not that it matters

ILoveYeshua said:

but inevitably, once this conversation/thread plays out, you'll all just go back to your lives like i dont even exist. a project completed or not. a soul saved or not. and if that doesnt describe you then i encourage you to show forth fruits of love and continue to at least make believe i exist for a few days longer than you might normally dismiss a stranger.

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ILoveYeshua said:

how can you pray for something so hard, and not get it..................

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ILoveYeshua said:

^^^^ Yes no or wait?

or I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. , It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. , O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt.

then yes

If everyone who asks in faith receives, where does this 'no' come from

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Hus1415 said:

I know I'm the wrong kind of Lutheran to post here, but...

I don't want to sound condesending because I know what that feels like...You described yourself as overweight...depressed and several other things...I weigh 317 pounds...depression?...cronic clinical depression and general anxiety disorder...I have had so many women tell me that they only loved me as a "freind" or my personal favorite "brother" that I should be in the record book...with that said I know how you feel...you have to realize like I have to realize every day that we are loved...you have parents?...they love you...friends?...they love you...heck...I love you AND I HAVE NEVER MET YOU...but...i'm fat...I look funny...I don't wear the right clothes...glasses...shoes...so what...I had (read have) those issues, too...I'll tell you what my Pastor told me...GOD either loves you or HE doesn't...what does the bible say?...it says that HE love you...does it matter if you beleive HE loves you?...not in the slightest...HE's going to love you weither you believe it or not...

if you don't think I know what you mean click on my picture link above...if you think you can't have a beautiful wife look at the girl in the picture next to me...we'll be married 10 years in december...if you think that you can't have a happy life look at the little boy in the picture...if I can have all of that than so can you my friend...

GOD loves you...and so do I...

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LilLamb219 said:

Has anyone seen ILoveYeshua lately?

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ILoveYeshua said:

Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

It is interesting to me that the flow from ask->receive into THEREFORE (love one another). There is another part like this:

Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


See the transition again from ask->receive (in v12,13) into the v15 therefore if you love me, obey me.


and one other time (there are likely more)

Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
...
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

in v7: (ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. ) transitioning into v14 (Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. ) and then 17: the ultimate law: (These things I command you, that ye love one another. )


So it would stand to reason that my failure to obey the Lord and hearken unto his voice as zealously or diligently as I ought, has perhaps also led to my possibly not receiving the things I'm asking for. But if I had greater faith in Jesus, I would love him more, and thereby obey his commandments and it would come as no surprise to me that whatsoever I asked for I received.

Three transitions from ask->receive into "obey me". And it only makes sense that would be the case. Consider the first words out of Christ's mouth when he emerges from the desert temptations after his baptism.

Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Mat 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
Mat 4:13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zebulun and Naphtali:
Mat 4:14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying,
Mat 4:15 The land of Zebulun, and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
Mat 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


THE very first word was Repent. word2: the reason (for) is: The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Knockin on the door. You may as well consider it here already, for its inevitability is inescapable.

So it would stand to reason that my repentance has not been complete enough, and I need to reevaluate my actions in light of Christ's words. Things like, "sell all you have and give to the poor". Something I have not done, but which his disciples did do when they were following him upon the earth, and in the early church, and even throughout the AD timeframe in his real church.

Corneilius was fasting and praying for 3 days before Peter came unto him. Many are called but few are chosen. What's that mean to you?

Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.


So obviously I must repent more stringently and believe more completely than I even have up til now, or else my soul could be in danger. I believe in him. And he strengthens me. Without him I never would be able to do anything. And I know he has saved me, "it is finished" he said. But still I long to know him better and to understand what it means to be known by him.

We should all be like the people who threw themselves down at Jesus' feet and cried tears to wash his feet and dry them with our hair. We should love him that much, for we see that he accepted that praise and even praised her for her faith. For her faith. Because she saw that the Perfect Son was there in front of her - her only chance to ever escape hell and death. And she believed in him, and cast down her pride, and worshipped him. I want to be like them, because I know where they're going when they die. So I believe in him too, and I want to believe that much. And I know its probly gonna get me nailed up too, in one way or another, and I take up that cross. But I fear that I have not denied myself first, for the order of it was "deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me". Well if you skip step 1 (repent was the first word out of his mouth after the temptations), or skip step 1 in this (deny yourself) how can you expect to make it to step 2 properly?

I know I've been sinful, I openly admit it. I'm a man, I've done bad things, and God understands, but he still doesn't like it when his kids do bad things, so sometimes he rebukes his kids. Whom he loves, he also rebukes. And perhaps I am simply being rebuked, and frankly it could be far worse. So I should be less like the Israelites who were complaining in the desert even though God was leading them with a pillar of fire by night, and instead simply be thankful, pray more, worry less, and chill out.

Everyone should probably chill out.

=) and repent

Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Luke 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Luke 3:10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? Luke 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
- John the Baptist


So then its clear. My lack of charity and generosity has itself led to the unfulfillment of my requests. Because if I believed more, I would have more charity. So then what I have to do is clear also. I must give. all.

Even as Christ gave all for me and my brothers and sisters.

Perhaps even one of you will be motivated to give. all.

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ByzantineDixie said:

ILY, your assessment that you are not charitable enough to have God answer your prayers is misguided. Certainly if you think you need to improve in this area, then you probably do but do not expect that in doing so God will grant you everything you want. As was pointed out earlier...some of the things we want and ask for in this world would be to our distruction if we actually got them. But our Lord, Who loves mankind, in His mercy he protects us from ourselves.

There is a sermon I have sent to people who are trying to understand God's answer to their prayers when things don't work out the way they want. It is written by a Lutheran pastor and is theologically sound. I hope this helps you.

St. John 16.23-30
In the Name of the Father and of the @ Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Dearly Beloved:
Today’s Gospel tends to disturb people like us. For we are impatient. We are used to getting or buying or working toward what we want. And we are over sensitive. We are easily and quickly offended when we ask a question, but get no answer. And we are cynical. We not only say, but deep down we believe that it’s easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. But most of all, we are slow to believe. We are so sure that others won’t come through that we’re already making a “Plan B” even before we ask someone a favor.
And then we hear about St. Paul, and that only confirms us in our impatience, and cynicism, and little faith. You know the story. It’s seared in your memory, and haunts you every time you pray. St. Paul says, “A thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan. Three times I begged the Lord that He might take it away from me.” We all know St. Paul’s frustration, because we’ve all lived it. And then here comes Jesus in today’s Gospel saying, “Most assuredly, I say to you: Whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.”
People like us, we hardly believe what Jesus says. And we certainly don’t think He means what He says when He says, “Ask anything.” For we’ve tried that, and it didn’t work. So He must mean something else.
But people like us are also prone to hear what we want to hear, and to make the Bible say what it never says. That’s why we pray only as an exercise in meditation, or as a rote habit, or as a good luck charm—or not at all. For instead of believing Jesus when He says, “Ask anything,,” we believe that God helps those who help themselves—which, of course, God never says and which you’ll find nowhere in your Bible. What your Bible does say is this: “LORD, it is nothing for You to help those who have no power; help us, O LORD our God, for we rest on You, and in Your name we carry on” (2 Chrn 14.11).
So, then, why is St. Paul not helped? For certainly he prayed in Jesus’ name. And certainly he asked anything—just like Jesus said.
Oh how miserable we are, that we refuse to see Our Lord’s help when He gives it; and that we say He didn’t help us when He really did. And because of this, we give up on the Lord, and accuse Him of horrible things, and think He is no different than us—making promises He can’t keep. It’s a wonder—it’s a testament to His mercy and unfailing love—that He still puts up with us, and allows us to stand in His house, and hears any prayer we pray, and does not burn our tongues with His holy, pure and righteous flesh and blood!
For St. Paul is helped. He himself says so. For St. Paul says that his thorn in the flesh is not taken away so that he might keep his eyes, his heart, his mind and his soul fixed on Our Lord and His mercy. For if his ailment or besetting temptation goes away, then Paul says, “I will be exalted above measure.” In other words, “I will believe in myself, and the power of my prayers, and the strength of my faith.” And the worst thing a man can do is believe in himself. For then he is believing less—or not at all—in the Father who created Him to be in communion with Him through the Son in the Holy Spirit.
So here, then, is the answer St. Paul gets. “You’ve asked anything in My name, just as I said. And the most you can ask for is the salvation of your soul. That’s exactly what I want for you, and why I urge, command, insist, invite and tell you to pray to Me and ask Me anything. For it’s not about health, wealth and success. It’s not about gaining the world while losing your soul. It’s about following Me—in life and death. It’s about traveling My route—of baptism, temptation, suffering, death and then resurrection and a joyful reunion in heaven. And it’s about loving Me with all that you have, and loving Me by living not for yourself but for everyone else. For that’s the way into the Kingdom of heaven—denying yourself, and following Me. And if it takes weakness, tears, sickness, death, heartache, relentless temptations, or even Satan himself to keep your eyes fixed on the goal, then that’s what I’ll use. All you need to believe is that My grace is sufficient for you; and that when you are weak, then I am strong in you. For My strength is made perfect in weakness.”
And what is St. Paul’s response? How does he answer the answer to his prayer? “From now on, I most gladly boast in my infirmities, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. In fact, I now take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”
That’s not just a lesson we need to learn. That’s the way of life we need to imitate, and the path we need to walk. For the goal is the kingdom of heaven. And we get there not by living as we please, or by feeding our appetites, or by gratifying our desires, or by thinking of ourselves first. We get there by the Lord’s grace and mercy. By His kindness which is works best when we are down. And by His love which permeates our being when we have stopped whining about what we don’t have, and start hungering for what He is giving us.
And that’s what we’re asked by Jesus to pray for. Not things that make life easier. But His mercy, which increases our peace even when we’re in pain; and for His grace, which increases our joy even when we’re sad; and for His compassion, which gives us true happiness and calm even when we’re depressed or stressed.
So the “anything” in Our Lord’s “Ask anything” is not “anything you like” or “anything you want.” The “anything” we’re to ask for is anything and everything that helps us attain the Lord’s kingdom; and anything and everything that grows and matures and perfects our faith and life in God.
So we pray for those things which aid our salvation, which are indeed useful for our life in God, and which restore, rebuild, recover, re-energize, re-invigorate and retain our communion in God.
And ultimately, the “anything” that we ask for is not a thing, but a person. For in the end, all our prayers become a prayer for the Holy Spirit. For it is in Him that our life in God begins; it is through Him that our selfish desires our suppressed; it is in Him that our pride and our passions are swept away; it is by Him that our hearts are cleansed and purified; it is in Him that our communion in God grows and is made whole; it is through Him that we receive every grace and spiritual blessing; and it is in Him and through Him and with Him that we attain our goal—the kingdom of heaven.
So people like us—we need to not be distracted or dissuaded. People like us—we need to pray, and to ask for all the anythings—and for the Anyone—so that our joy may be true and righteous and full.
In the Name of the Father and of the @ Son and of the Holy Spirit.
1 May 2005
Rev. Fr. John W. Fenton

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