on tongues?

stelow · Dec 15, 2009

1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

AndOne · Dec 15, 2009

stelow said:
1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

One can easily make the argument that we are still waiting for the perfect to come.

PROPHECYKID · Dec 15, 2009

I believe that it exist but is widely misinterpreted. Some people use tongues as a way of indicating how spirit filled you are. That is a load of garbage. They say that if you have never spoken in tongues you need to pray more and you are not quite there yet. The biblical perspective on tongues is that it is simply languages. Tongues in the bible has always meant languages. So the gift of speaking in tongues must be the gift of speaking in other languages. The experience at the day of Pentecost clearly demonstrates that.

LiturgyInDMinor · Dec 15, 2009

PROPHECYKID said:
I believe that it exist but is widely misinterpreted. Some people use tongues as a way of indicating how spirit filled you are. That is a load of garbage. They say that if you have never spoken in tongues you need to pray more and you are not quite there yet. The biblical perspective on tongues is that it is simply languages. Tongues in the bible has always meant languages. So the gift of speaking in tongues must be the gift of speaking in other languages. The experience at the day of Pentecost clearly demonstrates that.

Good words!!

nobdysfool · Dec 15, 2009

Behe's Boy said:
One can easily make the argument that we are still waiting for the perfect to come.

It's more than just a "good argument", it's a bona fide FACT! Look around. Where do you see perfection?

A New Dawn · Dec 15, 2009

nobdysfool said:
It's more than just a "good argument", it's a bona fide FACT! Look around. Where do you see perfection?

The New Testament is what I believe "the perfection" is. That is why, where the NT is available, the gifts are not necessary. Where the NT is not available, the gifts are necessary.

nobdysfool · Dec 15, 2009

A New Dawn said:
The New Testament is what I believe "the perfection" is. That is why, where the NT is available, the gifts are not necessary. Where the NT is not available, the gifts are necessary.

I think I understand the way you are looking at it, but that certainly isn't in keeping with what Paul was trying to convey. Christ Himself is the Perfection, when He returns. Until then, imperfection abounds....

LiturgyInDMinor · Dec 15, 2009

nobdysfool said:
Christ Himself is the Perfection, when He returns. Until then, imperfection abounds....

That's how I've always read it.

AndOne · Dec 15, 2009

nobdysfool said:
It's more than just a "good argument", it's a bona fide FACT! Look around. Where do you see perfection?

I know you're right... I was trying to not make waves...

stelow · Dec 15, 2009

nobdysfool said:
I think I understand the way you are looking at it, but that certainly isn't in keeping with what Paul was trying to convey. Christ Himself is the Perfection, when He returns. Until then, imperfection abounds....

That just doesn't make sense that Paul would need to tell us the gifts would cease at Christ Jesus return.

AndOne · Dec 15, 2009

stelow said:
That just doesn't make sense that Paul would need to tell us the gifts would cease at Christ Jesus return.

Sure it does. When Christ returns everything will be made perfect and there will be no need for the gifts. Until then it is certainly the case.

stelow · Dec 15, 2009

Behe's Boy said:
Sure it does. When Christ returns everything will be made perfect and there will be no need for the gifts. Until then it is certainly the case.

No it doesn't not make sense that Paul would need to tell us that, it would be a given that the gifts would not be needed then. It's most certainly not the case.

AndOne · Dec 15, 2009

stelow said:
No it doesn't not make sense that Paul would need to tell us that, it would be a given that the gifts would not be needed then. It's most certainly not the case.

So you are saying that everything has been made perfect now? Are you saying you are living in a perfect state now?

cygnusx1 · Dec 15, 2009

A New Dawn said:
The New Testament is what I believe "the perfection" is. That is why, where the NT is available, the gifts are not necessary. Where the NT is not available, the gifts are necessary.

sister it isn't "perfection" as todays word , but "complete" as in that which was in part is now complete ..... instead of piecemeal . childish things have past away .

those who think "perfection" means without fault or without sin must have no use for this scripture ;

2 Timothy

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

AndOne · Dec 15, 2009

cygnusx1 said:
sister it isn't "perfection" as todays word , but "complete" as in that which was in part is now complete ..... instead of piecemeal . childish things have past away .

those who think "perfection" means without fault or without sin must have no use for this scripture ;

2 Timothy

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

That's a cheap shot, my friend. You know that is not the case.

I realize we don't see eye-to-eye on this issue but it is no excuse to make such a statment - which seems a bit advesarial to me.

cygnusx1 · Dec 15, 2009

Behe's Boy said:
That's a cheap shot, my friend. You know that is not the case.

I realize we don't see eye-to-eye on this issue but it is no excuse to make such a statment - which seems a bit advesarial to me.

I will just stick to the case at hand BB instead of getting bogged down in accusations and stuff , perfection is unatainable for every single person in this life time , yes ? So why does scripture state it is able to make us "perfect" ......................

stelow · Dec 15, 2009

Behe's Boy said:
That's a cheap shot, my friend. You know that is not the case.

I realize we don't see eye-to-eye on this issue but it is no excuse to make such a statment - which seems a bit advesarial to me.

The way you interpreted the scripture, as though your interpretation was certainly the case, even though others had already disagreed with you in this thread. You keep saying: "that is not the case", so it's like since you keep saying that, we have to agree with you.

nobdysfool · Dec 15, 2009

I'll pray for you.....in tongues.....

xapis · Dec 16, 2009

The discussion here on the passage in 1 Cor. 13 lacks reflection on the eschatological implications of what happened on the Day of Pentecost (cf. post #5). It doesn't account for "the 'already/not yet' paradox of the coming of the kingdom in the death and resurrection of Christ."

[T]he kingdom and its blessings are "already" present in believers: in their union with Christ they have died, and their life is "hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:3). Yet the kingdom is "not yet" here in its fullest and most glorious form; this awaits the second advent of Christ.

SOURCE: Fighting the Good Fight: A Brief History of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church by D. G. Hart and John Muether

My point in my previous post is that the sign gifts hold redemptive-historical significance and necessarily ceased with the end of the apostolic era. There is no longer a place in the church for miraculous healings (which typified the spiritual "healings" and new life we have in union with Christ), words of wisdom, prophecies, interpreted tongues ("What more can He say than to you He hath said?"), etc. We must not take the miracles of the apostles recorded in Acts as normative for today. We do not have little apostles running around healing people, do we? No, and that was never the gifts' revelatory and didactic purpose. The purpose was "preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness," i.e. the Word of the Lord going forth to all nations "unhindered" (quoting from Acts 28:31, NASB). The significance of the sign gifts is wrapped up in the spread of the gospel and the establishment of the early church. Looking for such miraculous sign gifts today is akin to looking for another crucified Messiah.

heymikey80 · Dec 18, 2009

Behe's Boy said:
One can easily make the argument that we are still waiting for the perfect to come.

What? Your church isn't perfect? (Remember this the next time you're provoked by your church or its members.)

"It'll take a miracle"

Generally, the Bible shows periods of time when God is perfectly capable of doing miracles in certain ways -- and doesn't. For practical purposes I look at the church today, and figure we're in a time like that.

on tongues?

Legend

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

Veteran

Celtic Rite Old Catholic Church

The original! Accept no substitutes!

Bind my wandering heart to thee!

The original! Accept no substitutes!

Celtic Rite Old Catholic Church

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

Legend

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

Legend

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

Jacob the twister.....

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

Jacob the twister.....

Legend

The original! Accept no substitutes!

Soli Deo gloria!

Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

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