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AbbaLove

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PastorMike said:
Ok, let me ask this question then ... does Faith come by hearing the Word of God or does Faith come by hearing the Anointed Word?
Click to expand...

Truthfrees​
​
(already answered your double-speak question)​


John 1:1-5,14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Truthfrees believes the Holy Bible is the inspired/anointed Word of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Your double-speak comes off as disingenuous. Do you study the Bible to prove your theology or do you let the LIVING WORD study you to show yourself approved to God?

2 Timothy 2:14-16 NASB
14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,

 
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PastorMike

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It was people like you I was trying to avoid in the first place, that's why I was looking for an original languages thread because I want to talk to people who want to understand the word not people who assume they already know everything...

And if you had taken the time to read the thread, there are two different Greek translations on says the word of God and the other says the word of Christ... that is what we are discussing... not "double speak" but different Greek translations...

BTW this is the word of faith forum and according to the rules you should only be posting here for fellowship...
 
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AbbaLove

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The Word of God and the Word of Christ are one and the same (see Truthfrees post).

My Christian Faith isn't hinged on some denomination or movement, but rather on the WORD of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in total agreement (3-in-1).

Both translations are correct. The WOF Movement has always believed that Christ Jesus is both the Son of God and God the Son.

2 Timothy 2:14-16 NASB
14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,
 
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PastorMike

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AbbaLove said:
The Word of God and the Word of Christ are one and the same (see Truthfrees post).
Click to expand...

And there is the problem, and the reason why I was asking for someone who KNOWS the original language... how could the word Christ and the word God be the same thing...

The two words are Christos and Theos and they are most certainly not the same thing... So back to my OP someone who knows the original language and is willing to discuss the reasons why they are different not just accept everything you are told...

So please back out of this conversation, I didn't ask for your input and from now on I don't want it, I want to discuss these and other verses with LIKE MINDED people, that is why we are in the WoF forum...
 
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hhodgson

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Uh-oh Pastor Mike...

Are you guilty of "double speak" or "double talk?" If I get the interpretation right that means that you are guilty of the following...

misleads
distorts reality
pretends to communicate
makes the bad seem good
avoids or shifts responsibility
makes the negative appear positive
creates a false verbal map of the world
limits, conceals, corrupts, and prevents thought
makes the unpleasant appear attractive or tolerable
creates incongruity between reality and what is said or not said

How do you like that arrangement? I like what William Lutz says,"Doublespeak is not an accident or a "slip of the tongue." Instead, it is a deliberate, calculated misuse of language.

Hmmm... Is this the PastorMike we all know and been of this forum since 2005? How many posts do you have Pastor? Wow... Almost 6,900. I bet that over the years you have a few hundred friends that could speak up in your defense and say that an accusation of "doublespeak" against you (according to the attributes listed above) would be nonsense.

Apparently, God gives some the "gift of reading heart intentions" of what we are trying to accomplish. Hmmm... I might be guilty of a few of those attributes.


To top it off... I also seen the word disingenuous. This means that you are not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

And here's a few extra Btw, just to throw in...

Insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious, hypocritical. I think that about covers it don't it? Hmmm... I might be guilty of a few of those. I guess it goes back to "casting the first stone" kind of thing.

Just for everyone's information. Here is what I am guilty of from time to time. It's baiting someone on the forum. "Oh my! But, many people do it, even on here in our house. When it comes to forum baiting, Yes, (I'm guilty) But, It all depends on how the baiting is done and what is the "intent and purpose. One may say what other way is there?

My purpose for "baiting" on this forum is NOT the flaming type, nor do I troll bait. How about using baiting methods to simply stimulate discussions? I may purposely bait someone who is MUCH more knowledgeable than I am on a "particular issue" just to bring the other poster's knowledge in the discussion. Why? Simple. I gain his/her knowledge which is also benefits others in the discussion... but, most importantly, we minister to the "viewer, seeker and a few lurkers" that sneak in behind the scenes. Sometimes we tend to forget that.

That's why we are here and PastorMike as you know and do... to minister and get ministered to. You have done more that your share of ministering the Gospel on CF. Not to mention that you pastor of a thriving Church in Northern Ireland. I would encourage any of our "newbies" to check out your Church web site...Newry Christian Centre - A Place of Love and Healing!

You are and have been a BLESSING to us on WoF and it's not by what you have done... It's what God has done and continues to do through your obedience to Him.

Thank You, Pastor Mike and thanks for returning HOME...

Walk in The Blessing,

Harry...
​
.
 
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PastorMike

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Thank you my friend...
 
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AbbaLove

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Double-speak or double-talk was definitely the wrong choice as you have plainly and justly made me aware. Thank you for taking time to post your well expressed reply. I deserved no less and probably a thorough scolding which you did in nice manner. My intent was not to bait or troll, but rather to point out that the two translations are not at odds with each other. Certainly see that my use of "disingenuous" is questionable, presumptuous and uncalled for. Don't understand that what seems so obvious to myself and Truthfrees is not obvious to another WOF Believer

Truthfrees has said it about as plain as plain can be ...

The Word of God and the Word of Christ are one and the same. I always assumed that those of WOF believed this to be true without questioning ~ Three Persons In ONE Divine Essence

If it were possible I'd display a dozen faith icons, one of which would be WOF.

 
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PastorMike

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You are missing the point... God is a trinity but the father is not the son and the son is not the Holy Spirit, so in this passage is it talking about the word of God or the word of Christ, all I want to know from someone who knows Greek is in the original translation is it God or Christ...

Let me break it down real simple G-O-D does not spell Christ,

Is the original word God or Christ, I am not looking for opinions just facts is the correct Greek word Christos or Theos, you think that would be a simple question...
 
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now faith

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God's Word will shine through any translation when the Holy Spirit guides your study.
Watch a Dad Hagin Prayer to open a service in one of his videos ,he prays in KJ.

I have noticed on a topic he would say QUOTE: on this word another translation says....

Jessie Duplantis is very diplomatic in telling people he prefers the KJ,he sites his reason it's more poetic.

It is a very sore topic from both ways.

If I would choose another Bible to read I would choose one that did not delete or diminish the Devine nature of Jesus Christ.

Here is a link that will help:Walter Veith (14A) Changing the Word /Total Onslaught - YouTube
Video for walter veith total onslaught on god's word

Walter is not WOF but has done a great job with this topic .
 
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now faith

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The "Received Text"
Down through history, long before the advent of the printing press, men made copies of the Scriptures by hand. However, they did not all do so with the same attitude toward the Scriptures. Many made their copies with a sense of spiritual awe, not daring to change a word, because it was the Word of God. Archaeologists have found thousands of these copies from all over the ancient world, and been amazed at how they agree! Truly God did preserve His Word in His church. The text they give us is often called by one of the following names:
Textus Receptus (Latin for "Received Text")
Byzantine Text - because of the part of the world in which we find it
Antiochan Text - the church at Antioch used it

The "Alexandrian Text"
However in Alexandria, Egypt, a group of "scholars" thought they could do better. When they made their copies, they made "corrections" that they thought better presented what the Scriptures should say. Some of their errors were gross blunders (like quoting Malachi and calling it Isaiah) but others were more subtle (slight word changes to take away the deity of Christ). They removed verses they didn't like. The Alexandrian copyists had one more characteristic … they couldn't agree with each other! Their copies differ not only from the vast majority of existing Scripture texts, but even from each other. A very small number of these manuscripts exist today. This is called the Alexandrian Text.
 
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now faith

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The word theos was not God’s personal name.

One must keep in mind that the word theos which is used in the Greek text of the LXX and the NT, is a mere Greek word. Among the Greek, it was not used only of the true God who is in Heaven – rather the opposite: There were many theoi in the Greek idol worship system, and even kings and others were called theoi. (Theoi is a plural form of theos.)
 
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now faith

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Whenever you have confusion in translation,the culprit is not the translation.
The culprit is the opinion of the translator.

God is not the author of confusion,the critical text used by Westcott and Hort is.

The meaning of Christ as often used by Paul was Christ Jesus.

Just as there are Hebrew names for God such as El Shaddi,[God Almighty] the contextual meaning for Christ is Messiah.

He was not the Messiah of the Hebrew tradition,their belief was he would be the anointed one,for their deliverance.
They believed he would be Human empowered by God.

They forgot the promise to Abraham in him becoming the father of many nations.

No anointing of a Human could replace the perfection of God himself,He was God the Messiah.
 
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AbbaLove

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PastorMike said:
Is the original word God or Christ, I am not looking for opinions just facts is the correct Greek word Christos or Theos, you think that would be a simple question...
Click to expand...
From the replies by now faith it would seem that the answer isn't as simple as the question.

Hebrews 11 is known as the Faith chapter. So, in the context of the several examples (OT) listed by Paul “the Word of God” seems a most appropriate translation/interpretation.

In the Gospels, Jesus says, “My sheep listen to my Voice; I know them, and they follow Me.” So, in this NT context “Christ” is an appropriate translation/interpretation. The NLT presents the perspective of the personal relationship we have in Christ, so it would stand to reason that “Christ” would be used. We might also expect "Christ" in the ESV and NIV.

Romans 10:17 NLT
So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.
 
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hhodgson

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Harry...
AbbaLove said:
If it were possible I'd display a dozen faith icons, one of which would be WOF.
Click to expand...

AbbaLove... your answer to my post shows your very gracious and understanding. Thank you for being a part of Word of Faith. If you believe our SOP then you are welcome to join us. BTW... just (one) WoF icon would be enough. I don't think the icon is a 100% requirement but there were some blood, sweat and tears in it's creation over the years.

Pssst! (Trying to lure them back home... the home that THEY helped create over the years but left for various reasons.) Time as we know it is very short and we need to work together for the troubles ahead until Jesus comes and takes us to our ETERNAL home.

Please be patient with us... we haven't arrived yet, nor will we ever until that final trumpet is blown. But, until then... we press forward.

Once again... welcome!

Walk in The Blessing,

Harry...
​
 
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AbbaLove

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Was This Roman Centurion A WOF Believer?​

Luke 7:8-9 KJV
8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great FAITH, no, not in Israel.


Was The Woman With An Issue Of Blood A WOF Believer When Healed?​
Luke 8:43-48 KJV
43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy FAITH hath made thee whole; go in peace.

Was Kenneth E. Hagin a WOF Believer When Healed?​
Kenneth Hagin mediated on the Words of Christ Jesus (Mark 11:24) for several weeks, if not months, while he was bedfast with an incurable blood disease and heart ailment. Eventually, his FAITH in the Words of Christ resulted in the manifestation of his healing.

I liked Pastor Ben Conway's account of the woman doctor that took patient's home that the hospital said were terminally ill and incurable. Through mediating over and over on a few key scriptures those terminally ill patients with FAITH improved and some were completely healed.

As Christians why do we need to ponder whether the correct translation is “Word of God” or Word of Christ” since we have Christ’s Word and His Spirit abiding in us.​

I do agree with the WOF SOP(SOF). Because of Pastor Mike's last reply to me it's best if i leave. My understanding of FAITH isn't dependant on displaying a WOF faith icon or attending a so-called WOF Church.
 
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Truthfrees

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Good question.
 
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hhodgson

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PastorMike said:
This me bowing out of my own thread... have fun...
Click to expand...

If everyone on Word of Faith (past, present and future) had a choice to see who bows out... It would be unaminous... not you!

​
 
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Truthfrees

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Yes. Sometimes we wof have a background of similar teachings and almost speak a shorthand.

EG. WOF know what "blessed to be a blessing" means. It's a shorthand for an entire teaching on covenant blessing, prospering for a specific purpose, promises of prosperity and authority, etc.

Our teachings take entire books or tape series to properly understand, and can't possibly be understood in 1 or 2 posts in our forum.

Those who haven't studied our teachings disagree with our shorthand phrases.

This creates many unnecessary disagreements between wof and others.

 
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Truthfrees

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There is a forum that teaches the original languages. I'll try to find it and post it for you.



Until then, here's a member who knows and speaks several languages offering a free Greek course for any who're interested. He might know the answer.


And here's a link to the Classic Hebrew forum: http://www.christianforums.com/f1031/

Still looking for Greek.
 
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