Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Of course gluttony is a sin and dangerous to our souls. I never said otherwise. I was only warning about not judging people or becoming self-righteous (we become this way when we focus on everyone else's sins). I don't want to highjack this thread, but I wonder what you think of this: A couple weeks ago I visited another Orthodox parish and the priest there had to way at least 500 lbs. or more. Seriously. Would it have been my place, or anyone else's, to take him aside and tell him how sinful he is for gluttony? I certainly don't think so. I have enough of my own sins to worry about!Lay down all said:Of course we should warn overeaters, it's self indulgence seeking fullfillment in food, as in all worldly endulgences keeps us from the true fullfillment, which is the love of God in our hearts.
An overeater needs help as much as a masturbator, and i have struggled with this sin and would find it no use people not condemning it, people should help another who sins out of love, not looking down on them, but being a servant to them of Gods love.
I want my brother to rebuke me, i want to be warned of sin, i want to know sin to avoid it and be helped to overcome it.
I see an excuse for nearly every sin today, and even if it is recognized as sin, they then seems to be a sort of encouragement in it, by saying we love you as you are, forgetting the love of Christ was to free us from sin, He died for our sins, not for us to still be servants of them but free from the bondage they kept us in.
We still love another when they are sinners, for Christ died for us when we were yet sinners, but it wasn't for us to remain such, otherwise His death was in vain.
We also out of love for sinners and our brethren want them to overcome sin, this is love not some evil as the world calls it today.
Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta said:Of course gluttony is a sin and dangerous to our souls. I never said otherwise. I was only warning about not judging people or becoming self-righteous (we become this way when we focus on everyone else's sins). I don't want to highjack this thread, but I wonder what you think of this: A couple weeks ago I visited another Orthodox parish and the priest there had to way at least 500 lbs. or more. Seriously. Would it have been my place, or anyone else's, to take him aside and tell him how sinful he is for gluttony? I certainly don't think so. I have enough of my own sins to worry about!
That aside, I did edit one of my previous posts on this thread. I don't want people to think that any sin should be taken lightly, and I'm sorry if my post came off that way.
Lay down all said:Maybe it wouldn't have been your place, but i think those of his parish who know him should maybe try to help him, and maybe they do.
I'm sure some do mention it to him and he knows himself.
Doctors may have warned him, i'm sure it's not healthy to be that weight and could even be life threatening.
There are loving ways of rebuking people, without being self righteous and condemning.
Why shouldn't those who love him try to help him.
Yes, I definitely agree! Despite what a lot of diet books say, there are other contributing factors to weight gain/obesity than just overeating. I have a thyroid/autoimmune disease that slows down my metabolism. Losing weight, while not impossible, is a slow and very frustrating process for me. The fatigue is not fun, either. Anyway, this is just one more reason not to make judgements on people who we *think* are sinning in some way (not that you were doing that, AriaAria said:I know some people who have a serious problem with diabetes and allergies. Food just turns into sugar... and they don't eat that much. Yet they cannot lose weight and they are terribly obese. One woman just got her stomach stabled to control this and died from the operation. We have to pray for these people.
Allergies to foods can cause cravings and horrible blood sugar crashes. I have that problem myself ... I'm not overweight but still it's horrible feeling all sweaty and making incoherent statements.
Lord have mercy.
Elizabeth
Oh, not at all. My posting the link is simply selfish on my part. I didn't want to copy/paste it all over here, and I would welcome more Orthodox participation on my "home" board.Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta said:I hope I didn't come across as condoning masturbation or anything. My main concern was not condemning people to hell for it.
Absolutely agree. That is one of the points I try to explain on the linked thread: that misplaced sexual desire is a result of the Fall and corruption.I found this bit of wisdom from Bishop Alexander Mileant:
He talks about how sexual fulfillment outside of marriage is a sin against wholeness. There should be no separation between sexuality and Eros.
Aria said:I know some people who have a serious problem with diabetes and allergies. Food just turns into sugar... and they don't eat that much. Yet they cannot lose weight and they are terribly obese. One woman just got her stomach stabled to control this and died from the operation. We have to pray for these people.
Allergies to foods can cause cravings and horrible blood sugar crashes. I have that problem myself ... I'm not overweight but still it's horrible feeling all sweaty and making incoherent statements.
Lord have mercy.
Elizabeth
I think we could safely come to the conclusion that based on the writings of the Church Fathers, as well as Biblical principles, it is a sin. It is a self-centered practice, a perverted use of something for self-gratification only. This is not conducive to theosis, which basically means to become like Christ. This is not an easy concept to accept if you are exposed to worldly psychology and physiological theories (and we all are, on a daily basis through the media).Lay down all said:I'm a bit lost now, what is being said is masturbation to be condemned or not, if one amongst our congregation speaks of it as good and not sinful are we not to rebuke them out of love?
Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta said:Yes, I definitely agree! Despite what a lot of diet books say, there are other contributing factors to weight gain/obesity than just overeating. I have a thyroid/autoimmune disease that slows down my metabolism. Losing weight, while not impossible, is a slow and very frustrating process for me. The fatigue is not fun, either. Anyway, this is just one more reason not to make judgements on people who we *think* are sinning in some way (not that you were doing that, Aria).
Oh, and I know of several people who have had that gastric bypass surgery. Three are dead, one came very near to dying and will have life long nutritional deficiencies, and the other also came VERY close to dying as a result of complications. You don't hear many of the horror stories in all the magazine articles praising that surgery.
SORRY......I think I have sufficiently highjacked this thread after all....
thornygrace said:To clarify, I guess when I wrote that sexual relations in marriage is only for procreation purposes I was thinking of the teaching of the RCC. I know better than that and lost my mind for a minute.
I was trying to convey however, that sexual behavior needs to be contained to marriage and related to the health of marriage.
And that touching yourself is a sin that can lead to objectification of others and to other sins.
(And I am very guilty of glutteny and to lustful thoughts.)
By the way, off subject: I thought that before I am Chrismated (spelling?) I had to do a confession in which I attempt to the best of my knowledge to report all of my sins. Is that correct?
I guess when I wrote that sexual relations in marriage is only for procreation purposes I was thinking of the teaching of the RCC.
2361 "Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not simply something biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death." 143
Tobias got out of bed and said to Sarah, "Sister, get up, and let us pray and implore our Lord that he grant us mercy and safety." So she got up, and they began to pray and implore that they might be kept safe. Tobias began by saying, "Blessed are you, O God of our fathers. . . . You made Adam, and for him you made his wife Eve as a helper and support. From the two of them the race of mankind has sprung. You said, 'It is not good that the man should be alone; let us make a helper for him like himself.' I now am taking this kinswoman of mine, not because of lust, but with sincerity. Grant that she and I may find mercy and that we may grow old together." And they both said, "Amen, Amen." Then they went to sleep for the night. 144
2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude." 145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:
The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation. 146
Esran said:Well, I'll have a lot of confessing to do once I officially join the Church. Wow I've sinned a lot.
What happens if you can't remember some of your sins and thus not confess them? Are you condemned? There's so many of them, how can you remember them all?
Help please!
When a thirty-year old accepts the Lord Jesus and repents of sin, that doesn't mean they must recall every previous sin to accept forgiveness.
Is this something that the RCC stance has changed over time, like with Vatican II?
ShiFuBill said:What is the Orthodox opinion of mutual touching yourself and oral sex within marriage?
This, like the topic of masturbation in general, isn't something that you're likely to find treatises written on.ShiFuBill said:What is the Orthodox opinion of mutual touching yourself and oral sex within marriage?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?