Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
He will need to ask the pastor first.How will God ever be able to penetrate that centuries old system?
So how far are we willing to take this revelation of the nature of today's church? Where are we headed with our findings? What is ahead for us? What involvement will we have?
Well, let's see!
1. First of all, ALL of god's people are responsible for this mess
2. We who know better should live it....yes, always easy to say
3. We should be actively telling other Christians about what God's word says
4. The Pastors in a particular denomination must be cessationists otherwise they wouldn't feel all this pressure & burnout which they inevitably must get. Why would a Pastor be glorified the way "he" generally is?
Same with an Evangelist today....only "they" are "in the field" so to speak while we mortals work our 9 to 5's or 8 to 4:30's.
Every Pastor needs to be told what God's word says.
If they agree, things change....If they don't the sheep leave.
Ultimately, we are dealing with the Protestant counterpart of Catholicism's & Orthodoxy's Priest model........This has been entrenched for over a thousand plus years.......It will not be an overnight thing.
Stefos
"This mess" is beyond change or redirection, I think. The much needed destruction, if the Lord was to get involved at all, would have to be on a global scale, not merely in one's own neighborhood. So widespread, so broad has been the deception that I can't see, what is perceived as the normal social and training routes, as being useful. Conventions? Movements? Revelations? It will have to come through a massive pulling away by the masses. That could only develop by disillusionment. Pastors and other so-called leaders will have to fail and fall in large numbers in a kind of domino effect. It's not like the pain of insufficiency hasn't already gained a few thousand or more proponents for change.
What must be taken out of the way if inded the church model could be used? It would still have to be revolutionized, rebuilt from the ground up, don't you think? And should we be thinking that it can actually be rebuilt? Is reform possible? That won't happen, can't happen, as long as occupations are at the helm. Centuries of old habits are indespensible to traditionalists, which could only be eliminated by ripping apart long-held, cherished notions, patterns, and even ceremonies. The ordination of pastors and priests, the collection of funds designed to keep alive the organization (organism), and the whole vision of what it means to be a church would have to be deeply reexamined, otherwise the same things will be produced. Sure, God has, in the past, spoken through the most unlikely vessels, but who wants that as a model?
Keep in mind that christendom is full of both carnal professors of Christianity, and the Apostates like Balaam --beside the real believers (the Wheat and Tares God speaks of).
The true "born again" believers need to know that not everyone who claims to be Christian is truly "of Christ" (even among so-called Pastors and other Preachers and Priests). Faithful ones need to find a sound Bible teaching church fellowship, and come to value the godly elders for counsel rather than various career hirelings.
Seems to me if the house church model is superior in that the Holy Spirit will work at revealing Jesus in a more powerful and personal way in the homes of believers than at church meetings in buildings, then more and more Christians will move to house churches. If the Holy Spirit works thru both models of church then they both will continue into the future.
Look brother....You've reached an end:
1. Why do you not respond to what I'm saying? (Not that I need an ego stroke...I'm all set)
2. Why do you not give a solution? This thread is becoming long winded.
There is no need for this thread to exist UNLESS you answer the 2 questions I just posed to you.
Everything that I've stated to you has been from a place of sincerity & straightforwardness, not nonsense.
Give me a solution or close this thread.
If the Lord is going to tear down "American Christianity" he can do so.
Let it be Lord Jesus.
If the Lord is allowing "American Christianity" to exist for his purposes,
Let it be Lord Jesus.
I reject ALL these denominations but not his people who are blood bought.
Is it a mess? YEP......A BIG ONE.
Do radical measures need to be take? YEP.....BIG ONES
Where does it start?
In you, me and every person who calls Jesus the Christ "Lord" and who's aware of biblical Christianity vs. the "Pastor model."
I just posted about the cost of following the biblical model...please read it.
Stefos
What can I do alone to change this big mess? Live the life, you say. Okay I'm living the life, now how can my little effort change the church?
I'm not suggesting a solution. I'm asking for a reasonable approach to remedy what I, and you, realize is taking place. You're telling me it's by my example, by my life, but no matter how it is lived, I feel inadequate. I, alone, cannot change this mess.
I live in an area where there are numerous places to belong, but how do I reach those assemblies and people? Pass out fliers? Picket the largest of them with portions of Viola's writings?
No, it is a loner's life for all of us who actually have chosen to call a spade a spade. We must learn to live like Moses in the back side of a desert. The present belief system intact as it is will not change in my lifetime, and surely not in a century, as I see it.
In my early days, I did a great deal of street evangelism and led many people to the Lord, but even then, I struggled with where to direct the newborn for further growth, as there was a lot of sheep stealing going on in those days between one group and another. Plus, the bulk of the teachings were out of context, unbalanced, borrowed from the loudest TV WOF personalities, and meant to keep alive the organization.
Hello,
No sir.......I'm not discussing "House Churches" I'm discussing Biblical Christianity only.
Just because you have a "house Church" doesn't mean that it follows the Biblical pattern.
You see, what this particular sub-forum has been "on" for some time is how the "Pastor runs the show at church" model is wrong.
A book called "Pagan Christianity?" by Frank Viola & George Barna describes what I'm talking about to a T.
Todays 5300 denominations was not what the Bible teaches.
It was never God's perfect will that 5300 denominations exist...No sir.
One faith, One hope, One Father over all, One gospel, One Church model.
Post post-modern America is very FAR from what the written word says and very few care.
Do you?
If you do, read the word WITHOUT your denominational conditioning or "What your pastor told you" and see what it says to you while you keep it in context.
Also, Read the letters of Paul in their chronological order & you'll see that even Paul's understanding of the Lord coming in his life changed:
Example:
Paul starts to say when first an Apostle: "Jesus is coming within our lifetimes" but towards the end of his life, he stopped saying that because he realized that the Lord wasn't coming in his lifetime! He died by beheading.
Please, read the written word & realize that you've been lied into believing a false model of fellowship & church government.
I don't write this in anger but with a desire to see you set free to live what God's word says you should naturally be in Christ & everything which accompanies that promise.
God bless you as you do
Stefos
As for me me reading the Bible with denominational conditioning, which denomination are you concern with, I've been apart of many as the Holy Spirit has led me to attend churches of close to a dozen different denominations over the years. I found believers that love Jesus in all the churches I've been apart of.
I've also change what I believe about several doctrines I was taught when I was younger. That didn't happen because some pastor said I should but because I've studied the Bible for over 45 yrs now. Its pretty well known that Paul's taught on different subjects as he wrote his epistles. I first learned that 35 yrs ago.
What is a false model of fellowship? As for false church government ... there are many different models and they all work and don't work as far as I can see.
Maybe for those of us who have been in the Lord for decades, and who thought they would one day awaken to a ministerial calling being spoken to them by God, with doors immediately opening for them -- never actually experienced it take place simply because the model was outside the will of God. Not that I desired, except when I was in my youngest days, during the first several years, did I think that model would take place in my life if I held on to strict attendance, etc. In essence, I was spared, I suppose.
I have many, many friends from the days when I underwent the most intense indoctrination one could experience to whom I still keep in touch, all of whom still have not "heard" the truth regarding organizations and the one person leadership model. One friend is now the Assoc. Music Director for the largest First Baptist Church in the city, another the leader of a small church that meets in a strip mall setting, from whom he has been able to fleece enough money to set up satellite churches in Alaska, South Africa, Bolivia and Nigeria; plus, he travels throughout the U.S. speaking at countless Holy Ghost nondenoms.
These folks, I don't think would be able to hear the call of God in their positions since the church has always been their livelihood. It is from these settings that they earn enough to pay their bills, some to a greater degree than others. Which is the hook, really. Because once the money starts rolling in, how possible is it for one to desire the correct model?
There is one meeting place I have been told, a home group, set up by former worship leaders in their house, where, if they reach more than ten believers, they split the group into another home group, but even that isn't exactly the right model, I don't think? I've been told there isn't any one person in control at their gatherings. Instead, members are asked to seek the Lord through the week to see what the Lord would have them to offer during the next meeting: a word of encouragement, a song, etc.
Actually, I've not been a part of any group that is based on the right model. So, it would be new to me to even be in those surroundings. I have only read books and heard talk of them.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?