Noah's Ark

Job8 · Dec 3, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
There are no reputable historians who are seriously contending that there was a historical Noah.

Well these "reputable historians" at the very least should have travelled to Mount Ararat. http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html . Let's face it. The anti-biblical bias of so-called scholars and historians is an established fact. What should Christians do? Keep on trusting the biblical account and keep on rejecting all the bias as inconsequential.

The more important question is "Why do biased historians and the left-liberal media ignore confirmation of the veracity of the Bible?" The answer is that if they believed the Bible they would be thorougly convicted, and would need to seriously repent of all their foolishness.

Aelred of Rievaulx · Dec 3, 2015

Job8 said:
Well these "reputable historians" at the very least should have travelled to Mount Ararat. http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html . Let's face it. The anti-biblical bias of so-called scholars and historians is an established fact. What should Christians do? Keep on trusting the biblical account and keep on rejecting all the bias as inconsequential.

The more important question is "Why do biased historians and the left-liberal media ignore confirmation of the veracity of the Bible?" The answer is that if they believed the Bible they would be thorougly convicted, and would need to seriously repent of all their foolishness.

It's not a conspiracy theory, historical data doesn't exist in order for people to understand the bible historically in quite a number of instances...

Ararat is one mountain which has been traditionally associated with the deluge, this is an association which is interesting to historians of religion not to archaeologists who are interested in a large boat. Other associations are Mt Judi, which was prominent in Eastern Christianities and today predominates within Muslim circles. The real notions behind this are that mountains, to ancient Middle Eastern people, were places where deities dwelt. It's why Zion became so associated with Yhwh or the Samarian Mt Gerazim with the northern Yahwists. What is interesting about these associations is a matter of religious identity and the formation of sacrificial centres, cults, to the important deities who people considered to have dwelt on these mountains. These are important in that they form the basic foundation and legitimation of the centralised authorities which grew around these mountains. The mountains people understood to be sacred were the ones which people made pilgrimages to. This has more or less survived within many Abrahamic religions although it has been to some extent discarded within some forms of Protestantism.

mindlight · Dec 3, 2015

SkyWriting said:
According to the scriptures, there was no wind or waves.
There is no mention of a storm or even rocking of the boat.

A global deluge that lasted 40 days and nights without any wind or waves is extremely unlikely. The fountains of the deep opened and that would have caused currents and surges. Also water would have moved with considerable force on reaching a certain height into unflooded areas. So there would have been very fast moving currents ripping up terrain. The bible says this was a flood to destroy all life so describing it has ferocious is accurate. Also the weight of water on tectonic plates must have caused some shifts and changes- underwater earthquakes would in turn generate tsunamis. I think the cargo ship type design of Noahs Ark also pointed to the need to survive a rough ocean.

SkyWriting · Dec 6, 2015

mindlight said:
A global deluge that lasted 40 days and nights without any wind or waves is extremely unlikely. The fountains of the deep opened and that would have caused currents and surges. Also water would have moved with considerable force on reaching a certain height into unflooded areas. So there would have been very fast moving currents ripping up terrain. The bible says this was a flood to destroy all life so describing it has ferocious is accurate. Also the weight of water on tectonic plates must have caused some shifts and changes- underwater earthquakes would in turn generate tsunamis. I think the cargo ship type design of Noahs Ark also pointed to the need to survive a rough ocean.

Lots of things are unlikely involving scripture and water.
Wind and waves are not in the flood story.
So don't add them in just to support some other fictional tale.
If you want to add them in to support what scripture does
say, then fine.

I suggest you watch video's of the recent Tsunami events.
The most dramatic ones show crashing waves on the beach.
But think about the entire event. 99.9% of the event could be
documented as tide rising under a boat with zero drama.

Even much of the dramatic video is water slowly rising.

-WATER PROVIDED for Jehoshaphat and his allied army (2 Kings 3:16-20)—“Ye shall not see wind, neither shall ye see rain; yet that valley shall be filled with water, that ye may drink, both ye, and your cattle, and your beasts.”
-SEA STORM STILLED ON COMMAND (Matt 8:23; Mark 4:37; Luke 8:22)
-WATER TURNED TO BLOOD—Water everywhere became BLOOD. The fish died, and the river stank. (Exodus 7:14-25
-DRINKING WATER FIXED—Bitter waters of Marah sweetened (Ex. 15:23-25)
-WATER from the rock at Rephidim (Ex. 17:5-7)
-WATER PROVIDED IN DESERT—from the rock, after smitten twice by Moses, in the desert of Zin (Num. 20:7-11)
-WATER from a hollow place “that is in Lehi” (Judg. 15:19)
-WATER TURNED TO WINE (John 2:1-11)

mindlight · Dec 6, 2015

SkyWriting said:
Lots of things are unlikely involving scripture and water.
Wind and waves are not in the flood story.
So don't add them in just to support some other fictional tale.
If you want to add them in to support what scripture does
say, then fine.

I suggest you watch video's of the recent Tsunami events.
The most dramatic ones show crashing waves on the beach.
But think about the entire event. 99.9% of the event could be
documented as tide rising under a boat with zero drama.

Even much of the dramatic video is water slowly rising.

-WATER PROVIDED for Jehoshaphat and his allied army (2 Kings 3:16-20)—“Ye shall not see wind, neither shall ye see rain; yet that valley shall be filled with water, that ye may drink, both ye, and your cattle, and your beasts.”
-SEA STORM STILLED ON COMMAND (Matt 8:23; Mark 4:37; Luke 8:22)
-WATER TURNED TO BLOOD—Water everywhere became BLOOD. The fish died, and the river stank. (Exodus 7:14-25
-DRINKING WATER FIXED—Bitter waters of Marah sweetened (Ex. 15:23-25)
-WATER from the rock at Rephidim (Ex. 17:5-7)
-WATER PROVIDED IN DESERT—from the rock, after smitten twice by Moses, in the desert of Zin (Num. 20:7-11)
-WATER from a hollow place “that is in Lehi” (Judg. 15:19)
-WATER TURNED TO WINE (John 2:1-11)

Do you really believe that there were no other boats at the time of Noah other than the Ark. The Ark survived and the others did not. The flood was an event designed to destroy all life. Gently rising waters would not do that.

Caleb-D · Jan 19, 2016

I put the word of God above all scientific theory that goes against the teachings of the Bible.

patricius79 · Jan 23, 2016

Kate84 said:
Hi, I'm sorry if this has been discussed, I expect it has but I haven't found it. I was watching the Joanna Lumley: The quest for Noah's Ark documentary and was surprised to learn about a tablet that was found written in the earliest form of writing, cuneiform. It was written over a thousand years before the bible, and includes the Babylonian story of the flood. Another tablet is another thousand years older and an older version of the same story. Apparently the gods took an oath not to tell anybody that they were going to send a great flood, but the god, Aya, who was responsible for the idea of creating human beings didn't want his creation to be destroyed. He gave one of his devotees a dream telling him to pull down his house and build a boat and put his family and animals on it. The rain and flood came and all mankind was turned to clay, the man and his family were the only survivors and the boat came to rest somewhere in eastern Turkey, like Noah's boat.
If it has been discussed before can someone help me find the thread please?
I know this doesn't disprove Noah's story, it's just a bit weird that it's so similar.

It sounds like confirmation of the Biblical story of the flood to me (not that the Bible needs confirmation, but it doesn't hurt). My understanding is that the Biblical flood was a catastrophic regional flood.

Colter · Jan 23, 2016

When the Hebrews were redacting their history in Babylon they found it impossible to trace their bloodlines back to Adam, so they drown the whole world in its own wickedness. The flood story is a genealogical device, they made no claims of writing by inspiration. But in order for it to be accepted there would have been a local flood leg and about a Noah, his herds and a house built in boat fashion in anticipation of the periodic deluges of the river valley.

NO other race on earth remembers being related to Noah. But floods? There have been many. We just witnessed an astonishing tsunami in Japan. In ancient times the Japanese may have attributed such a flood to the Gods. Today we know it was just an underwater earthquake.

Colter · Jan 23, 2016

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
Most history-of-the-bible debates at the moment focus on David/Solomon. Everything before this period (Iron Age IIa) is understood to be mythical or legendary and most certainly not history. The David/Solomon era is currently a debated issue in that there are some scholars (notably the biblical minimalists) who deny that there ever was a United Monarchy, their interlocutors (notably people like Israel Finkelstein) argue that there may have been a historical David but that the stories about him have embellished considerably and that the historical David was something of a bandit lord.

There are no reputable historians who are seriously contending that there was a historical Noah. Noah is the stuff of myth, of two gods Elohim and Yhwh, one angry at humanity, probably of the blending of categories (the sons of gods and the daughters of men producing hybrid beings), and this deity decides to send a flood. Elohim is the more merciful deity, he seeks out to save Noah. The text is rather messy in that there are some dubious verbal structures in it which shows the attempt of the redactor in trying to force the two deities into one, this was mistaken by the Documentary hypothesis for two documents in the past but I think there's good reason to doubt that.

As a kid I was very skeptical of many of the OT stories. And it occurred to me that if God really regretted creating man because of the wickedness in the world, he would have destroyed Satan, but no, he drowns the whole earth and keeps Saten around to start more trouble?? And the flood didn't even work, man is just as wicked as ever! So (the authors) have God making mistakes in creating man, then he comes up with a bad idea to kill the world and keep the devil?????

david rodriguez · Jan 23, 2016

Job8 said:
Jack,
Since you are a scientist, you would appreciate The Genesis Flood by Whitcomb and Morris. They, along with countless other Christians, treat the Flood narrative as factual and historical. And why not? Who gave Moses that narrative?

great!!! the year 2014....
Hidden 'Ocean' Discovered Deep Underground Near Earth's Core
www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/13/hidden-ocean-earth...
We may have another "ocean" to ... A new study suggests that a hidden "ocean" is nestled in the Earth's mantle ... "The Huffington Post" is a ... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/13/hidden-ocean-earth-core-underground-video_n_5491692.html
Genesis 7:11 "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.12The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights."

Norbert L · Jan 26, 2016

Job8 said:
Mishandling science is not nearly as serious as mishandling the Word of God, and dismissing the creation account. Science is fallible, the Bible is infallible.

I believe that science and the Bible are both infallible, it's the conclusions people reach from both studies of interest that could be fallible.

JackRT said:
Speaking as both a Christian and as a scientist I do not think the flood narrative is at all factual or historical. Sober? perhaps. I am pleased though that you realize that much of the bible is legendary, allegorical and mythological. And folklore too as Rabbi Moses Maimonides has pointed out.

Since I've heard John Lennox's explanation of Genesis, that it is neither legendary, allegorical, mythological and just literal but rather literalistic. I also ask myself about the record of Noah, that both man's biblical thinking and scientific thinking do not fully understand the events that took place.

Hoghead1 · Jan 26, 2016

OK< what exactly is Lennox's background and credentials?

Norbert L · Jan 26, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
OK< what exactly is Lennox's background and credentials?

I would say his credentials are about as good as one can get for a Christian in the science world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lennox

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