Non-mention in Scripture

Carl Emerson · Jul 13, 2019

com7fy8 said:
How about if I am out in the real world and I don't have a prophet present to tell me what to do about a non-mentioned item?

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

In God's peace ruling me, we have His personal guiding of us according to all He knows is true and all He knows He is committed to doing.

"and you will find rest for your souls" > in Matthew 11:28-30 > so, in the case of if I am called to be a pastor or official other ministerial person > I can test if I am called, by how Jesus develops and matures and guides me in rest for my soul.

Plus, it can be good to have someone in the prophetic confirm what Jesus is proving within me. I would not go only by a prophesied say-so, but also test for if and how Jesus guides me in rest for our souls. And see how Jesus actually develops me, do not go only by say-so and take it into my own hands!!!!

So we need to test each prophecy to see if and how God actually has us doing it, including with His timing and His coordinating us with each other.

Yes this is how it should happen on an individual level...

I guess I was thinking more about the church dealing with false signs and wonders that were so convincing to have even the elect convinced. Also infiltrations of various sorts weakening the church.

In most cases in modern churches we do not have a collective prophetic voice operating and in fact it is not thought to be needed. Yet the Body has been given this very gift so the church can have ears and eyes to discern what is true spiritually.

As we approach a late hour in the scheme of things we will become sitting ducks to the deceptions that will arise unless we reinstate this important gift.

The pattern is in scripture - a group of prophets serving the church with the exercise of their special gift.

Sadly the prophetic voice has been muted and the church has adopted a top down structure so that Teachers have become predominant - just like Paul said we would have many teachers and very few fathers.

The operation of these gifts involve a return to unity rather than management and control. Then 'the least' who are gifted in this was may, at last, be heard.

I feel very strongly about this, and as the hour gets later, it becomes clear to me that this present blindness, if not corrected, will render the present church as we know it even more spiritually impotent.

I think that home based church will probably have a better chance of having the potency and spiritual awareness needed to be effective.

Greengardener · Jul 13, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Yes exactly, and it would be a lot easier to test such things if we had a 'fellowship of the prophets' to bounce things off.

What comes to mind next is about what's written in Hebrews, that God has in the past spoken to us in various ways, but now has spoken to us by His Son. While God did give Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers for the edification of the Body, surely He didn't leave us without all the necessary resources to be effective with those. This is indeed an interesting situation you present. I'll check back when I have more time, as it's quite late here. May you find a good answer, Carl.

Carl Emerson · Jul 13, 2019

devin553344 said:
I've received prophecy before from angels and God. Those things that came true I attribute to God. But I have also had tons of false prophecies with no way to tell if they are false or not. Basically natural and man made disasters and such. Or no time given on when it will happen sometimes. If I told people my prophetic messages there would be true mixed with false. Which is why I usually wait for them to happen and keep them to myself.

Well the prophetic was never meant to be an individual sport in NT times. There is meant to be mutual accountability between folks with this gift.

devin553344 · Jul 13, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Well the prophetic was never meant to be an individual sport in NT times. There is meant to be mutual accountability between folks with this gift.

Wasn't aware of that, is that in the scriptures?

topher694 · Jul 13, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
I opened a thread on the Word of God but this issue arose which deserves a new thread...

Can we focus on the issue of non-mention in Scripture.

We use the scripture to weigh the validity of words and experiences claimed to be Godly.

But what about experiences that have no mention in scripture?

You will notice that the spirits of the prophets are to be subject to the prophets not the teachers.

This means that the truth or otherwise of utterances was to be spiritually discerned.

The problem with this is that our churches generally are not structured to do this.
The fellowship of the prophets that should serve the church in this way generally does not exist.

The foundation of unity needed for discernment gifts to operate has in most cases been replaced by top down management, so that 'the least', who may be carrying God's word of discernment, are not heard.

And here we are heading into a time of great deception without these key means to seperate the true from the false.

In most cases then we have spiritually blind churches susceptible to deception.

This is a serious issue with little mention or discussion at a time when we know false signs and wonders will increase and potentially deceive the very elect.

Those with a gift of prophesy should collectively have this key role in churches but in most cases we are in total ignorance of whats going down spiritually because the prophetic voice has been muted through ignorance or worse still silenced.

Yep.

Perhaps a clearer way of understanding prophets being subject to prophets today would be is this:
Those who are experienced in the prophetic themselves should be the ones evaluating the prophetic. There are plenty out there (and here) today who seem to be experts in pointing out "false prophets" yet they've never uttered a prophetic word in their lives. However when church leadership has no such person(s) that creates a problem for the prophetic (and other gifts) to flow.

In our church we flow in the prophetic, we train in the prophetic, we teach on the prophetic and we have an order that allows prophecy to be judged by prophetic people. When I train on it it usually looks something like this:

Character & integrity
Character & integrity
Character & integrity
Order & respect
Order & respect
Flowing in the gift itself
Character & integrity
Character & integrity

topher694 · Jul 13, 2019

devin553344 said:
The problem with prophecy in church is that many are false prophets and just confuse the issue. So most churches refuse to hear prophecy. Probably a good policy.

Just because some people abuse the truth doesn't mean we should refuse the truth. If we followed this thought process on every biblical principle, there would literally be nothing left of the Bible to teach.

I'm convinced the best way to combat the ignorant, the abuses, misuses and false is not to hide from it, forbid it or point out all of the abuses. No, the best way to combat the false is to continually demonstrate the authentic.

Carl Emerson · Jul 13, 2019

devin553344 said:
Wasn't aware of that, is that in the scriptures?

1 Cor 14
32 The spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.

topher694 · Jul 13, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
OK, the last church I attended I fully participated, and loved many aspects of it, especially the music.

As time went on something caused me to feel very uneasy to the point of being close to weeping in the services.

Then the Lord revealed to me that the Pastors son was sleeping with one of the ladies in the church, and the whole church was as a result, unsafe. I prayed over that for 12 months seeking wisdom and finally delivered the word in writing to the Pastor. My word was rejected so the whole family left... A few months later the truth came out. I since learned that others had received the same word.

The church shrunk from 150 to 15 in line with what I saw in the vision.

This is an example of an appalling lack of discernment and the failure of the top down authority structure that doesn't allow for the least to be heard.

This is reasonably common problem and has been mentioned on the forum before.

So the bible will tell us about the issues we will encounter but we need His living Word to know who and when.

That was a very wise way of handling a extremely difficult situation.

Carl Emerson · Jul 13, 2019

topher694 said:
Yep.

Perhaps a clearer way of understanding prophets being subject to prophets today would be is this:
Those who are experienced in the prophetic themselves should be the ones evaluating the prophetic. There are plenty out there (and here) today who seem to be experts in pointing out "false prophets" yet they've never uttered a prophetic word in their lives. However when church leadership has no such person(s) that creates a problem for the prophetic (and other gifts) to flow.

In our church we flow in the prophetic, we train in the prophetic, we teach on the prophetic and we have an order that allows prophecy to be judged by prophetic people. When I train on it it usually looks something like this:

Character & integrity
Character & integrity
Character & integrity
Order & respect
Order & respect
Flowing in the gift itself
Character & integrity
Character & integrity

Right on the button...

Carl Emerson · Jul 13, 2019

topher694 said:
That was a very wise way of handling a extremely difficult situation.

It was also gut wrenching...

topher694 · Jul 13, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
It was also gut wrenching...

I bet it was. But the gut wrenching feelings are also a sign that you're doing it with the right heart.

devin553344 · Jul 13, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
1 Cor 14
32 The spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.

Are we allowed to prophecy here in the forums? I thought that was against forum rules?

topher694 · Jul 13, 2019

devin553344 said:
Are we allowed to prophecy here in the forums? I thought that was against forum rules?

It is... and rightfully so.

devin553344 · Jul 13, 2019

topher694 said:
It is... and rightfully so.

Yes I was aware we can post it in our blogs, but not in the forums. So there's no way to establish a prophecy group. In the spirit of what Carl is suggesting shouldn't there be a specific forum for prophecy. And if not then why? 1 Corinthians 14:30-32

topher694 · Jul 14, 2019

devin553344 said:
Yes I was aware we can post it in our blogs, but not in the forums. So there's no way to establish a prophecy group. In the spirit of what Carl is suggesting shouldn't there be a specific forum for prophecy. And if not then why? 1 Corinthians 14:30-32

Well in a perfect world, something like that would be great. I'm all for prophecy. But realistically it would be chaos. Way too hard to oversee. Way too many different "styles" of prophecy (confusion). And while there would be mods who have the power to oversee via the typical means, there would be no true enforceable form of prophetic order and authority or accountability. Say I was in charge, why should you listen to me if I tell you not to release a word? We don't have a personal relationship. You haven't been trained by me. Maybe I'm not someone you should be listening to.

That sort of thing is manageable when it is people talking to people online. But throw in "thus saith the Lord" and you've upped the stakes considerably.

EDIT: main issue: prophecy shouldn't be anonymous.

devin553344 · Jul 14, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Well the prophetic was never meant to be an individual sport in NT times. There is meant to be mutual accountability between folks with this gift.

I have had an angel visit me one time and gave me instruction and prophecy for the next day, very specific and it came true. Beyond a reasonable doubt. It was a personal prophecy not meant for other people I think.

Carl Emerson · Jul 14, 2019

devin553344 said:
Yes I was aware we can post it in our blogs, but not in the forums. So there's no way to establish a prophecy group. In the spirit of what Carl is suggesting shouldn't there be a specific forum for prophecy. And if not then why? 1 Corinthians 14:30-32

This is a good question - I am not convinced that ministry can work on line, face to face fellowship in unity needs to be the foundation for prophesy and discernment to work effectively but i am happy to be corrected.

devin553344 · Jul 14, 2019

topher694 said:
Well in a perfect world, something like that would be great. I'm all for prophecy. But realistically it would be chaos. Way too hard to oversee. Way too many different "styles" of prophecy (confusion). And while there would be mods who have the power to oversee via the typical means, there would be no true enforceable form of prophetic order and authority or accountability. Say I was in charge, why should you listen to me if I tell you not to release a word? We don't have a personal relationship. You haven't been trained by me. Maybe I'm not someone you should be listening to.

That sort of thing is manageable when it is people talking to people online. But throw in "thus saith the Lord" and you've upped the stakes considerably.

EDIT: main issue: prophecy shouldn't be anonymous.

I agree with that for the most part. We've had plenty of people share their prophecies here not knowing the rules and I'm usually confused by it.

topher694 · Jul 14, 2019

devin553344 said:
I agree with that for the most part. We've had plenty of people share their prophecies here not knowing the rules and I'm usually confused by it.

This made me chuckle

Radagast · Jul 14, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
You will notice that the spirits of the prophets are to be subject to the prophets not the teachers.

Actually, no.

1 John 4:2-3 encourages us to test the false prophets against Biblical truth. The teachers necessarily play a lead role in that.

Carl Emerson said:
so that 'the least', who may be carrying God's word of discernment, are not heard.

Sadly, most of those who think they have the gift of discernment, don't.

Non-mention in Scripture

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