Non-Trinitarianism is unscriptural

Grafted In · Nov 26, 2015

I still can't help but believe the Truth is within Scripture that speaks of baptism. Last night I came across this site. I know nothing about this group but what is written I think is worth considering. I know the NT wasn't written in Hebrew, but I see in this page something that grabs my attention.

http://www.eliyah.com/baptism.html

Also, Philippians 2:5-11 leads me to believe that The Son laid down His position within the Trinity only while He spent time in the human person He took on, explaining, maybe, why He said The Father is greater. Perhaps He existed just as human but with The Holy Spirit . After His job was finished and He returned to The Father He once again became equal within the trinity,
Folks, i'm just suggesting some of the ideas running around in my head here. I'm not claiming to know anything and I certainly am way out on a limb trying to help the rest of you reach a conclusion that makes sense to everyone. I have not heard specifically from God on these things but they are thoughts that have rolled around in my head for some time now.

Also, and I'm not even sure this is on topic, but when Mary conceived in her womb I suspect that the human Jesus was created anew, that is to say, Mary did not provide the egg. Perhaps some may consider this heresy, but Scripture tells us that she conceived in the womb. We are not conceived in the womb but rather in the fallopian tubes. So, I can't help but suspect that Jesus was a brand new creation, a new fertilized egg placed within Mary, attached to the wall if her womb having not been conceived with her egg and The Holy Ghost providing the sperm. The new Adam.
I know these points don't seem to be relevant to one another, but they are in my mind.
I can handle being mocked for this post. I'm just typing things going through my mind, warts and all, as I struggle to understand the topic.

I'm almost reluctant to press "reply", but....

Butch5 · Nov 26, 2015

Paul1963 said:
All we need do is look in Genesis chapter1 2ndvrs the spirt of God also in Genesis 1 vrs26 God says Let us make man. I state this that in the first book and first chapter of the Bible it shows the first glimpse of the trinity! This theam is then shown through the the rest of the Bible. Remember the Bible is the infallible written word of God.

I'm not sure how this shows the Trinity.

cgaviria · Nov 26, 2015

Butch5 said:
I read your other post and I think you had a few unwarranted assumptions in it. I disagree with what you've said here in regard to Jesus being a lesser. He is equal to the Father in substance or essence. There was no misses to contribute any DNA for lack of a better term, to the Son. He is the exact same substance as the Father. It's just as when human father begets a son via the mother. The son is no less and no more human than that father, they are equally human. It is in order and personal attributes that they differ. The Father has authority over the Son, thus He is greater than the Son. There are also other attributes in which they differ. The Father alone has immortality, the Father alone is unbgotten. The Son is begotten. Jesus said He didn't know the hour of His return but only the Father knew. So, there are aspect where they differ, however, in substance they are equal.

If they were equal then why does Jesus say "The Father is greater than I"? Jesus himself is saying he is LESSER. HE SAID IT HIMSELF. WANT ME TO REPEAT IT? HE SAID IT HIMSELF. They are equal because just as the Father does, so does the Son do in likewise manner. And they are also ONE. Did you know that those that are IN CHRIST, are also ONE WITH HIM, and THUS also ONE WITH THE FATHER. Is it spirtual. It doesn't mean that they are LITERALLY THE SAME. Take for example, man and woman, and the two shall be ONE FLESH. It doesn't mean that they are LITERALLY the same. It means that they are ONE spiritually/figuratively.

Wgw · Nov 26, 2015

Imagican said:
Just when I think that there is NO hope of mutual agreement, you come THAT close to convincing me that we have MORE to agree upon than disagree.

For you admit that Jesus IS the Son of God in His very ESSENCE. And this would seem to be CONTRARY to the "TRINITY" most here attempt to discuss. For surely the essence of the Son is not the SAME as the Father. Surely the Son and the Father are NOT the same in any manner other than intent.

Blessings,

MEC

On the contrary, Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the divine essence, in which the three prosopa have been revealed to be united according to "I and my father are one."

He is thus the Son of God by nature and according to the divine essence, as opposed to humans, who cannot be be sons of God according to nature, essence or even hypostatic union. We can be sons of God according to adoption or energy.

Butch5 · Nov 26, 2015

cgaviria said:
These things are scriptural as well. Time is a creation of God and he has made creation in subjection to it, notice this,

And God said, Let there be luminaries in the firmament of the heaven for giving light upon the earth, to part between the day and between the night! And let them be for signs, and for times, and for days, and for years! (Genesis 1:14 [ABP])

These are things pertaining to time and he has given us things in the heaven to help us measure the passing of time. He has also made us to be able to perceive the passing of time. He could've easily made us to see everything happen at once, but he did not choose things to be this way.

As for the nothingness of space, this is also scriptural. I gave you the reference in Job. Jesus Christ also alludes to being cast into "outer darkness", and also "perish". What do you think these things mean? It means to be pushed out into non-existence. What do you think death is? To ultimately die is to cease to exist.

I agree that time is created. However, what is beyond our sight is speculation. Yes, Job talks of nothingness, however, he's speaking from a visual perspective. He didn't have a telescope to look light years away. He talks about things from his perspective. He also uses figurative language at times. Remember, we bring presuppositions to the text. What we already believe affect how we understand.

Wgw · Nov 26, 2015

Grafted In said:
I still can't help but believe the Truth is within Scripture that speaks of baptism. Last night I came across this site. I know nothing about this group but what is written I think is worth considering. I know the NT wasn't written in Hebrew, but I see in this page something that grabs my attention.

http://www.eliyah.com/baptism.html

Also, Philippians 2:5-11 leads me to believe that The Son laid down His position within the Trinity only while He spent time in the human person He took on, explaining, maybe, why He said The Father is greater. Perhaps He existed just as human but with The Holy Spirit . After His job was finished and He returned to The Father He once again became equal within the trinity,
Folks, i'm just suggesting some of the ideas running around in my head here. I'm not claiming to know anything and I certainly am way out on a limb trying to help the rest of you reach a conclusion that makes sense to everyone. I have not heard specifically from God on these things but they are thoughts that have rolled around in my head for some time now.

Also, and I'm not even sure this is on topic, but when Mary conceived in her womb I suspect that the human Jesus was created anew, that is to say, Mary did not provide the egg. Perhaps some may consider this heresy, but Scripture tells us that she conceived in the womb. We are not conceived in the womb but rather in the fallopian tubes. So, I can't help but suspect that Jesus was a brand new creation, a new fertilized egg placed within Mary, attached to the wall if her womb having not been conceived with her egg and The Holy Ghost providing the sperm. The new Adam.
I know these points don't seem to be relevant to one another, but they are in my mind.
I can handle being mocked for this post. I'm just typing things going through my mind, warts and all, as I struggle to understand the topic.

I'm almost reluctant to press "reply", but....

I think there is an error in your post in that classically "womb" would encompass the fallopian tubes in common parlance (even in contemporary common parlance).

What is more, if the humanity of our Lord were generated or rather created in the manner in which you suggest, it would be difficult if not impossible to say that He is consubstantial with us, something proven by His own name "Immanuel."

cgaviria · Nov 26, 2015

Butch5 said:
I agree that time is created. However, what is beyond our sight is speculation. Yes, Job talks of nothingness, however, he's speaking from a visual perspective. He didn't have a telescope to look light years away. He talks about things from his perspective. He also uses figurative language at times. Remember, we bring presuppositions to the text. What we already believe affect how we understand.

If the scripture says the earth is suspended on nothing then rest assured I will believe it. So we conclude that there is nothingness that surrounds the earth from this scripture. And then we have the Genesis account explaining what was created in this nothingness. The nothingness and non-existence around what was created is a teaching of scripture. The very creation of everything has to do with bringing FORTH into existence things that are clearly suspended in this VOID OF NOTHINGNESS.

Butch5 · Nov 26, 2015

cgaviria said:
If they were equal then why does Jesus say "The Father is greater than I"? Jesus himself is saying he is LESSER. HE SAID IT HIMSELF. WANT ME TO REPEAT IT? HE SAID IT HIMSELF. They are equal because just as the Father does, so does the Son do in likewise manner. And they are also ONE. Did you know that those that are IN CHRIST, are also ONE WITH HIM, and THUS also ONE WITH THE FATHER. Is it spirtual. It doesn't mean that they are LITERALLY THE SAME. Take for example, man and woman, and the two shall be ONE FLESH. It doesn't mean that they are LITERALLY the same. It means that they are ONE spiritually/figuratively.

I explained it. Read the passage in it's context. He's acknowledging the Father's authority. The being one is in reference to unity. the husband and wife becoming on flesh if figurative for then being unified. So also, believers are to be unified with God, Christ and other believer. However, looking at Christianity that doesn't seem to be happening.

Imagican · Nov 26, 2015

Wgw said:
On the contrary, Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the divine essence, in which the three prosopa have been revealed to be united according to "I and my father are one."

He is thus the Son of God by nature and according to the divine essence, as opposed to humans, who cannot be be sons of God according to nature, essence or even hypostatic union. We can be sons of God according to adoption or energy.

So, here we go again. What you offer would refute what Christ Himself offers in the Book 'trinitarians' like to quote the most:

John 17:

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Hmm..............If you doubt the meaning of these words, I can offer more from the same book that offer the SAME meaning. Words that plainly STATE that Christ's prayer, wish, desire is for US to be one with God as God and Christ are ONE with each other. That would certainly include us being ONE with Christ as well.

Blessings,

MEC

cgaviria · Nov 26, 2015

Butch5 said:
I explained it. Read the passage in it's context. He's acknowledging the Father's authority. The being one is in reference to unity. the husband and wife becoming on flesh if figurative for then being unified. So also, believers are to be unified with God, Christ and other believer. However, looking at Christianity that doesn't seem to be happening.

He's not just affirming the Father's authority, because from other scriptures, such as being himself a SON that would logically proceed forth after a father, so in fact, in affirming that the father is greater, he is affirming BOTH his authority AND that the Father came first and THEN the SON.

Butch5 · Nov 26, 2015

Butch5 said:
I explained it. Read the passage in it's context. He's acknowledging the Father's authority. The being one is in reference to unity. the husband and wife becoming on flesh if figurative for then being unified. So also, believers are to be unified with God, Christ and other believer. However, looking at Christianity that doesn't seem to be happening.

That may be, but you're taking that beyond the Scriptures.

Imagican said:
Do you profess to believe in and follow the doctrine of 'trinity'?

Blessings,

MEC

Not as espoused by most Christians. I hold the Nicene Creed definition.

civilwarbuff · Nov 26, 2015

cgaviria said:
Didn't it occur to anyone in this discussion that if there are evident forgies trying to push the "trinity" onto the bible, as is clear in this verse (1 John 5:7) and in Matthew that it is perhaps also a false teaching? If it were a clear teaching of scripture, not only would every manuscript that has been uncovered have the trinity reference, but every quote in reference to doing things "in the name of Jesus Christ" would also have them the trinity instead of just the name of Jesus Christ, since obviously the trinity is SUCHHHHHHHHHH an important thing..... (sarcasm). don't you think the original writers would've made it a point to ALWAYS make mention of the trinity as well since it is soooooooo important? The trinity teaching is nonsensical and is a doctrine of man, the catholic church. Whoever believes in the trinity is still allied with the catholic church.

Faith Groups That Reject the Trinity
The following faith groups and religions are among those that reject the doctrine of the Trinity. The list is not exhaustive but encompasses several of the major groups and religious movements. Included is a brief explanation of each group's beliefs about the nature of God, revealing a deviation from the doctrine of the Trinity.

For comparison purposes, the biblical Trinity doctrine is defined as follows: "There is only one God, made up of three distinct Persons who exist in co-equal, co-eternal communion as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Mormonism - Latter-day Saints
Founded By: Joseph Smith, Jr., 1830.
Mormons believe that God has a physical, flesh and bones, eternal, perfect body. Men have the potential to become gods as well. Jesus is God's literal son, a separate being from God the Father and the "elder brother" of men. The Holy Spirit is also a separate being from God the Father and God the Son. The Holy Spirit is regarded as an impersonal power or spirit being. These three separate beings are "one" only in their purpose, and they make up the Godhead. More »

Jehovah's Witnesses
Founded By: Charles Taze Russell, 1879. Succeeded by Joseph F. Rutherford, 1917.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God is one person, Jehovah. Jesus was Jehovah's first creation. Jesus is not God, nor part of the Godhead. He is higher than the angels, but inferior to God. Jehovah used Jesus to create the rest of the universe. Before Jesus came to earth he was known as the archangel Michael. The Holy Spirit is an impersonal force from Jehovah, but not God. More »

Christian Science
Founded By: Mary Baker Eddy, 1879.
Christian Scientists believe the trinity is life, truth and love. As an impersonal principle, God is the only thing that truly exists. Everything else (matter) is an illusion. Jesus, though not God, is the Son of God. He was the promised Messiah but was not a deity. The Holy Spirit is divine science in the teachings of Christian Science. More »

Armstrongism
(Philadelphia Church of God, Global Church of God, United Church of God)
Founded By: Herbert W. Armstrong, 1934.
Traditional Armstrongism denies a Trinity, defining God as "a family of individuals." Original teachings say Jesus did not have a physical resurrection and the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force. More »

Christadelphians
Founded By: Dr. John Thomas, 1864.
Christadelphians believe God is one indivisible unity, not three distinct persons existing in one God. They deny the divinity of Jesus, believing he is fully human and separate from God. They do not believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity, but simply a force—the "unseen power" from God. More »

Oneness Pentecostals
Founded By: Frank Ewart, 1913.
Oneness Pentecostals believe that there is one God and God is one. Throughout time God manifested himself in three ways or "forms" (not persons), as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Oneness Pentecostals take issue with the Trinity doctrine chiefly for its use of the term "person." They believe God cannot be three distinct persons, but only one being who has revealed himself in three different modes. It is important to note that Oneness Pentecostals do affirm the deity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. More »

Unification Church
Founded By: Sun Myung Moon, 1954.
Unification adherents believe that God is positive and negative, male and female. The universe is God's body, made by him. Jesus was not God, but a man. He did not experience a physical resurrection. In fact, his mission on earth failed and will be fulfilled through Sun Myung Moon, who is greater than Jesus. The Holy Spirit is feminine in nature. She collaborates with Jesus in the spirit realm to draw people to Sun Myung Moon. More »

Unity School of Christianity
Founded By: Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, 1889.
Similar to Christian Science, Unity adherents believe God is an unseen, impersonal principle, not a person. God is a force within everyone and everything. Jesus was only a man, not the Christ. He simply realized his spiritual identity as the Christ by practicing his potential for perfection. This is something all men can achieve. Jesus did not resurrect from the dead, but rather, he reincarnated. The Holy Spirit is the active expression of God's law. Only the spirit part of us is real, matter is not real. More »

Scientology - Dianetics
Founded By: L. Ron Hubbard, 1954.
Scientology defines God as Dynamic Infinity. Jesus is not God, Savior or Creator, nor does he have control of supernatural powers. He is usually overlooked in Dianetics. The Holy Spirit is absent from this belief system as well. Men are "thetan" - immortal, spiritual beings with limitless capabilities and powers, though often they are unaware of this potential. Scientology teaches men how to achieve "higher states of awareness and ability" through practicing Dianetics. More »

Are you a member of one of these groups? Or are you a member of another faith group that denies the Trinity which is not listed here? If so, could you please give the group name? Are you a member of a Trinity believing faith group and happen to be a dissenter to that position? If so, again could please name the group? Not trying to pry but it does help one in replies if I have an idea of where one is coming from. And I apologize if you have already answered this question, just point me to the post #.

Wgw · Nov 26, 2015

civilwarbuff said:
Faith Groups That Reject the Trinity
The following faith groups and religions are among those that reject the doctrine of the Trinity. The list is not exhaustive but encompasses several of the major groups and religious movements. Included is a brief explanation of each group's beliefs about the nature of God, revealing a deviation from the doctrine of the Trinity.

For comparison purposes, the biblical Trinity doctrine is defined as follows: "There is only one God, made up of three distinct Persons who exist in co-equal, co-eternal communion as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Mormonism - Latter-day Saints
Founded By: Joseph Smith, Jr., 1830.
Mormons believe that God has a physical, flesh and bones, eternal, perfect body. Men have the potential to become gods as well. Jesus is God's literal son, a separate being from God the Father and the "elder brother" of men. The Holy Spirit is also a separate being from God the Father and God the Son. The Holy Spirit is regarded as an impersonal power or spirit being. These three separate beings are "one" only in their purpose, and they make up the Godhead. More »

Jehovah's Witnesses
Founded By: Charles Taze Russell, 1879. Succeeded by Joseph F. Rutherford, 1917.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God is one person, Jehovah. Jesus was Jehovah's first creation. Jesus is not God, nor part of the Godhead. He is higher than the angels, but inferior to God. Jehovah used Jesus to create the rest of the universe. Before Jesus came to earth he was known as the archangel Michael. The Holy Spirit is an impersonal force from Jehovah, but not God. More »

Christian Science
Founded By: Mary Baker Eddy, 1879.
Christian Scientists believe the trinity is life, truth and love. As an impersonal principle, God is the only thing that truly exists. Everything else (matter) is an illusion. Jesus, though not God, is the Son of God. He was the promised Messiah but was not a deity. The Holy Spirit is divine science in the teachings of Christian Science. More »

Armstrongism
(Philadelphia Church of God, Global Church of God, United Church of God)
Founded By: Herbert W. Armstrong, 1934.
Traditional Armstrongism denies a Trinity, defining God as "a family of individuals." Original teachings say Jesus did not have a physical resurrection and the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force. More »

Christadelphians
Founded By: Dr. John Thomas, 1864.
Christadelphians believe God is one indivisible unity, not three distinct persons existing in one God. They deny the divinity of Jesus, believing he is fully human and separate from God. They do not believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity, but simply a force—the "unseen power" from God. More »

Oneness Pentecostals
Founded By: Frank Ewart, 1913.
Oneness Pentecostals believe that there is one God and God is one. Throughout time God manifested himself in three ways or "forms" (not persons), as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Oneness Pentecostals take issue with the Trinity doctrine chiefly for its use of the term "person." They believe God cannot be three distinct persons, but only one being who has revealed himself in three different modes. It is important to note that Oneness Pentecostals do affirm the deity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. More »

Unification Church
Founded By: Sun Myung Moon, 1954.
Unification adherents believe that God is positive and negative, male and female. The universe is God's body, made by him. Jesus was not God, but a man. He did not experience a physical resurrection. In fact, his mission on earth failed and will be fulfilled through Sun Myung Moon, who is greater than Jesus. The Holy Spirit is feminine in nature. She collaborates with Jesus in the spirit realm to draw people to Sun Myung Moon. More »

Unity School of Christianity
Founded By: Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, 1889.
Similar to Christian Science, Unity adherents believe God is an unseen, impersonal principle, not a person. God is a force within everyone and everything. Jesus was only a man, not the Christ. He simply realized his spiritual identity as the Christ by practicing his potential for perfection. This is something all men can achieve. Jesus did not resurrect from the dead, but rather, he reincarnated. The Holy Spirit is the active expression of God's law. Only the spirit part of us is real, matter is not real. More »

Scientology - Dianetics
Founded By: L. Ron Hubbard, 1954.
Scientology defines God as Dynamic Infinity. Jesus is not God, Savior or Creator, nor does he have control of supernatural powers. He is usually overlooked in Dianetics. The Holy Spirit is absent from this belief system as well. Men are "thetan" - immortal, spiritual beings with limitless capabilities and powers, though often they are unaware of this potential. Scientology teaches men how to achieve "higher states of awareness and ability" through practicing Dianetics. More »

Are you a member of one of these groups? Or are you a member of another faith group that denies the Trinity which is not listed here? If so, could you please give the group name? Are you a member of a Trinity believing faith group and happen to be a dissenter to that position? If so, again could please name the group? Not trying to pry but it does help one in replies if I have an idea of where one is coming from. And I apologize if you have already answered this question, just point me to the post #.

You omitted a large number of other groups, for example, the American, British, Hungarian and Transylvanian Unitarians.

Wgw · Nov 26, 2015

Imagican said:
So, here we go again. What you offer would refute what Christ Himself offers in the Book 'trinitarians' like to quote the most:

John 17:

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Hmm..............If you doubt the meaning of these words, I can offer more from the same book that offer the SAME meaning. Words that plainly STATE that Christ's prayer, wish, desire is for US to be one with God as God and Christ are ONE with each other. That would certainly include us being ONE with Christ as well.

Blessings,

MEC

According to energy, but not essence, nature or ontology.

Butch5 · Nov 26, 2015

cgaviria said:
He's not just affirming the Father's authority, because from other scriptures, such as being himself a SON that would logically proceed forth after a father, so in fact, in affirming that the father is greater, he is affirming BOTH his authority AND that the Father came first and THEN the SON.

Yes, however, that doesn't mean they aren't equal in substance.

civilwarbuff · Nov 26, 2015

Butch5 said:
I understand the Trinity doctrine as espoused by the early Christians and I agree there is a time when Jesus began to exist as a separate being from the Father. The Early Christians said that He was, 'begotten before all ages.' To be gotten is to be born or to come into existence. However, we have to remember that the Father is eternal. Therefore He has existed for eternity. The Son came out of the Father, therefore whatever the Son is He is of the same substance or essence as the Father and that substance has existed for eternity. Thus the Son began to Exist as a separate being yet is eternal in substance.

Read post 82 & 83 for the correct definition of begotten from the Greek word monogenes....

cgaviria · Nov 26, 2015

civilwarbuff said:
Faith Groups That Reject the Trinity
The following faith groups and religions are among those that reject the doctrine of the Trinity. The list is not exhaustive but encompasses several of the major groups and religious movements. Included is a brief explanation of each group's beliefs about the nature of God, revealing a deviation from the doctrine of the Trinity.

For comparison purposes, the biblical Trinity doctrine is defined as follows: "There is only one God, made up of three distinct Persons who exist in co-equal, co-eternal communion as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Mormonism - Latter-day Saints
Founded By: Joseph Smith, Jr., 1830.
Mormons believe that God has a physical, flesh and bones, eternal, perfect body. Men have the potential to become gods as well. Jesus is God's literal son, a separate being from God the Father and the "elder brother" of men. The Holy Spirit is also a separate being from God the Father and God the Son. The Holy Spirit is regarded as an impersonal power or spirit being. These three separate beings are "one" only in their purpose, and they make up the Godhead. More »

Jehovah's Witnesses
Founded By: Charles Taze Russell, 1879. Succeeded by Joseph F. Rutherford, 1917.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God is one person, Jehovah. Jesus was Jehovah's first creation. Jesus is not God, nor part of the Godhead. He is higher than the angels, but inferior to God. Jehovah used Jesus to create the rest of the universe. Before Jesus came to earth he was known as the archangel Michael. The Holy Spirit is an impersonal force from Jehovah, but not God. More »

Christian Science
Founded By: Mary Baker Eddy, 1879.
Christian Scientists believe the trinity is life, truth and love. As an impersonal principle, God is the only thing that truly exists. Everything else (matter) is an illusion. Jesus, though not God, is the Son of God. He was the promised Messiah but was not a deity. The Holy Spirit is divine science in the teachings of Christian Science. More »

Armstrongism
(Philadelphia Church of God, Global Church of God, United Church of God)
Founded By: Herbert W. Armstrong, 1934.
Traditional Armstrongism denies a Trinity, defining God as "a family of individuals." Original teachings say Jesus did not have a physical resurrection and the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force. More »

Christadelphians
Founded By: Dr. John Thomas, 1864.
Christadelphians believe God is one indivisible unity, not three distinct persons existing in one God. They deny the divinity of Jesus, believing he is fully human and separate from God. They do not believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity, but simply a force—the "unseen power" from God. More »

Oneness Pentecostals
Founded By: Frank Ewart, 1913.
Oneness Pentecostals believe that there is one God and God is one. Throughout time God manifested himself in three ways or "forms" (not persons), as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Oneness Pentecostals take issue with the Trinity doctrine chiefly for its use of the term "person." They believe God cannot be three distinct persons, but only one being who has revealed himself in three different modes. It is important to note that Oneness Pentecostals do affirm the deity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. More »

Unification Church
Founded By: Sun Myung Moon, 1954.
Unification adherents believe that God is positive and negative, male and female. The universe is God's body, made by him. Jesus was not God, but a man. He did not experience a physical resurrection. In fact, his mission on earth failed and will be fulfilled through Sun Myung Moon, who is greater than Jesus. The Holy Spirit is feminine in nature. She collaborates with Jesus in the spirit realm to draw people to Sun Myung Moon. More »

Unity School of Christianity
Founded By: Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, 1889.
Similar to Christian Science, Unity adherents believe God is an unseen, impersonal principle, not a person. God is a force within everyone and everything. Jesus was only a man, not the Christ. He simply realized his spiritual identity as the Christ by practicing his potential for perfection. This is something all men can achieve. Jesus did not resurrect from the dead, but rather, he reincarnated. The Holy Spirit is the active expression of God's law. Only the spirit part of us is real, matter is not real. More »

Scientology - Dianetics
Founded By: L. Ron Hubbard, 1954.
Scientology defines God as Dynamic Infinity. Jesus is not God, Savior or Creator, nor does he have control of supernatural powers. He is usually overlooked in Dianetics. The Holy Spirit is absent from this belief system as well. Men are "thetan" - immortal, spiritual beings with limitless capabilities and powers, though often they are unaware of this potential. Scientology teaches men how to achieve "higher states of awareness and ability" through practicing Dianetics. More »

Are you a member of one of these groups? Or are you a member of another faith group that denies the Trinity which is not listed here? If so, could you please give the group name? Are you a member of a Trinity believing faith group and happen to be a dissenter to that position? If so, again could please name the group? Not trying to pry but it does help one in replies if I have an idea of where one is coming from. And I apologize if you have already answered this question, just point me to the post #.

I'm not affiliated with any church at the moment and neither do I claim to YET have the Holy Spirit, I wouldn't be on this forum if I had it. I am merely just a student of scripture, yet well studied. I am here to either prove wrong what I believe, or strengthen it. I am also here to learn new things about scripture, if possible, as there are things that are still obscure to me about it, although I find myself more arguing against false teachings with things I already know. And I am also here to hopefully find like-minded believers who want to share these same things I believe.

cgaviria · Nov 26, 2015

Butch5 said:
Yes, however, that doesn't mean they aren't equal in substance.

Define "substance".

Wgw · Nov 26, 2015

cgaviria said:
I'm not affiliated with any church at the moment and neither do I claim to YET have the Holy Spirit, I wouldn't be on this forum if I had it. I am merely just a student of scripture, yet well studied. I am here to either prove wrong what I believe, or strengthen it. I am also here to learn new things about scripture, if possible, as there are things that are still obscure to me about it, although I find myself more arguing against false teachings with things I already know. And I am also here to hopefully find like-minded believers who want to share these same things I believe.

Yet you presume to lecture those of us who have received the seal of the Holy Spirit on how our various beliefs are wrong, et cetera!

I propose to you that if you were to unite yourself with the Body of Christ as described in the New Testament, and thus receive the Spirit, you would no longer find cause to quibble with us over points of scripture that are uncontroversial among Christians.

civilwarbuff · Nov 26, 2015

Wgw said:
You omitted a large number of other groups, for example, the American, British, Hungarian and Transylvanian Unitarians.

Thanks....figured it was incomplete....pretty short list.

Non-Trinitarianism is unscriptural

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