Nothingness

Lignoba · Apr 13, 2006

So I have come to the conclusion that anything is possible, and I have had a vision oh a person talking to me, proclaiming to me that nothing is real. Not the universe, not the earth, even mankind. I really am starting to believe it. I am on a real high right now from it, and I feel next to weightlessness. Even as I type, I know that this keyboard does not exist, nor does this computer, my hands, myself. The only thing that is real it seems, is nothingness in itself.

Eudaimonist · Apr 13, 2006

Lignoba said:
Even as I type, I know that this keyboard does not exist, nor does this computer, my hands, myself. The only thing that is real it seems, is nothingness in itself.

Then what am I replying to?

SedjmNeter · Apr 13, 2006

Indeed it was out of the state of no-thing that sum-thing formed.

SHEM HETEP

TeddyKGB · Apr 13, 2006

In order to determine if something is real, we have to have previously completed the statement, "Something is real if _______."

Has this been done?

fatpie42 · Apr 13, 2006

Hmmm so everything is nothingness. This is buddhist, right?

To be quite honest, I don't see where the joy in this message lies. Even if everything is nothingness, part of that nothingness involves pain and suffering. Either you are denying the existence of pain and suffering in which case you are ignoring the truths of life and will be reminded of them soon enough, OR you are trying to reach a stage of detachment from pain and detachment in which case you are likely to find yourself detaching yourself from many great things in life during that process.

I find much more joy in the fluidity of life, suffering included, where all things are real, even those we would only consider 'appearances'.

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win · Apr 13, 2006

Lignoba said:
So I have come to the conclusion that anything is possible, and I have had a vision oh a person talking to me, proclaiming to me that nothing is real. Not the universe, not the earth, even mankind. I really am starting to believe it. I am on a real high right now from it, and I feel next to weightlessness. Even as I type, I know that this keyboard does not exist, nor does this computer, my hands, myself. The only thing that is real it seems, is nothingness in itself.

Nothingness cannot be perceived wrongly as some things.

A rope can be mistook for a snake. In this example, the perception of snake is unreal, while the rope is real.

A barren woman can never give birth to a a child. A situation of perceiving an illusory child cannot even arise in this case. That is the case with 'nothingness'.

Your hands may not be real, but if nothingness had been real, there cannot be a situation where you realize everything is unreal.

something should be there for it to be wrongfully perceived as some other things.

Please forgive me if I didn't make myself clear.

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win · Apr 13, 2006

SedjmNeter said:
Indeed it was out of the state of no-thing that sum-thing formed.

SHEM HETEP

no-thing and nothingness are different.

no-thing is just unmanifest, whereas nothingness is an oxymoron.

Something cannot come from nothingness, but something can appear to come from no-thing .

The unmanifest can be wrongfully perceieved as manifested, whereas nothingness never existed and nothing comes from it.

Lignoba · Apr 14, 2006

nothingness does exist, it is a state of non-being. It is not possible to comprehend it, but it does exist, and it exists everywhere as nothing exists.

Eudaimonist · Apr 14, 2006

Lignoba said:
nothingness does exist, it is a state of non-being. It is not possible to comprehend it, but it does exist, and it exists everywhere as nothing exists.

Then what or who am I responding to?

If I am responding to "nothing", then I'm hard pressed to see where your post came from. Only beings (things that exist, i.e. entities) create posts. This means that your post was created by something that exists -- you. If you mean something else by non-being, what do you mean?

MrGoodBytes · Apr 14, 2006

Good point. If you don't exist, what caused your OP?

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win · Apr 14, 2006

Lignoba said:
nothingness does exist, it is a state of non-being. It is not possible to comprehend it, but it does exist, and it exists everywhere as nothing exists.

Nothingness exists...
State of non-being

Perfect example of oxymorons.

You know, by definition, nothingness is non-existence.
How can non-existence exist?

How can there be a state of non-being?

If nothingness is an absolute reality, there cannot even be this false appearance of a computer, keyboard etc..

Something(which is not nothingness) absolute has to exist for it to be wrongly perceived as a hand, a key board etc.

Nothingness cannot underlie even illusions. There is no scope for illusions if nothingness is the absolute reality.

Lignoba · Apr 14, 2006

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
Nothingness exists...
State of non-being

Perfect example of oxymorons.

You know, by definition, nothingness is non-existence.
How can non-existence exist?

How can there be a state of non-being?

If nothingness is an absolute reality, there cannot even be this false appearance of a computer, keyboard etc..

Something(which is not nothingness) absolute has to exist for it to be wrongly perceived as a hand, a key board etc.

Nothingness cannot underlie even illusions. There is no scope for illusions if nothingness is the absolute reality.

There is no illusion, there is no being. We are not here. Like I said, I doubt anyone could comprehend. We do not exist. There is no void, there is nothing. It is not solid, liquid, gas, vacuumous... it is nothing. It is easy to say it is an oxymoron, but few can even imagine nothingness, and fewer still can believe in it.

Soul_Searcher · Apr 14, 2006

Hi Lignoba,

"Even as I type, I know that this keyboard does not exist, nor does this computer, my hands, myself. The only thing that is real it seems, is nothingness in itself."

Don't confuse the illusion of the universe with nothingness--they are two different things. Nothingness implies there is nothing else, but the illusion implies a greater consciousness or awareness beyond this.

There are a couple of books that go into this in very different ways: "The Disappearance of the Universe," and "The Holographic Universe."

Eudaimonist · Apr 14, 2006

Lignoba said:
There is no illusion, there is no being. We are not here. Like I said, I doubt anyone could comprehend. We do not exist. There is no void, there is nothing. It is not solid, liquid, gas, vacuumous... it is nothing. It is easy to say it is an oxymoron, but few can even imagine nothingness, and fewer still can believe in it.

Then who or what am I speaking with?

fatpie42 · Apr 14, 2006

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
Nothingness exists...

If nothingness is an absolute reality, there cannot even be this false appearance of a computer, keyboard etc..

1. If the keyboard in front of me is real, then 'something' exists. That would mean that nothing cannot exist (unless something can exist too)

2. If the keyboard in front of me is not real then I have a false belief about a keyboard. (If the belief in a keyboard is not false see point 1)

3. It might be argued that the belief about the keyboard cannot be false because it would have to be false ABOUT something and, since there is only nothing, there is nothing to be false about. Nevertheless it still remains that I am having an appearance of a keyboard and an appearance is surely something. If appearances do not count as something then we seem to have stumbled on a kind of Idealism (the epistemological kind - google 'George Berkeley') - so what?

This whole idea seems either nonsensical or trivial to me.

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win · Apr 14, 2006

fatpie42 said:
1. If the keyboard in front of me is real, then 'something' exists. That would mean that nothing cannot exist (unless something can exist too)

2. If the keyboard in front of me is not real then I have a false belief about a keyboard. (If the belief in a keyboard is not false see point 1)

3. It might be argued that the belief about the keyboard cannot be false because it would have to be false ABOUT something and, since there is only nothing, there is nothing to be false about. Nevertheless it still remains that I am having an appearance of a keyboard and an appearance is surely something. If appearances do not count as something then we seem to have stumbled on a kind of Idealism (the epistemological kind - google 'George Berkeley') - so what?

This whole idea seems either nonsensical or trivial to me.

That is my whole point. "Nothingness exists" is an oxymoron. Think you missed the oxymoron part.

JustJack! · Apr 14, 2006

I am on a real high right now...

That explains it...

Lignoba · Apr 15, 2006

JustJack! said:
That explains it...

It explains nothing. I was feeling like I was on a high from finally realizing that it is possible that nothing exists, and the ability to mildly comprehend nothingness.

Shannonkish · Apr 15, 2006

fatpie42 · Apr 15, 2006

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
That is my whole point. "Nothingness exists" is an oxymoron. Think you missed the oxymoron part.

1. If the keyboard in front of me is real, then 'something' exists. That would mean something must exist. It isn't possible for something to be nothing at the same time so not everything can be nothingness.

2. If the keyboard in front of me is not real then I have a false belief about a keyboard. (If the belief in a keyboard is not false see point (1)

3. It might be argued that the belief about the keyboard cannot be false because it would have to be false ABOUT something and, since there is only nothing, there is nothing to be false about. Nevertheless it still remains that I am having an appearance of a keyboard and an appearance is surely something. If appearances do not count as something then we seem to have stumbled on a kind of Idealism (the epistemological kind - google 'George Berkeley') - so what?

This whole idea seems either nonsensical or trivial to me.

Is that better?

Nothingness

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