Is the law of God found in the Old Testament or the New Testament?
Is being a homosexual a violation of the law of God?
JLB
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Most SDA believes that The Law of God is the ten commandments. They also believe that Law of God is distinguished from the Law of Moses.
So, they do believe that you can be saved by keeping the law of God.
Create a thread and I'll be glad to join you concerning theses questions. (off topic in this thread.)Is the law of God found in the Old Testament or the New Testament?
Is being a homosexual a violation of the law of God?
JLB
BothIs the law of God found in the Old Testament or the New Testament?
Yes, but what difference does it make if you believe the law of God and the law of Moses are one and the same? And if not, then what is your point, besides vying for the Guinness World Record for trolling?Is being a homosexual a violation of the law of God
Rewind: You posted Rom 11 with no comments. I said Amen to the word of God.You're seeing what you want to see. You should really practice what you preach in your signature.
So your takeaway from Romans 11 is that God is feeding two different plans of salvation from the root of a single tree. We don't get the same promises as they and they don't get righteousness by faith. We're 2nd-class children of God and He's only saving us for the Jews' sake. We're just pawns in a game He's playing with Jewish people. If any or all of this isn't what you believe feel free to correct me.
I'm not sure what in Rom 11 gives you that idea.Jesse Johnson said: ↑
So you agree that the church and Israel are the same thing.
You'll be OKBy the way, this idea that Scripture is easy to understand is baloney. Everybody learns from other people. Human beings are generally too stubborn to look at It objectively. Very few people truly hunger and thirst after righteousness. The Bible is full of verses that say God hides Its meaning from the proud and self-sufficient. It's not even a matter of whether I am or not, but to what extent, in what manner, and what I am doing about it today, right now.
Personally and honestly, most of the time I'm running on fumes of the Spirit, and head knowledge that I have stored up from when I was more devout. I don't think there's even any virtue in admitting that, but I can't justify what I know isn't right. What I'm really saying when I get out of hand flaming people is actually "You must sin as I sin or you must not sin at all." There you go. Full disclosure.
These are tough times we live in. I would not mind talking with you about all these questions you have. I don't know everything but I can show you why I disagree and agree with you.But I'm telling you because I can't sleep at night knowing what I know and not warning people about it. All of this dispensation/covenant theology didn't exist before 1900. And the idea that the ten commandments were replaced by a pile of "Love one another" proof texts would have been laughed into oblivion by any Christian 100 years ago. Where I come from in the Bible Belt it would be more like 50 years ago.
You mean well. We'll talk.When the great calamity(s) come and we're being told that the world has to turn back to God and the best way to do that would be to shut everything down every Sunday, watch out! You're going to see the end of religious liberty practically overnight. Read "The Great Controversy." All the Seventh-day Adventist church represents is the culmination of the Protestant Reformation (which has been abandoned by evangelicals). It's that simple. You have a God-given right to believe anything you want to. I wouldn't deny anyone that. I'm a little rough around the edges but I'd give my life for religious liberty. And I don't mean the right to mandate prayer in schools or any other kind of political nonsense. But I've done my duty in this post.
You have no idea what you're talking about. And who are these Sabbath-keepers of which you speak who have murderous intentions?
Is the law of God found in the Old Testament or the New Testament?
Is being a homosexual a violation of the law of God?
JLB
So glad you are here to keep me in line Jesse.Could be. Happens all the time. Not limited to any faith group so, as usual, you're veering off-topic.
If I were an Adventist I wouldn't mention her either. Many SDA pastors use the term "my favorite author" so that those unsuspecting listeners won't know they are quoting Ellen. She is the prophet of the SDA church for goodness sake. She is the last word. Why hide her under a basket? God has supposedly given you a blessing. The problem is so many men have really dug into her writings and found so much falsehood that the church has hid her under a basket. Mormons are proud of their prophet, Joe Smith. Methodists are proud of their founder John Wesley.Here, as is even more usual, you've run off the rails in the most typical of your ways. You inject your contempt for the most influential pioneer/leader of the Adventist church, Ellen G. White, into very nearly every discussion in which you participate, which is very nearly always about refuting Adventism, even though virtually no Adventist promotes the writings/views of Mrs. White outside of the Adventist-specific forums unless explicitly asked about them.
Jesse, I am not on a forum that is about the men you mention. I have not studied what those men taught. Let those who are learned disagree with what those men taught.You wouldn't get away with berating any other prominent or historic church figure and I think you know that. If you believe otherwise, just try it with some other doctrine/denomination/leader combination (Calvin, Luther, Wesley, The Pope, etc.) with which you disagree, with the same contempt you show for Mrs. White and the Adventist church and see how that works out for you.
Should I be grateful?I'm reminded of when I was a young fella, and I enjoyed watching professional wrestling. A big favorite of mine was a guy named Ric Flair. They called him "The Dirtiest Player In The Game." I wouldn't call you that,
I just tell it like it is Jesse. Call it what you will, I could care less what you think. I reveal to you and all the readers of the forum what she wrote. Why is it you will not defend what she wrote instead of trashing me for revealing what the church believes because of her writings?but this EGW-bashing thing you do is pretty lowdown. You do it with sardonic sarcasm, condescension, and obvious contempt. You'll doubtless deny it, but everybody can see it. I know that because I haven't gotten a single signal from even one of my fellow adherents that I'm wrong in calling you out for it.
Neither am I Jesse, that is why I go to the source of the church's teachings that I believe are incorrect.I am not in the least bit afraid to call sin by its right name.
I guess revealing the real truth could provoke those who believe they have the truth. As far as accusing, I think you need to clear that up. You accuse me right? Since the accusing is on the other foot you seem to be thriving on committing that sin.You habitually accuse and provoke the brethren.
I don't like turning others in for bashing me because I know revealing other than what they believe would cause them to react. I cannot control how others respond to what I write. You certainly have not responded well, BUT I understand. Years ago I wouldn't have either.But I have a feeling that reporting you for it would get me banned instantly,
Why are you so worried Jesse? All the accusations you have made about me has not gotten you banned. Those doing the banning are understanding people who love God and their fellow man. They understand that I have upset you with my revealing the church's position on certain beliefs. It is the church's teachings not the members that I have a problem with. I am sure you are a nice person when you are not subject to those that are critical of your beliefs.and since it seems it's been going on for years, nothing more than getting banned would come of it.
I am not on the forum to make me feel better. That is a misconception you conjured. I do not judge and as far as trashing I guess anytime someone disagrees with what others write they could say it is trashing.Call it judging, trashing, whatever you like, if it makes you feel or look better.
Which one are you using?There is more than one biblical definition of the word "judge."
Wow! If I were easily provoked that statement would do it. I commend you on the good try, but it is simply not true.The love of which you speak is reserved for anyone and anyone but Sabbath-keepers,
Since tithing was part of the Law I will take the opportunity to discuss the "tithing" system of the SDA church. The Adventist system doesn't resemble the system God gave to Israel. The Israelite tithing system was limited to those who raise livestock and /or crops. It was never paid in shekels, it was paid in actual crops and animals to the Levite priesthood. The Levite priesthood then tithed, from those proceeds, to the poor. Jesus would not have been a tithe payer because He didn't raise crops and/or animals. Now came along the little struggling flock of Adventists and their collections were not enough for the hierarchy, including James and Ellen and the instituted the SDA tithing system. Everyone connected to the church was/is required to return 10% of their earnings. Two things Ellen wrote about would keep a person out of heaven, one was not paying an honest tithe. Honest tithing didn't include everyone. What hierarchy did was to initiate a dishonest tithing system nothing like what God had the Israelites to do and add a penalty of losing their eternal reward. Under the new and better covenant Christians are to give as we have been blessed. Churches that use the new covenant systems giving guide are certainly blessed. Those who demand a false tithe are deceiving the laity that has not studied that scripture on the subject.and all because you eventually resented being taught and expected to give 10% of what God blessed you with back to Him.
There you go again "evidently" making a statement that is not truthful. I could show you my checkbook, but I really don't care what you believe I expect.You evidently expect the Gospel to go to the world for free.
If I allowed the church to bully me into paying anything to the conference it was because I didn't know better. I was hoodwinked because I didn't take the time to study the real truth. If a person out of their heart feels the need to give 10% or 50% it is a blessing. To demand 10% from a person is a sin.If you allowed the church to bully you into paying more than 10% to the Conference, that's on you, not the world church, nor EGW.
Proper money management? There was not enough money to manage. I was taught that the tithe and offerings came off the top and feeding the kids came after that. The pastors and hierarchy had to be paid.If paying 10% was too much for you, the answer to that problem was faith cultivation and/or proper money management. There is no third way.
I had kinda the same experience. Soon after we joined the church I got laid off for six months. No one from the church helped us except a SDA anesthesiologist didn't charge us for the birth of our third child during that six months. The SDA delivery doctor did.I've been down that same road. I've worked 3 jobs at times. I worked graveyard shift (10-12 hrs/day) so I could drive the kids from our church and community in a broken-down Dodge mini-van back and forth (132 miles/day) to parochial school for years. I've been jobless and disabled. No one from the church ever helped me, but God (not Mrs. White) is able to and did provide for that which He asks of me. One person (whom I just love to pieces) let me borrow his pickup truck when the wheel fell off of my 15-year-old car while driving one day. My uncle-in-law left the church over this same issue, but he has come back.
Glad that you are and pray that you will never be destitute.Today, I'm financially sound. Tomorrow, I could be destitute.
Yes, I was informed that my unemployment check should be tithed.10% of my destitution would go to the storehouse.
I am happy for you.I return tithe directly from my bank to the local conference treasurer automatically, just like withholding tax. I offer another 5% in the collection plate. It is the least I can do. The Gospel does not go to the world for free and churches have bills to pay. We have a brand-new beautiful church where I live and it's completely paid for.
Ellen could say anything she pleased and most would either agree or stay mum because she would come down on them with her wrath as can be read in the nine volumes of the "testimonies". She stated that we would have to go it alone at the end time. Jesus would withdraw covering for us. That statement is diametrically opposed to what Jesus said. Jesus said He will be with us always. Now Jesse you have to make up your mind as who to believe.Agreed. And neither did Mrs. White. The Priest's duties (even as mediator) have an end. But the benefits which the atonement provides are eternal. If you'd ever read this you'd know that:
You did a great job indeed making that very colorful. Not to throw ice on the statement, but can you prove she didn't copy that from the writings of some other writer? You never really know because she certainly did read a lot of other authors and then used their writings as given to her by God through her angel."The blood of Christ is the eternal antidote for sin. The offensive character of sin is seen in what it cost the Son of God in humiliation, in suffering and death. All the worlds behold in Him a living testimony to the malignity of sin, for in His divine form He bears the marks of the curse. He is in the midst of the throne as a Lamb that hath been slain. The redeemed will ever be vividly impressed with the hateful character of sin, as they behold Him who died for their transgressions. The preciousness of the Offering will be more fully realized as the blood-washed throng more fully comprehend how God has made a new and living way for the salvation of men, through the union of the human and the divine in Christ.
The death of Christ upon the cross made sure the destruction of him who has the power of death, who was the originator of sin. When Satan is destroyed, there will be none to tempt to evil; the atonement will never need to be repeated; and there will be no danger of another rebellion in the universe of God. That which alone can effectually restrain from sin in this world of darkness, will prevent sin in heaven. The significance of the death of Christ will be seen by saints and angels. Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Shall we not then exalt the cross of Christ? The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God. The plan of salvation, making manifest the justice and love of God, provides an eternal safeguard against defection in unfallen worlds, as well as among those who shall be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Our only hope is perfect trust in the blood of Him who can save to the uttermost all that come unto God by Him. The death of Christ on the cross of Calvary is our only hope in this world, and it will be our theme in the world to come."--The Signs of the Times, December 30, 1889
Yes, but what difference does it make if you believe the law of God and the law of Moses are one and the same? And if not, then what is your point, besides vying for the Guinness World Record for trolling?
1) The Old Testament
2) No
I consider your arguments as truths.The law of God is found in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
Yes, Homosexuality is a sin, that will send you to hell.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Going to Church on Sunday rather than Saturday is not a sin.
JLB
1) The Old Testament
2) No
Going to Church on Sunday rather than Saturday is not a sin.JLB
Not keeping God's seventh day Sabbath as a Holy day of rest of God's 4th commandment is what defines sin according to the scriptures *EXODUS 20:8-11.
Quoting the law of Moses tells us you believe Christians are required to keep the law of Moses in order to be saved.
Do you know that keeping the law of Moses without becoming physically circumcised is useless?
In addition, the law of Moses requires that you offer a burnt offering for the Sabbath, lambs in their first year, as well as a grain and drink offering.
And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10
Does your organization require its members to do this each sabbath?
JLB
Who are the following verses addressed to LGW?According to the scriptures going to church any day of the week is not sin. It never has been the issue and is simply a distraction. Not keeping God's seventh day Sabbath as a Holy day of rest of God's 4th commandment is what defines sin according to the scriptures *EXODUS 20:8-11.
Who are the following verses addressed to LGW?
EX 20: 7 And God spake all these words, saying, 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Hint:
EX 20: 1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
One thing for sure God never imposed the Sabbath requirement on any other nation or people or if He did He is keeping it to Himself. Who gave you or your church the right to tell us it is a sin not to observe it? Overstepping your bounds a bit there LGW since not even our sovereign God has never revealed to us that we have to "keep" it.
Actually, you have put yourself under a defunct law that, in no way, you can keep from breaking.
What's not hard to understand is that the commandment to love your neighbor fulfills the law. If I love you, would murder be an option for me? Your argument undermines what the gospel teach. You have no choice because of your doctrine is literally the ten commandments.Not very hard Bob, surprised you do not know the answer. Or are you trying to argue that all the 10 Commandments are not a requirement for Christian living? Are you free to go out and murder someone now Bob? God's ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow his Word. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL today we have no part in God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. Let me ask you Bob who were the people that God gave the 10 commandments to? Yep you guessed it. All those who came out of the land of Egypt. So what is your point? Are you trying to argue that everyone who did not leave Egypt can go out and lie, steal, commit adultery, make idols, have other Gods, dishonor their parents, commit murder, covet and break God's Sabbath? Can you see where your argument is leading you dear friend? Yep away from God and his Word.
Hope this helps.
Right on Cribstyl. Millions upon millions of people around the World have never heard of the ten commandments and yet have peaceful societies. LGWs preconceived beliefs leave him no choice but to try to negate the real truth we continuously post.What's not hard to understand is that the commandment to love your neighbor fulfills the law. If I love you, would murder be an option for me? Your argument undermines what the gospel teach. You have no choice because of your doctrine is literally the ten commandments.
I didn't ask you because I didn't know the answer LGW. The ten commandments were not given to the Gentiles period. If they had been we would see some sign that at some time there would have been some records indicating such. Why are you trying to impose something for Christians to do that God has never asked but one nation to do? Are you and your church somehow able to teach something that is not Biblical and think you will be exonerated? I know that the SDA prophet taught what you proclaim, but she is widely known for making big mistakes.Not very hard Bob, surprised you do not know the answer.
It is a fact LGW. Your feeble attempt to discredit the writings of the Apostle Paul in 2Cor 3:6-11 are well noted. The ten commandments were the ministry of death and are done away. The requirement for Christian living goes way beyond the ten commandments. The Royal law of Love, you know, the one that includes the supreme sacrifice of laying down our lives for others.Or are you trying to argue that all the 10 Commandments are not a requirement for Christian living?
Sick uncalled for question LGW. You should know better.Are you free to go out and murder someone now Bob?
That is a bunch of malarkey. Israel is defunct. When we accept Jesus and His salvation we are grafted into Him. He gives life and eternal life.God's ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow his Word. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL today we have no part in God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.
More sick reasoning. First of all those commandments that Paul named as the ministry of death were transitory. Jesus, at Pentecost, poured out the free gift He previously promised. Paul in 2Cor 3 calls it the ministry of the Spirit. The ministry of the Spirit supersedes the Law and is for eternity not just a temporary fix of a few sins that the Israelites could commit. The ministry of death didn't even include that it was a sin not to Love God or their fellow man.Let me ask you Bob who were the people that God gave the 10 commandments to? Yep you guessed it. All those who came out of the land of Egypt. So what is your point? Are you trying to argue that everyone who did not leave Egypt can go out and lie, steal, commit adultery, make idols, have other Gods, dishonor their parents, commit murder, covet and break God's Sabbath? Can you see where your argument is leading you dear friend? Yep away from God and his Word.
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