Oh my goodness, I think you are right!

Flipper · Apr 30, 2007

We went and visited a friend out of town and went to church with him on Sunday. He goes to a non-denominational church with contemporary music. Now, I've heard you say that most Christian Contemporary music is "me" focused, rather than God focused. Looking at the music we sing in church, while a lot of it are the words from traditional hymns with the music remixed to contemporary, meaning a matter of taste, with some Christian Contemporary, that might be a little "me" based, but nothing like we heard this past Sunday.

Now, I definitely know what "me" music is like. The first 3 songs they sang, either the word "I" or "me" was in every verse, and I'm not exaggerating. The sound was spectacular, and professional, but both my husband and I kept looking at each other with this "aha" look. We found it mildly disturbing.

Ok, Rad, Scott, Jim and others. You are right. I get it now. You can pat yourselves on the head.

Other than that, the service wasn't bad. The ministry's mission is to reach out to the "Rahabs" of the world, and reach out and open their doors to you regardless of what you look like or especially what your life was like. They want you to feel at home, which they hope makes you open to learning more about Jesus. My friend's mother is a paraplegic and disfigured from a bad viral infection when our friend was a kid, and has endured stares and discrimination from churches in the past, so I can see why they all feel home there. I don't agree with all the theology in that church (decision-based), but their heart is in the right place.

pastorjimg · Apr 30, 2007

Flipper,

I appreciated your post. I think Christians should worship at other churches now and then. We spend so much time talking/criticizing about what others are doing. I think we will go a long way in visiting other churches and walking away with a perspective of what you can appreciate about other worship services/churches and what you would perhaps do differently.

seajoy · Apr 30, 2007

Flipper said:
Now, I definitely know what "me" music is like. The first 3 songs they sang, either the word "I" or "me" was in every verse, and I'm not exaggerating.

We found it mildly disturbing.

Ok, Rad, Scott, Jim and others. You are right. I get it now. You can pat yourselves on the head.

Knowing the guys you mentioned, I don't think they will want to pat themselves on the head, but isn't it something how what they said is so true. I had Christian radio on the other day....and there was so much "me stuff" I had to change the station. It's just not good for us. The reason you felt uncomfortable is because you know this already.

But what about the folks who don't know to look for this...that's the sad part, and is why we talk about it here.

Flipper · Apr 30, 2007

seajoy said:
Knowing the guys you mentioned, I don't think they will want to pat themselves on the head, but isn't it something how what they said is so true. I had Christian radio on the other day....and there was so much "me stuff" I had to change the station. It's just not good for us. The reason you felt uncomfortable is because you know this already.

But what about the folks who don't know to look for this...that's the sad part, and is why we talk about it here.

I can't listen to christian music on the radio more than a song or two. I find the music very generic sounding - don't even get far enough to listen to the words. I do have a station programmed in, and once in awhile, I'll recognize a song we sing in church, and I'll listen to it.

I've just found that when the focus of worship is on your personal relationship with Christ, then there is just no talking about different theology. I mean, it's so easy to fall into that. Can't find love in this horrible world, but there's Christ, and He loves you no matter what. What more should there be? It's this new and wondrous thing. You tell them that Christ was always there to begin with, the Holy Spirit has always been in their hearts, and they had just been denying that all along, and they look at you like you grew another head.

That's why I liked the Baptist service I went to a few months ago, where the sermon was on baptism. The pastor actually took the time to research what other denominations practice, shared what he found, including Bible verses, shared why they (the Baptist church) practice what they do, and admonished anyone who would dare judge one's salvation by how they were baptized. Now, without going into what we believe with baptizing being directly related to salvation, you just don't hear that in an SBC Baptist church. Better than that, it prompted discussion with our friends afterwards, where we had a wide opening to go in further detail on why we don't agree with decision theology, and they actually listened. I don't think they are going to leave the Baptist church any time soon, but they no longer think we're in dangerous territory by not praying the sinners' prayer.

DaRev · Apr 30, 2007

pastorjimg said:
Flipper,

I appreciated your post. I think Christians should worship at other churches now and then. We spend so much time talking/criticizing about what others are doing. I think we will go a long way in visiting other churches and walking away with a perspective of what you can appreciate about other worship services/churches and what you would perhaps do differently.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Why would we want to go where the Gospel is not preached in its purity and the Sacraments not administered according to Christ's command? Going to such services can be very misleading to many people. I've seen it happen.

Flipper · Apr 30, 2007

DaRev said:
I disagree wholeheartedly. Why would we want to go where the Gospel is not preached in its purity and the Sacraments not administered according to Christ's command? Going to such services can be very misleading to many people. I've seen it happen.

It can give us an idea how to broach the subject with those who are being misled. I've never had an opening before in my life like I did after the Baptism sermon. It got them thinking, more than anything else I've ever said to them. I'm convinced God put me there, at that time, for that reason.

Plus, as our friend's guest this weekend, simply going to his church at his invitation, and as his guest was the polite and respectful thing to do. He wasn't asking us to answer an alter call. He wasn't asking us to give money at the offering, etc. He knew that our attending did not mean we agreed with the church's theology.

I know what it's like when someone denies our invitation to go to our church with us because they think what Lutherans preach is blasphemous. Someone even refused to go to my wedding because it was Lutheran and not what they think is "Christian."

It's that kind of high and mightiness that had kept me away from church, period, years ago.

I'm not as smart and as educated in theology as the rest of you are, so I can't just come up with things. I need to be prompted and given openings, and that's how I can converse on these subjects... with examples they can see, like their own church. I'm just trying to witness the best I can - that's the only way I know how to do it.

Zecryphon · Apr 30, 2007

"I disagree wholeheartedly. Why would we want to go where the Gospel is not preached in its purity and the Sacraments not administered according to Christ's command?"

Rev,

how do you know the Gospel is not being preached and the Sacraments are not being administered according to Christ's command, if you do not go to these churches?

"Going to such services can be very misleading to many people. I've seen it happen."

If the believer is not firmly grounded in Christ and what they believe and why they believe it, I agree. It can be very misleading and force the person to ask themselves the dangerous question of "who is right?"

DaRev · Apr 30, 2007

Flipper said:
It can give us an idea how to broach the subject with those who are being misled. I've never had an opening before in my life like I did after the Baptism sermon. It got them thinking, more than anything else I've ever said to them. I'm convinced God put me there, at that time, for that reason.

Plus, as our friend's guest this weekend, simply going to his church at his invitation, and as his guest was the polite and respectful thing to do. He wasn't asking us to answer an alter call. He wasn't asking us to give money at the offering, etc. He knew that our attending did not mean we agreed with the church's theology.

I know what it's like when someone denies our invitation to go to our church with us because they think what Lutherans preach is blasphemous. Someone even refused to go to my wedding because it was Lutheran and not what they think is "Christian."

It's that kind of high and mightiness that had kept me away from church, period, years ago.

I'm not as smart and as educated in theology as the rest of you are, so I can't just come up with things. I need to be prompted and given openings, and that's how I can converse on these subjects... with examples they can see, like their own church. I'm just trying to witness the best I can - that's the only way I know how to do it.

Attending at one's invitation is one thing. Going out of "curiosity" is another altogether.

There is a reason we are not in fellowship with heterodox church bodies. They teach and preach a certain level of heterodoxy that can be and is many times misleading.

pastorjimg · Apr 30, 2007

I know some say you shouldn't go to these non LCMS church services and I can respect that opinion. We will have to agree to disagree.

seajoy · Apr 30, 2007

pastorjimg said:
Flipper,

I think Christians should worship at other churches now and then. We spend so much time talking/criticizing about what others are doing. I think we will go a long way in visiting other churches and walking away with a perspective of what you can appreciate about other worship services/churches and what you would perhaps do differently.

I worshipped at an ELCA church on Palm Sunday, out of respect for a family where we were staying for the weekend......about the only thing I got out of it was that I'm glad I belong to the Lutheran church that I do. There wasn't a thing I appreciated about that service...except maybe that I didn't have to think about my sin at all....law was never mentioned once in the whole sermon. (not that I thought that was a good thing, really).

The music was ok....sorry to hi-jack Flipper

Flipper · Apr 30, 2007

I don't see any Jack here.

KagomeShuko · Apr 30, 2007

Flipper,

Now you know why I'm picky when it comes to Christian music and why Lutheran musicians are my favorites!

Sure, I like contemporary stuff, but mostly just for listening!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

Izdaari Eristikon · May 1, 2007

Yeah, I don't much care for the stuff they play on the Christian contemporary music stations either. There's not much life to the music. It's just boring and bland. There is plenty of good non-traditional Christian music out there, but it isn't that stuff, which is basically just elevator music with Christian lyrics.

But try some Alison Krauss. She has a voice like an angel, and this isn't a "me" song. She's not primarily a Christian artist, but what Christian songs she does are so beautiful.

Flipper · May 1, 2007

Izdaari said:
But try some Alison Krauss. She has a voice like an angel, and this isn't a "me" song. She's not primarily a Christian artist, but what Christian songs she does are so beautiful.

My new car has DVD-audio with 5 channel surround. There aren't a lot of DVD-audio disks out yet, but I've noticed more Alison Krauss available that way than any other artist. I may have to pick one up. Thanks!

My musical tastes are very eclectic. Currently in the CD changer in my car I have Fleetwood Mac, Rat Pack compilation, The Police, Nickelback, Trans-Siberian Orchestra (their only non-Christmas CD called Beethoven's Last Night) and an MP3 disk that has the soundtracks from Evita, Phantom of the Opera and Miss Saigon. The first three are DVD-audio, and the rest are just CDs, except the last one.

Christian music just doesn't have the musical depth I crave. Or rather, one song on the CD will, and the rest will have me scratching my head

jcj3803 · May 1, 2007

Flipper said:
I can't listen to Christian music on the radio more than a song or two.

I'm with you on that one. 3 out of 4 services at the church where I'm a member are contemporary format, starting with praise music. I usually try to get there 10-15 minutes late so I can avoid most of it.

Izdaari Eristikon · May 1, 2007

Flipper said:
My musical tastes are very eclectic. Currently in the CD changer in my car I have Fleetwood Mac, Rat Pack compilation, The Police, Nickelback, Trans-Siberian Orchestra (their only non-Christmas CD called Beethoven's Last Night) and an MP3 disk that has the soundtracks from Evita, Phantom of the Opera and Miss Saigon.

Mine too! Mine range from Bach to Motorhead. A few of my favorites: The Threepenny Opera, Bob Dylan (his Christian album, Slow Train Coming), Alison Krauss, Elvis Costello, Dropkick Murphys, Ry Cooder, Bob Marley, Louis Armstrong, Cab Calloway, Alan Jackson, Eminem, Bjork, Holst, Sibelius and Nine Inch Nails.

Izdaari Eristikon · May 1, 2007

jcj3803 said:
I'm with you on that one. 3 out of 4 services at the church where I'm a member are contemporary format, starting with praise music. I usually try to get there 10-15 minutes late so I can avoid most of it.

I'm going to an evening youth service at an Assembly of God church. (Normally I'd think AG is much too conservative for me, but this one is cool.) The music is Christian praise rock, Pentecostal flavor. I love it! It's the Christian elevator music, the stuff they play on Christian contemporary stations, that I can't stand.

Flipper · May 1, 2007

Izdaari said:
I'm going to an evening youth service at an Assembly of God church. (Normally I'd think AG is much too conservative for me, but this one is cool.) The music is Christian praise rock, Pentecostal flavor. I love it! It's the Christian elevator music, the stuff they play on Christian contemporary stations, that I can't stand.

It always sounds so much better live.

WildStrawberry · May 1, 2007

Izdaari said:
Mine too! <snip> Eminem, <snip>

Really? Eminem? How do you reconcile his extreme misogynistic and hate speech lyrics with your Christian beliefs?

Not wanting a fight...I'm just curious.

Kae

Izdaari Eristikon · May 1, 2007

WildStrawberry said:
Really? Eminem? How do you reconcile his extreme misogynistic and hate speech lyrics with your Christian beliefs?

Not wanting a fight...I'm just curious.

Kae

Oh, no question, Eminem is terrible in that respect. But I love him as an artist -- he's one of the most talented songwriters ever -- and I'm not scared he'll influence me. Many of his songs use some foul language but nothing I don't hear on the street anyway, and his songs that are especially misogynistic or hateful I just don't play.

Truth is I don't believe in "cocooning", i.e., sheltering myself from the non-Christian culture out there. There's lots it does that I don't agree with of course, but I think I need to be involved in it: can't minister to it if I'm not, can't change it if I'm not. The non-Christian culture needs to worry more about how I'm going to influence it. Jesus had confidence that his message could thrive in the marketplace of ideas and so do I.

Oh my goodness, I think you are right!

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