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Actually, "Indefinitely" is an interesting choice of words! It almost seems like he has been removed while they are doing an assessment, investigation, or whatever. It would be interesting to see why they said "Indefinitely" rather than "Permanently."
I watched a video of the opening of the Conference where he was scheduled to speak and they said "Permanently Disqualified" so the language of his peers is definitely stronger.
Exactly my thoughts as well. I think people need to put their pitchforks away until we have more information on the subject.So, based not upon facts but upon what you think you know, you would rather slander the man unfairly and unnecessarily?
According to your own words, no one was there but the people involved and we do not have the particulars and they didn't go into detail. You do not know and neither do I nor anyone else here! Why not cut the man some slack and give him the benefit of the doubt? Why do you have to jump to such conclusions and expect the absolute worst? Do you have some sort of vendetta against men in the ministry?
I think the elders were quite open and forthright. If they were trying to hide something, why would they even issue a press release? We have what we need to know: He was removed from ministry due to sinful behavior that disqualifies him from the office in which he was entrusted. This gives sufficient explanation as to why his material is no longer on Refnet, Ligonier, Grace Community, or any other online source.
Yes, the elders' primary interest is to protect their congregation and the testimony of the Church that Christ purchased with his own blood! Would you expect anything less?
I am certain that Steve Lawson will release a public statement in due time. He certainly owes us this but I want him to take his time and carefully consider what he is about to say. I hope he does not make excuses for his behavior and I pray that God is ultimately glorified in all things.
Please pray for Brother Steve (Yes, he is a brother!), his family, and for their congregation! This is a horrible ordeal for anyone to have to go through - especially when it is in the public spotlight! Think about his wife, his sons, daughters, and his grandkids who are doing their best to deal with this matter. Do you think it is helpful for them to see their husband, father, and grandfather unnecessarily and unfairly attacked by someone who professes to be a believer?
You mean things like denying Christ 3 times?Hard to give someone the benefit of the doubt when their sin was serious enough to keep them from ministry. It looks like he has done the right thing to confess his sin which shows some repentance from him. Still, some sins will keep you from ministry even if you repent.
I imagine that is probably the case. Whatever the case, there is something disheartening in seeing someone of age acting so recklessly. It goes to show that virtue is not a given. Apparently, it must not only be pursued but continuously pursued. Still, I don't get it. One would think that at that age some things, like having a side-honey, would be so onerous and futile that the thought would die with its arrival.
You mean things like denying Christ 3 times?
I still remember both the Jimmy Swaggart scandal and the Jim Bakker/PTL scandal back in the late 1980s. Both scandals came about just after I accepted Christ and was trying to find my spiritual footing at Bible College. .... from all of that, I learned very quickly why very few men, including myself, shouldn't be in "lime-light" ministry.
And, here we are, how many decades later, with the same tropes of failure? Personally, with the culture we have, and with social studies incisiveness we can all use and peruse these issues, I'm surprised that anyone is still surprised. Of course, my outlook wasn't formed in the cauldron of conservativism, so maybe my outlook on all of this sort of thing is a bit on the side of the outlier.
Be that as it may, I fully agree with you that it is disheartening when this sort of thing happens.
Yeah well afterwards he went on to preach the gospel to thousands of people and even became a martyr. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I don’t know any man who is qualified to cast a stone except Christ Himself. I suspect that every person in this thread is lucky to not have their sins broadcast on social media for all to see. What would people say about you if they were?Exceptions do not make the rule.
Yeah well afterwards he went on to preach the gospel to thousands of people and even became a martyr. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I don’t know any man who is qualified to cast a stone except Christ Himself. I suspect that every person in this thread is lucky to not have their sins broadcast on social media for all to see. What would people say about you if they were?
Good post. It should not surprise us no matter what theological positions the person holds, which I think is what some people are doing is dumbing down the sin because of his theology and how much he was loved in a certain tradition.
“Dumbing down the sin” and refraining from making accusations that are not supported by evidence are two different things my friend. Absolutely it’s a serious offense, I haven’t seen anyone say otherwise, but saying things like it’s likely gone on for a long time or that he’s probably done it several times without any evidence to support those statements is bearing false witness against a brother. I don’t see any harm in waiting to see what more information is revealed instead of starting unsupported rumors against him.Good post. It should not surprise us no matter what theological positions the person holds, which I think is what some people are doing is dumbing down the sin because of his theology and how much he was loved in a certain tradition.
Maybe he’s not like me, I don’t know. Maybe he’s much better than me.Don't excuse sin, which is what you are doing because in this case the person sinning is someone you like.
“Dumbing down the sin” and not making accusations that are not supported by evidence are two different things my friend. Absolutely it’s a serious offense, I haven’t seen anyone say otherwise, but saying things like it’s likely gone on for a long time or that he’s probably done it several times without any evidence to support those statements is bearing false witness against a brother. I don’t see any harm in waiting to see what more information is revealed instead of starting unsupported rumors against him.
I was a fairly young Christian as well when the Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker scandals came out. The difference with Bakker and Swaggart is that they were bona-fide "Celebrity" preachers who were household names who were already held in derision by the unbelieving crowd.I still remember both the Jimmy Swaggart scandal and the Jim Bakker/PTL scandal back in the late 1980s. Both scandals came about just after I accepted Christ and was trying to find my spiritual footing at Bible College. .... from all of that, I learned very quickly why very few men, including myself, shouldn't be in "lime-light" ministry.
And, here we are, how many decades later, with the same tropes of failure? Personally, with the culture we have, and with social studies incisiveness we can all use and peruse these issues, I'm surprised that anyone is still surprised. Of course, my outlook wasn't formed in the cauldron of conservativism, so maybe my outlook on all of this sort of thing is a bit on the side of the outlier.
Be that as it may, I fully agree with you that it is disheartening when this sort of thing happens.
Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme... (2 Sam 12:14, KJV)
I was a fairly young Christian as well when the Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker scandals came out. The difference with Bakker and Swaggart is that they were bona-fide "Celebrity" preachers who were household names who were already held in derision by the unbelieving crowd.
Steve Lawson, on the other hand, is a well-known speaker among the crowd he runs with (Reformed, Ligonier, Masters Seminary, G3, Etc.) but not necessarily to those who are outside of this particular "camp." He was highly respected and esteemed (not like MacArthur or Sproul, but close) and was, until now, a man of impeccable character and integrity. He was definitely not a charlatan as was Bakker or Swaggart. Of course he has now become much more widely known for all the wrong reasons since the news media has picked up the story and has run with it.
The Prophet Nathan's words to King David couldn't ring more true during a time like this:
Waiting for more information before passing judgement is a baseless extreme?The problem is that it is not stated one way or another whether this is a recurring thing or not. Some people think it is an ongoing thing and you think we should "give the benefit of the doubt." Both extremes are completely baseless.
I still remember both the Jimmy Swaggart scandal and the Jim Bakker/PTL scandal back in the late 1980s. Both scandals came about just after I accepted Christ and was trying to find my spiritual footing at Bible College. .... from all of that, I learned very quickly why very few men, including myself, shouldn't be in "lime-light" ministry.
And, here we are, how many decades later, with the same tropes of failure? Personally, with the culture we have, and with the social studies incisiveness by which we can all use and peruse these issues, I'm surprised that anyone is still surprised. Of course, my outlook wasn't formed in the cauldron of conservativism, so maybe my outlook on all of this sort of thing is a bit on the side of the outlier.
Be that as it may, I fully agree with you that it is disheartening when this sort of thing happens.
Waiting for more information before passing judgement is a baseless extreme?
I didYou did not say you were waiting for more information before passing judgment. You said very clearly we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
So with the information we have I don’t think people should be assuming that he had been doing this for years or that it happened repeatedly, and we should also recognize that he was the person to confess to the elders himself. I see a lot of posts here where people are starting rumors and making accusations that aren’t supported by the information given in the article. I don’t know if these accusations are based on another source of information but if they aren’t I would suggest that we give brother Steven the benefit of a doubt and consider that this may have been a one time event that he felt so convicted about that he confessed it to the church which is the right thing to do, and probably a very hard thing to do as well. I could be wrong but I wouldn’t start speculating against a brother making accusations without evidence to support them.
Exactly my thoughts as well. I think people need to put their pitchforks away until we have more information on the subject.
I did
You're making a vastly relevant, and practical, point, PH! It's something we all should definitely keep in mind, and hopefully it doesn't require the onset of years and aging to move us to a point where figuring things out with some urgency begins to hit home. What you're saying here becomes even weightier if we couple it with that little bit from James 4:14 where he says,Yeah I remember those two. God bless them. They were in their 40s to early 50s when their scandals broke. This codger is 73 YOA, lol! He should have hung up his guns and made up his mind to stay on the homestead by now.
Basically, my main comment for this thread is people that age should have figured some things out by now. They don't get as much slack as other people because they have had time.
I'm not disheartened by what these guys have done, per se. None if it, in general, is surprising. What I find disheartening is someone that age doing it. Man, if you've walked this earth that long and have not grasped the obvious things, that's disheartening. I truly pity them, and there are of lot of spiritually/emotionally immature old people out there. You can bet there are couples in their 80s still ripping it up and yelling at each other because they haven't gotten past that nonsense, just like there's some 73 year old dude who thinks chasing another woman is somehow going to be good.
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