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Jeffz · Sep 17, 2009

It is very important with newcomers to watch what others do after the meeting, as many have the 'right' words but thier actions do not follow rightly. You can tell by thier fruit, actions/attitudes who is working a rightious program, who has an understanding of a relationship with God. Those who are manipulating newcomers are easily detected. Find those who not only say the right things, but those that walk the walk not just talk the talk.
one man set free,
jeffz

chilehed · Sep 17, 2009

stelow said:
I think you were very clear in making your point. I'm not sure about your last sentence when you say: "it's because they want to get sex." I'm not sure how you would know that to always be true. Does the crack head who's been selling herself for money to buy crack, just want to get sex?

I'm not aware that I was talking about someone hooking for crack. When I hear someone say they're horny, and then they jump in the sack with someone, I figure it's because they wanted sex.

I've known my share of coke harlots and hookers, and off the job they wanted some that wasn't business. So when someone comes into NA with a bunch of emotional wreckage trying to get clean, and notices that the people there look better than the crowd they've been running with, it's understandable that they might want to find emotional comfort the only way they know how.

Unfortunately, that only gets in the way of their recovery. No surprises there, we've learned to misidentify our deepest emotional needs as merely "wanting to get some" and when we act out on that it gets in the way of taking care of the real problem.

Dan_09 · Sep 20, 2009

Ok, so back again with an update. Last post I mentioned starting from there that I will stop weed other than once a week on a Friday. It's been about 2 full weeks since then plus into the third week 3days in so about 2 and a half weeks. I have been doing ok, wouldn't say great though, as it's obviously not the easiest thing to do.

The first 'week' relapsed quite a bit smoked 4/7 when meant to b 1/7. Still an improvement on the 100days+ straight before that.

The second 'week' relapsed the same 4/7 but I thought at least I'm getting somewhere.

The third 'week' which is this week will hopefully be better still, I relapsed on the Saturday (doh!) but since then nothing and am not anticipating smoking at all till Friday, which means this week will be 2/7, I'll update whether this came true or not, but I think I am slowing gaining more mental control over things.

Also during the last week I decided to quit cigarettes for good, and moderate my alcohol intake ie quit other than in a social scene, not me getting trollied every night (at least 10 beers/shots etc) before I got stoned. Good thing is that tomorrow I will have gone 7 days without smoking or drinking even a drop.

Usually in the past when I have tried to quit weed (ie the past 2 years) I have just substituted it for alcohol and like mentioned by others in earlier posts, this is not quitting anything as I am just passing the addictive mindset onto another substance.

During these last couple of weeks there have been so many side effects from chronic insomnia, anger, angst, anxiety, tachycardia (rapid heart beat especially at night), sweating, headaches, not to mention the standard cravings for the drugs, coughing, which is my body trying to expel the tar and that sort of thing from my lungs, lack of apetitie, overall malaise, crazy crazy vivid dreams/nightmares the whole night (from the weed mainly I think, has happened before). For anyone here with the same issues I have found doing exercise, in my case running helps A LOT. I can actually feel the weed toxins sweating out of my forehead. (no I'm not crazy ) and I also feel more calm and less agitated. It feels as though recently my body has been hyper-agitated (if that's even a word) not having any depressants to calm it down.

It must seem stupid to go through some of this all over again every Saturday (after smoking on Friday), but I'm pretty sure that once a week will not be in my body enough to cause those symptoms above, and that It's the fact I've never really stopped at all for a couple years now alcohol included that's probably catching up on me, so I'm hoping these withdrawal side effects will slowly ease off even with myself drinking on occasion and smoking once a week. Well that's the plan anyway .

Yes weed is illegal where I'm from and doing it even once a week is illegal, and I guess not exactly how a good person should act but I find the legal/illegal arguments too clouded by political forces to be correct/incorrect so not really looking for any comments on that side of things.

I haven't been to a meeting, I looked them up even found out where the buildings where, but like stelow said, I'm not really sure if they are right for me, especially in the city I live and the other people attending at the meetings... I am trying through just mental strength (mine isn't the best), and through the support of my partner, another friend and this forum. It seems to be going ok, I always expected to relapse, as that was the case on all previous attempts at quitting my extreme use. This time I just thought I'd accept the relapse deal with it move on and try again the next day. It has been working for me.

On a side note, being off these substances has really opened my eyes to the world how large it is how wonderful and diverse it is. Especially nature seems to be almost magical. I guess God is within all these things and I was stupid to be clouded and missing out on all the world has to offer locked in a room drinking and smoking till I died I guess, I didn't even have a job due to the recession and that kind of made things worse as you can do that all day everyday and you never have to be sober or anything to face anyone or anything.

Thanks for the help so far.

Jeffz · Sep 21, 2009

So have you convinced yourself with all of your rationalazations, comprimising, justifing?
alot of malarky my friend, the addiction has you lambasted, in denial and just roundabout screwed and tattooed. Just telling it like it is. I think you need to hear the truth. The truth is you have not stopped using long enough to see the world as is really is. It takes quiet a while for all of the toxins to leave the body tissue. Why do you want to play games? Go to a meeting and ask for help none of can do it on our own.
Try crying out to God almighty to save you!! He came to set the captives free and heal the broken hearted. I for one was held captive and was definatly broken. If you find yourself being angered by thoughts like "how dare he" thats good, it means it might be getting through. Get honest with yourself go look in a mirror and tell yourself what you have posted and see how that fits. Then come back and talk. Maybe the Holy Spirit can get through to you as you look yourself in that mirror.

one man set free and you can be to,
Jeffrey

chilehed · Sep 21, 2009

Dan_09 said:
...On a side note, being off these substances has really opened my eyes to the world how large it is how wonderful and diverse it is...)

With the benefit of hindsight, I see that I was detoxing for about six months after I stopped using, perhaps as long as nine.

Your post sounds like a typical bit of rationalization. You couldn't stick with your plan for even a single week, and it doesn't even involve abstaining from doing dope - it's just controlled using.

The problem is that the thing that's driving you to use can't be treated unless you stop using all drugs altogether. You won't be able to have the truly healthy relationships you desire, or even be able to identify them for what they are, until you begin to recover from addiction.

You're not really sure that meetings are right for you. How do you expect to find out if you don't go to a few? Don't you imagine that if you meet someone you know there that it's because they need to be there as well? Your reasons for not going are a load of horse manure. You say that what you're doing is working for you...I say that you haven't the slightest idea what "working" means.

Sorry to be so blunt, please don't take it as anything but deep concern. But I've heard this same stuff from other people hundreds of times, and it's identical to the lies I told myself before I got clean.

Let me propose a challenge: stop using all drugs (including alcohol) and faithfully attend NA meetings every day for the next 90 days. Take all the suggestions, get phone numbers from the men you meet and call them all every day. If in 90 days you decide the program can't help you, then bail out.

What do you have to lose?

stelow · Sep 22, 2009

Dan_09 sounds like you've made some progress, I hope soon you will quit all together. If you have a bible try to read some everyday, some simple prayers everyday would be worth it too. Build on your relationship with Jesus, the best friend you'll ever have. Don't pay attention to those who will want to judge you or put a stumbling-block in your path, you stay focused and with time these addictions will be a thing of the past.
God bless you and keep you.

stelow · Sep 26, 2009

How's it going

Dan_09 · Sep 26, 2009

Well here I am again. Third week ended. I did what I said, after saturday I didn't smoke cigarettes drink or smoke weed untill Friday. Had some bad news about a job, I was meant to go to the trial Friday morning, then Thursday night they called me saying they had better candidates, not the best news to have the day before I smoked, as the main reason I used to smoke so much was to try and get away from problems. I could see this at the time but went ahead with Friday anyway, it ended with me smoking weed, [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing off my friends, I even got into a fight with a main friend of mine, I'd made a fool of him in front of a few people, I thought was funny and harmless I guess he didn't think so, it ended with him tryna nail me, although I didn't fight I'm not really into physical violence against other people, I still got what I deserved, I just left, but this was all after/during the day of smoking weed. So I went home, smoked some more, got up today, and just couldn't take the immense headache/highover, so ended up smoking all day today, and even bought a bottle of wine to down, back to the old ways, I hadn't even drank a drop for 11 days.

I can see that you all are right about it not being good still smoking once a week.

I am just here now to say that I will take that advice, and next time ie tomorrow when I wake up even with a headache from the drugs I won't go back onto it. I can see that the once a week doesn't work due to the fact that the day after you feel totally crap and want to relapse. I get stronger everyday after the fact, and the funny thing is there has been a major urge for the last 2 weeks as I got closer to Friday that I wasn't keen at all, because I knew inside on that Saturday morning it was like hell going through all the motions again. I can see that quitting totally is the only way now. In regards to alcohol, having a beer or two going out with friends isn't a problem, and I personally don't like it when people abstain fully because of a past addiction as there are too many reasons/positives for moderate use, but on the weed side I think that's it, same with cigarettes, although I have no reason at all to go back to smoking.

I'm still not sure about the meetings, I know you'd like to say that it is very important me going to these meetings, and like I said before in my city, I don't think it's the best idea. The meth epidemic here is unreal and those meetings would only put me in a worse place, I can have 'meetings' with my partner who can support me and provide the same sort of help as the NA meetings.

It's been a long three weeks but I'm glad that since I started I've made progress and had more days clean then the rest of the year combined. You might think I told you so etc, but I find finding out for myself is more real, making the mistake is more real than to just accept others opinions. I have seen it now, that once a week is not a good idea.

Dan, still trying.

Jeffz · Sep 26, 2009

I can only stay clean one day at a time a week at a time is to focused on the future and I lose sight of today. There comes a time that I need to get honest with myself, brutely honest. This affliction will manipulate us into picking up again, by telling me a beer is alright and once I get a little tight, I lose. Then my battle is with myself trying to convince myself that it will be alright to have just one toke or toot or line or fix whatever, then I am back being controled by the addiction. One is to many and a thousand is never enough.
jeffrey

stelow · Sep 27, 2009

One compromise usually leads to another, that's just the way it is. It can be a hard lesson to learn and some people never learn, until it's to late. I don't know what your relationship with Christ Jesus is, but if you've never trusted in His saving grace, it would be a good place to start.

chilehed · Sep 28, 2009

Dan_09 said:
Well here I am again....Dan, still trying.

Dan, I'm honestly sorry, you know what I think but since you were set on your plan I was really hoping it would work for you.

I don't understand why you think that because there's a huge meth problem in your city, NA might be a bad place for you. To me that sounds like avoiding a hospital because there's an STD epidemic in the streets.

There are real problems with having your partner acting as your support system in addiction recovery. Your relationship is already affected by addiction, because addiction affects all of our relationships. So relying on your partner for the kind of help you need is kind of like washing your hands in tainted water. It's a really bad idea - your partner is too close to you to be able to provide an adequately objective viewpoint and the help you need. My wife's in the program, she sponsors people and she's a good sponsor...but she can't be my sponsor any more than I could be hers.

Keep coming back.

Dan_09 · Oct 10, 2009

I can see it won't work in the way that I wanted it and also it shouldn't. Because even once a week is still in a mindset of addiction. I have now decided to just stop. I'm still not sure whether to go to meetings, but I'm considering it, I see what you mean about the meth vs std hospital analogy, I guess I just thought many would be there not because they want to be but because the court made them go, and that being the case might do me more harm then good being around them, but I'll look into it again. Things are already better I had a few bad things related to jobs happen and almost went back to the old ways, for a week there I was just having a wine bottle or more a day and half a 50bag. I could see when I was in it was was happening, but did it anyway. It's been over a week since I stopped that destructive pattern and am feeling better again. Especially without the weight of knowing I am going to smoke again on Friday and having to go through the motions all over again. I'm having to distance myself from a lot of my friends that still smoke, because they are not really helping at all, but I still have other people I know who don't do drugs, and visiting my family and relatives more often also helps.

What are some good passages in the bible dealing with mental strength ie holding out against these addictive thoughts and actions. I need some help with this, I'm on the right track just need to stick to it.

Daniel

chilehed · Oct 11, 2009

Dan_09 said:
I can see it won't work in the way that I wanted it and also it shouldn't. Because even once a week is still in a mindset of addiction. I have now decided to just stop.

Dan, I've been wondering how you're doing. I'm sorry that you can't use occasionally without your life falling apart (I'm not envious of those who can do it, if there are such folks), but since that's the case I'm glad you've decided to stop altogether.

Dan_09 said:
I'm still not sure whether to go to meetings, but I'm considering it, I see what you mean about the meth vs std hospital analogy, I guess I just thought many would be there not because they want to be but because the court made them go, and that being the case might do me more harm then good being around them, but I'll look into it again.

You certainly will meet such people there, but they don't need to endanger your recovery. Just fall in with a different crowd, those who've really embraced recovery and are honestly seeking a new way to live. You can tell them apart quite easily.

I know quite a few folks who were court-ordered and hated it at the begining, but ended up staying on their own and remaining clean. That's what the judge was hoping for.

Dan_09 said:
Things are already better I had a few bad things related to jobs happen and almost went back to the old ways, for a week there I was just having a wine bottle or more a day and half a 50bag. I could see when I was in it was was happening, but did it anyway.

That's scary, isn't it? Watching yourself do things, knowing how screwed up they are and not being able or willing to stop. I absolutely understand.

Dan_09 said:
It's been over a week since I stopped that destructive pattern and am feeling better again. Especially without the weight of knowing I am going to smoke again on Friday and having to go through the motions all over again. I'm having to distance myself from a lot of my friends that still smoke, because they are not really helping at all, but I still have other people I know who don't do drugs, and visiting my family and relatives more often also helps.

I found that it was true that I needed to avoid my old friends and old haunts, there were just too many triggers. Also, it was like I'd become a threat to my using buddies, they did all kinds of things to convince me to get high. I even had to quit my job - I was working at a small shop, everyone including the owner got high, and when I started putting on my paint mask so I wouldn't smell it one guy snuck up and exhaled directly into the air inlet. That I could smell, and when I looked around the boss was laughing about it. So I picked up my tools and left.

Dan_09 said:
What are some good passages in the bible dealing with mental strength ie holding out against these addictive thoughts and actions. I need some help with this, I'm on the right track just need to stick to it.

Daniel

I've found that mental strength and willpower aren't the problem, I've always had plenty of both but they were twisted. I'd suggest any passages that involve begging God for mercy,that he might heal us.

That's what it means to ask mercy - it's a plea for God to change us.

Keep coming back.

stelow · Oct 11, 2009

Daniel; I don't no why, but for some reason these are the scriptures I chose for you. "May God richly bless you."

Steve

Colossians 3:12-17
12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.
15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

stelow · Oct 12, 2009

Come think of it, the hospital analogy is a good one, right now they're telling people to stay away from hospitals, unless you just have to go to one. The hospital is the best place to catch someone else's bug.

Dan_09 · Dec 19, 2009

It's been just over 2 months since I last posted, for the rest of October I didn't do so well, but at least cut down the amounts I bought from average $100-200 to $20-50. I did well the first half of November keeping the purchases to a minumum and only smoking half the days, but went a bit astray during the second half by smoking most days. December has been the revelation and that is why I finally have confidence to come back on here to explain what has been going on. I stopped on the 2nd of December and haven't smoked since, that is still not that long but it is the longest I've done since I've started smoking. And on top of that obviously haven't bought any since November 23rd, almost a month now, and at the same time as quitting weed I said I'd stop cigarettes and drinking everyday, because I usually just substitute drinking with smoking weed. I now only drink in a social setting, not at home everynight, and even when I do drink it's like half or even a quarter the quantities, and cigarettes are gone fully. I won't smoke weed for the rest of this month, and then will think about revisting it in a small way as in once or twice a month and now that I can see I can stop and have been able to I think I will surely be able to stick to that and not lapse back into the daily routine of drinking and getting high. Thanks for the help

Josephus777 · Jan 24, 2010

It sounds to me like you may want to investigate Mission Teens if you really want to serve the Lord and stop using. Or check out Faith Farm If you don't die in your mess eventually you will come around it took me 40yrs

stelow · Jan 24, 2010

Hey Dan, I hope you would consider just going without using at all, it's like playing a game of Russian roulette with your health. Josephus says it so correctly if you don't stop using, it really could cost you a long healthy life, I'm sure you don't want that.

glennz · Dec 23, 2010

In the event that you are unaware of this alternative, let me introduce you to Mission Teens, Inc. Mission Teens is in it's 41st year of serving our Lord. Over 18,000 residents have been through the program. It's motto is: "Help for the Desperate, for those willing to seek God for an answer to all of life's problems". Essentially, it's a Christian Rehab Program, but they like to call the program a Christian Descipleship Program. It's an 8 month, residential program. It's FREE. There are 15 centers nationwide, and their "Success Rate" is very high compared to secular programs or AA/NA. So, if you are "Broke, busted and disgusted", and you blew all your money on drugs or alcohol, or both, and you have no insurance, and you want to seek God to help you break your addiction and get you on the straight and narrow...this
program might be right for you. (The price is right!) Understand that Mission Teens is a highly structured program. They expect you to follow the rules...or leave. It's not jail. But you are not in control; God is. The program accepts, (contrary to it's name) men and women aged 18 or older.
It's on a bed availability basis; for most centers there are 10 applicants for every available bed; and if you are accepted into the program it's because God wants you there. However, if you can travel, there is usually room in a center somewhere in the US., plus in the last 2 years 3 more centers opened, and they are working on a Texas center now.

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