But you believe in emergence right? The whole (person in this case) can have novel properties (purposes etc) which the parts (atoms) individually do not have.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
But you believe in emergence right? The whole (person in this case) can have novel properties (purposes etc) which the parts (atoms) individually do not have.So, our biological "purposes" and "imperatives" are merely the result of the path of least resistance in a series of interactions of "dead" and "unpurposed" matter and energy.
Logical purpose?I think it's possible for there to be a purpose to the universe, but the precedence is logical, not chronological.
Sure. Your premise:I don't see how. Could you explain please?
What was prior to God?If something has a purpose, the giving of purpose must be prior to the thing purposively done.
That is not the purpose the Earth is there for. I think you have your language wrong. If you look at the definition of purpose (here purpose - definition of purpose by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. ) it is an end for which something is done. So the earth could not originally exist for a purpose for a being which existed after it.
But you believe in emergence right? The whole (person in this case) can have novel properties (purposes etc) which the parts (atoms) individually do not have.
Correct me if my logic is wrong.
- If something has a purpose, the giving of purpose must be prior to the thing purposively done.
- The universe is everything.
- Therefore, the universe can have no purpose, because the giving of purpose would have to be prior to it, but that is impossible because there cannot be "prior to everything". That's because if it were purportedly prior it would be a thing, and therefore not be outside of the universe and prior to it, but part of it.
Note I am using the word "universe" to mean all things including God (assuming He exists), rather than God's creation which could have a purpose to it.
- So there can only be purpose within the universe, but not a purpose to it.
Correct me if my logic is wrong.
Agreed.
- If something has a purpose, the giving of purpose must be prior to the thing purposively done.
- The universe is everything.
Why? If you are proposing that the universe had a beginning, then it must have had a cause. That cause must have been external and independent of the universe. This cause, be it the Christian God or something else, could have given 'purpose' to the universe.
- Therefore, the universe can have no purpose, because the giving of purpose would have to be prior to it, but that is impossible because there cannot be "prior to everything". That's because if it were purportedly prior it would be a thing, and therefore not be outside of the universe and prior to it, but part of it.
If the universe is timeless and has no beginning, never 'was not', then your proposition of something before it is non-sensical. You cannot apply your first premise to it.
Note I am using the word "universe" to mean all things including God (assuming He exists), rather than God's creation which could have a purpose to it.
- So there can only be purpose within the universe, but not a purpose to it.
I see. SO I could say the purpose of the universe is to be my playground. But that is not a reason the universe itself exists, it is just a use we make of it. Even if we tried to will it away, we could not do so.We can always "repurpose" something, as we are "repurposing" the universe.
Does it have a purpose then?
In the end Purpose is a made up term used by minds, we can apply it as we see fit.
Ok I was just ondering is you would say "It's not the case that because atoms have no purpose therefore brains (made from atoms) have no purpose. "Yes, but not in the sense you do. We've been down this road before and while I understand that a compound object may have properties none of its parts posses individually, I don't see the disconnect that I've understood you envision.
That a plank of wood and a rock, when combined, create a lever which allows us to lift weight in a way that neither the plank nor the rock can by themselves, does not in the least surprise me nor fascinate me. We understand why this specific arrangement of these two items create new properties in the same way we can understand much more complex compounds and why specific properties arise from the combination of their constituent parts. Also, before this is brought up, that we do not understand why EVERY SINGLE property arises from specific combinations of things, does not in any way mean that there is something magical or unexplainABLE at work, merely something currently unexplained.
Universe = all existent things. If God exists, therefore He is part of it.Why would God be part of the universe? If you decided to create something, would you necessarily become a part of it?
- If something has a purpose, the giving of purpose must be prior to the thing purposively done.
- The universe is everything.
- Therefore, the universe can have no purpose, because the giving of purpose would have to be prior to it, but that is impossible because there cannot be "prior to everything". That's because if it were purportedly prior it would be a thing, and therefore not be outside of the universe and prior to it, but part of it.
- So there can only be purpose within the universe, but not a purpose to it.
In any case it would have to be concluded (presuming your deduction is correct) that God can´t have a purpose.
Which suggests a good response to the ever recurring argument "without God our existence wouldn´t have a purpose": "What´s wrong with not having a purpose? God (allegedly the epitome of perfection) doesn´t have a purpose, either."
I was accepting GS´s premises for purposes of my response.Maybe Gods purpose is within Himself?
Good point. However, I would have to be explained why an unlimited being which is completely fulfilled in itself suddenly starts creating stuff.Also God is an unlimited being which is completely fulfilled in itself, so it is hard to compare God to us.
Creation is an act of grace, an unmerited favor.
That which is non-existent cannot merit its own existence because it has no merits.
God's reason for creating is His grace; God's purpose for His creation is the revelation of His glory.
I think god just got called a narcissist.
I see. SO I could say the purpose of the universe is to be my playground. But that is not a reason the universe itself exists, it is just a use we make of it. Even if we tried to will it away, we could not do so.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?