mean Gentiles, right? Galatians, few dispute written by Paul has Paul admitting he had little impact of Christian Jews in Jeruselem. Acts was not written by Paul --I'd take paul's word over Luke's about Paul's own life.

Jim47 · Feb 2, 2006

BillyWheaton said:

Why would he quote him? Paul never knew Jesus, right.

Click to expand...

BillyWheaton said:
Now whether he was inspired by God, that is a good question!

Ac 9:3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.
Ac 9:4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
Ac 9:5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.
Ac 9:6 "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
Ac 9:7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.
Ac 9:8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus.
Ac 9:9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
Ac 9:10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision,"Ananias!"
"Yes, Lord," he answered.
Ac 9:11 The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.
Ac 9:12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."
Ac 9:13 "Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem.
Ac 9:14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name."
Ac 9:15 But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.
Ac 9:16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

If you read the above account, you will find in verse 16 that Jesus said that He Himself would train Paul. I think that Paul may have recieved much more training than even the other Apostles that were with Jesus throughout His Ministry.

Gal 1:11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up.
Gal 1:12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

LilLamb219 · Feb 2, 2006

If you read the above account, you will find in verse 16 that Jesus said that He Himself would train Paul. I think that Paul may have recieved much more training than even the other Apostles that were with Jesus throughout His Ministry.

And even after 3 years of catechism with Jesus, Thomas still had his doubts!

Interesting2me · Feb 17, 2006

visionary said:
Paul went from believing Torah to seeing Yeshua as Torah. He still talks about Torah as he sees it in Yeshua.

I'm not easilly impressed, but I must say your reply though brief [as I would like mine to be], answers all, especially the line on The Torah [Tenach]. Only a converted, learned Jew could connect the dots between the two tesaments [covenants] like The Apostle Paul Did.

God Bless.

visionary · Feb 17, 2006

Only a converted, learned Jew could connect the dots between the two tesaments [covenants] like The Apostle Paul Did.

That is a true statement even today. So many things undestood in greek context, or roman context are not the thoughts of the Jewish writers when they wrote what they did.

I_are_sceptical · Feb 18, 2006

Jim47 said:
Ac 9:16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

If you read the above account, you will find in verse 16 that Jesus said that He Himself would train Paul.

I don't find any such thing in verse 16. It only says that Jesus will show Paul how much he must suffer. There is absolutely no teaching here that Jesus will train Paul to interpret or add to Jesus' words as they are found in the Gospels.

I can't figure out where your belief comes from. Is there even one verse, anyplace, where Jesus says "All who follow Me are commanded to accept whatever this man says just as you accept what I have taught you"?

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