Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
If you take Genesis as literal, it conflicts with evolution. If you try to take the story as an allegory for evolution - well what's the allegory that lines up creation with evolution?
If you take Genesis as literal, it conflicts with evolution. If you try to take the story as an allegory for evolution - well what's the allegory that lines up creation with evolution?
What in the bible makes you deduce that "When hominids evolved sufficiently, to the point where they could think, and philosophize on something approaching modern levels, God revealed himself to them."
When we know humans could have done that as far back as perhaps 250-400k years?
You're just adding things to the Bible because it makes it easier on you. There's not even a hint of what you said anywhere.
Explaining an allegory, in this situation would be along the lines of this one thing in the Bible and this other thing in the Bible combine to say that natural selection, mutations, genetic drift, and gene flow took place over millions of years and eventually humans resulted.
What in the bible makes you deduce that "When hominids evolved sufficiently, to the point where they could think, and philosophize on something approaching modern levels, God revealed himself to them."
When we know humans could have done that as far back as perhaps 250-400k years?
You're just adding things to the Bible because it makes it easier on you. There's not even a hint of what you said anywhere.
Explaining an allegory, in this situation would be along the lines of this one thing in the Bible and this other thing in the Bible combine to say that natural selection, mutations, genetic drift, and gene flow took place over millions of years and eventually humans resulted.
Hebrew Dictionaries
Let’s start with the possible meanings of Yom;
The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (1980, Moody Press)"It can denote: 1. the period of light (as contrasted with the period of darkness), 2. the period of twenty-four hours, 3. a general vague "time," 4. a point of time, 5. a year (in the plural; I Sam 27:7; Ex 13:10, etc.)."Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (symbols omitted)
from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), [often used adv.]:--age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, end, evening, (for)ever(lasting), ever(more), full, life, as long as (...live), even now, old, outlived, perpetually, presently, remaineth, required, season, since, space, then, (process of) time, as at other times, in trouble, weather (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), whole (age), (full) year (-ly), youngerAs you can see, Hebrew dictionaries attest to the fact that the word Yom is used for anywhere from 12 hours up to a year, and even a vague "time period" of unspecified length.
Other Uses of Yom
Day is not the only translation for the word Yom. Here are some other uses.
Time
It is interesting to note that in 67 verses in the Old Testament, the word Yom is translated into the English word "time." For instance, in Genesis 4:3, it says "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." In this instance, Yom refers to a growing season, probably several months. Again, in Deuteronomy 10:10, it refers to a "time" equal to forty days. In I Kings 11:42, it says "And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years." In this case, Yom translated as the word "time" is equivalent to a 40 year period.
In Isaiah 30:8, it says "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever." In this case, Yom is equal to "forever." How long is forever? An infinite number of years...billions upon billions upon billons of years. If Yom can equal trillions of years here, then why not billions of years in Genesis?
Year
Four times in the Old Testament Yom is translated "year." In I Kings 1:1, "David was old and stricken in years..." In 2 Chronicles 21:19, "after the end of two years" and in the very next verse "Thirty and two years old." Finally, in Amos 4:4, "...and your tithes after three years." In each case, Yom represents years, not days.
Age
Eight times in the Old Testament Yom is translated "age." These range from sentences like "stricken in age," meaning old age (Genesis 18:11 and 24:1; Joshua 23:1 and 23:2), and other times it says "old age" (Genesis 21:2, Genesis 21:7). Genesis 47:28 refers to "the whole age of Jacob," therefore yom here refers to an entire lifetime. In Zechariah 8:4, it says old men and women will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, "each with cane in hand because of his age."
Ago
One time Yom is translated "ago." 1 Samuel 9:20 says "As for the donkeys you lost three days ago, ..."
Always
Four times yom is translated as "always," in Deuteronomy 5:29, 6:24, 14:23, and in 2 Chronicles 18:7. Always here can be interpreted as a lifetime...for instance, we are to keep the commandments of the Lord always (Deut. 5:29).
Season
Three times yom is translated "season." In Genesis 40:4, "...and they continued a season in ward." Again, in Joshua 24:7, "dwelt in the wilderness a long season," and in 2 Chronicles 15:3, "...a long season Israel hath been...". In each case yom represents a multi-month period.
Chronicles
When used in conjunction with the word dâbâr, yom is translated "chronicles" (27 times).
Continually
When used in conjunction with kôwl, yom is translated as "continually" (11 times). Once, in Psalm 139:16, it is translated continuance (without the kôwl).
Ever
Ever is used to represent a long period of time, such as in Deuteronomy 19:9, "to walk ever in his ways." Nineteen times Yom is translated "ever." The old testament uses "for ever" instead of the word forever. In sixteen cases of use of the word ever, for is placed before it, indicating a infinite period of time. I will not list them all (consult Strong's Concordance for a full listing) but here is an example. In Psalm 23:6, it says "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever." Here Yom is translated as the final word of this verse, ever. Thus, Yom in this verse, and 16 others, represents eternity.
Evermore
In one instance, when yom is used in conjunction with kôwl, Yom is translated "evermore." Deuteronomy 28:29, "...and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore;" thus representing either a lifetime or eternity.
Word Usage in the Old Testament
As you can see, Yom is used in a wide variety of situations related to the concept of time. Yom is not just for days...it is for time in general. How it is translated depends on the context of its use with other words.
Yom in the Creation Account
Even within the creation account, Yom is used to represent four different time periods.
The fourth usage of Yom in the creation account is in the summary for each of the six creation days, "and there was morning and evening the first day". Yom is used to represent a finite, long period of time, usually either millions or billions of years. To show support for this, consider the uses of Yom by Moses.
- Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate a 12-hour period
- Genesis 1:14 "And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate 24-hour days
- Genesis 2:4 "...in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate the entire creative week.
Moses Other Uses of Yom
Moses, the author of the first five books of the Bible, and of Psalm 90, used Yom in many different ways.
- Genesis 4:3 "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." In this instance, Yom refers to a growing season, probably several months.
- Genesis 43:9 "...then let me bear the blame for ever." Here, Moses uses Yom to represent eternity
- Genesis 44:32 "...then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever." Again, Moses uses Yom to represent eternity
- Deuteronomy 4:40 "...that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth the, for ever." Here Yom represents a physical lifetime
- Deuteronomy 10:10, "Now I stayed on the mountain forty days and nights, as I did the first time,..." Here, Yom is a "time" equal to forty days.
- Deuteronomy 18:5 "...to stand to minister in the name of the Lord, him and his sons for ever." Again, Yom is translated as eternity
- Deuteronomy 19:9 "...to love the Lord thy God, and to walk ever in His ways..." Here, Yom represents a lifetime. As long as we live we are to walk in his ways
As you can see, Moses used the word Yom to represent 12-hours, 24 hours, the creative week, forty days, several months, a lifetime, and eternity.
If the 1st chapter of Genesis is real and evolution is real, they should line up just fine.
What's the point of saying God did very specific things on specific days if you don't mean it?
The bible could read that - God created basic life - In a weeks' time some simple small life became plants and simple animals, some of those simple animals got more complex and even more complex and eventually humans arose. That could serve as a metaphor for evolution, but the Bible pretty much says the opposite of this.
A decent metaphor should at least maintain the order of creation and Genesis does not maintain the same order as evolution.
Nowhere in creation does it even hint at change over time, It just says that God created.
Why would God wait billions of years for things to evolve, suffer and die when he could have just created them the way we see them, he sets up the laws, of course!
No ones telling me how you can cram evolution into the Bible and have it make sense.
What else did he leave out? That the whole thing is a metaphor? That hes just kidding about the whole
thing?
Where's the imperfect reading? its very specific. Creation doesnt leave things up to be misunderstood.
Why would God want to confuse us so much?
What other parts of the bible are just allegories?
Creation reads as a list of events. The story of Jesus reads much more like an allegory.
What's a reasonable understanding of creation that could account for it being a metaphor for evolution?
I could make the lyrics of a rap song into a metaphor for creation, but that doesnt mean it is.
It contradicts a reasonable interpretation of it, but not an unreasonable one.
"The fact that empirical evidence has shown Evolution to be true, a literal Genesis account impossible, and yet I still believe that God is real and that His Word is not a lie."
Why?
You have to postulate things that aren't even in the Bible,
nor is there any physical evdince for, for the bible to remain true?
What if your random guess is wrong?
And why should i assume its right?
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle , and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:26 And God said, Let make man in our image, after likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Those are 3 verses of about 15 that deal with creation of life and my creation story shines more light on reality in 2 sentences. And the Bible is much more specific than I was.
B/c Jesus himself used metaphors, similes, parables, and etc."The fact that empirical evidence has shown Evolution to be true, a literal Genesis account impossible, and yet I still believe that God is real and that His Word is not a lie."
Why?
You have to postulate things that aren't even in the Bible, nor is there any physical evdince for, for the bible to remain true? What if your random guess is wrong?
And why should i assume its right?
"No, because the Genesis account doesn't even approach being that specific"
Gen 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Those are 3 verses of about 15 that deal with creation of life and my creation story shines more light on reality in 2 sentences. And the Bible is much more specific than I was.
Did you read my post concerning the symbolism in Revelation and how specific the book is, yet people don't take that literally?Im gonna go to bed and stop apparently bugging you guys.
I dont think it's wrong to think critically about the bible and if you cant accept a god because you dont see it, thats ok.
peace
Evolution tells us homosapien evolved 100-250k years ago and only 2k years ago did god make himself known. Where in the Bible does it say he came 100-250k years ago?
"Possibly its because humanity hadn't developed its cognitive abilities to the point where communication would be worthwhile."
According to evolution we had these abilities 100-250k years ago.
Where is the allegory in a list of things God did?
On the contrary, I understand evolution very, very well and i wasnt asking you to explain it. i was asking willitor - His sig implies a grave misunderstanding of what evolution says
Im still waiting for someone to tell me how the words of Genesis could be a metaphor for evolution
A line by line explanation through creation would be fanastic
How would you 'vaguely' explain evolution to people that don't know what genetics are?If he had vagely explained evolution we could look back now and say - How can you not believe in God? No one had any idea of evolution at the time, yet there it was - ready to be understood fully thousands of years later - circumstancial evidence for God's existance.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?