Need clarification, please

Levi44 said:

Thanks to a dear friend at CF, I have found the following;
ROM 6:1 "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

I believe we just cannot go on sinning over an over again. Hedi

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Hedi,
What do you think it would take to lose your salvtion? What sin would be the worst? How many times does it take to sin and have no salvation anymore?

GreenEyedLady said:

Hedi,
What do you think it would take to lose your salvtion?

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Turning you back totally on God. Knowing the truth, believeing and accepting it, living it, and abiding in it, then turning your back on God.

It is about having that life changing experience and walking with God and after a certain amount of time saying, you know what? God i know what you want, but I reject it, and you. Of course the cop out answer is to say that the person was never truly saved, but that is just what it is, a cop out.

JMHO

BT said:

... 1. Saved - freed from the penalty of sin
2. Sanctified - freed from the power of sin
3. Glorified - freed from the presence of sin (future event, after death/rapture)

...

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And through Jesus' shed blood ...
Justified.
Just if I'd never sinned

Uncle Bud said:

Turning you back totally on God. Knowing the truth, believeing and accepting it, living it, and abiding in it, then turning your back on God.

It is about having that life changing experience and walking with God and after a certain amount of time saying, you know what? God i know what you want, but I reject it, and you. Of course the cop out answer is to say that the person was never truly saved, but that is just what it is, a cop out.

JMHO

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So, if I am called to the mission field, and I reject that call, I lose my salvation?

What about if somthing horrible happens in my life, and I am really really mad at God for allowing it to happen to me. Out of pain, anger and histerics, I scream at him, yell at him, reject him and don't talk to him. At what point do I lose my salvation?

What about men and woman who are in the ministry who get tempted and committ adultery on thier spouse? At what point during that sin would they lose thier salvation?

BT explained it perfectly! The truth is, we cannot undo what the blood of Christ did. If we say that we can lose our salvation, then we HAVE to say that we are MORE powerful that HIS blood and that is just not possible.

Becauuuuuuuse.............
There;s POWER in the blood, POWER in the blood!
There is POWER, POWER wonder working POWER in the Blood of the LAAAAmb.

Uncle Bud said:

Turning you back totally on God. Knowing the truth, believeing and accepting it, living it, and abiding in it, then turning your back on God.

It is about having that life changing experience and walking with God and after a certain amount of time saying, you know what? God i know what you want, but I reject it, and you. Of course the cop out answer is to say that the person was never truly saved, but that is just what it is, a cop out.

JMHO

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This is a very interesting thread and I liked your comments. And I just don't know how a person could turn their back totally on God. It should be at the hardest times of our lives we should turn more fully towards Him. Hedi

Uncle Bud said:

Turning you back totally on God. Knowing the truth, believeing and accepting it, living it, and abiding in it, then turning your back on God.

It is about having that life changing experience and walking with God and after a certain amount of time saying, you know what? God i know what you want, but I reject it, and you. Of course the cop out answer is to say that the person was never truly saved, but that is just what it is, a cop out.

JMHO

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Like the prodigal son? The fact that you can lose your salvation is illustrated in the parable when the father disowns the son because the son rejected him.
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I know a lot of you are like, WHAT???? That's not in there!!!! And you're right, it's not in there. The fact is, if the son had died in the strange country, he still would have been a son. The nature of the father/son relationship NEVER changed, despite a COMPLETE rejection by the son. I would like someone who thinks it's possible for God to decide to kick you out of His family to explain to me why throughout the New Testament, God is the Father and we are the sons? Why use that familial description to describe the relationship, if it's so easily broken? I know that I as an earthly father, do not disown my kid when she tells me something like "I hate you." How much more loving and patient is our Heavenly Father?

Another pet peeve of mine, and I know it's already been addressed in the thread, is the absurd inference that God isn't able to save us without our helping Him out. Do they really think that God is that incompetent or impotent? That the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world wasn't adequate? Have these people ever read Hebrews? What about Galatians? Do they realize that Jesus paid the price for ALL sins? Do they realize the transactional nature of redemption? (Here is where I need to tell some people to read the Old Testament. Until you understand the picture of redemption God set up under the Law, you cannot fully understand the transaction that took place at the cross. When Jesus said "It is finished" He wasn't talking about His life. He was saying that the payment was complete!)

So that's some rambling. I apologize for not using precise scripture references, but there are some broad concepts that I'm surprised still need to be covered. The sheer volume of scripture that needs to be understood is actually overwhelming. Ruth is a quick read in formal redemption, but I'm not sure that is adequate if you don't know what you're reading about, you will most likely have to dig much deeper. Do you have any idea how many times God is referred to as the Father, and we as the sons, in the New Testament? So if you take issue with the familial description of our Father/son relationship with God, and you would like know where the Bible teaches it, then my suggestion is that you get off of the internet, and read the New Testament. All of it. Ok, I'm done. (for now)

novcncy said:

The nature of the father/son relationship NEVER changed, despite a COMPLETE rejection by the son. I would like someone who thinks it's possible for God to decide to kick you out of His family to explain to me why throughout the New Testament, God is the Father and we are the sons? Why use that familial description to describe the relationship, if it's so easily broken? I know that I as an earthly father, do not disown my kid when she tells me something like "I hate you." How much more loving and patient is our Heavenly Father?
)

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I amen! Very good biblical illustration!!

Quick note: Don't confuse "state" with "standing".

In Christ, my new man (the new creation DOES NOT SIN because he CANNOT SIN). In my flesh dwells no good thing and it can never please God no matter how righteous it tries to be or how many rituals I put it through. My standing in Christ is eternal. I am redeemed and sanctified FOREVER because His sacrifice was perfect on my behalf (Heb 10:10-14; etc.). My "state" at any given moment, however, will not always reflect my standing (Peter's denial or his error in Galatians 2, etc.).

In Adam I have a flesh that is cursed to die. That is my old nature. I can do nothing about it. It is decaying and it will die and go to the dust. Just as the potter does not "reform" the broken pot (he tosses it away), God is not interested in "reforming" our Adamic nature.

We must be "born again" by the Spirit and "become" children of God by an act of creation by God.

"That which is of the flesh is flesh, that which is of the spirit is spirit."

This is why Paul teaches that "in Christ" we are a "new creature." We have an eternal nature as opposed to our flesh which is not eternal (it is "mortal" and "corruptible").

bleechers said:

Quick note: Don't confuse "state" with "standing".

In Christ, my new man (the new creation DOES NOT SIN because he CANNOT SIN). In my flesh dwells no good thing and it can never please God no matter how righteous it tries to be or how many rituals I put it through. My standing in Christ is eternal. I am redeemed and sanctified FOREVER because His sacrifice was perfect on my behalf (Heb 10:10-14; etc.). My "state" at any given moment, however, will not always reflect my standing (Peter's denial or his error in Galatians 2, etc.).

In Adam I have a flesh that is cursed to die. That is my old nature. I can do nothing about it. It is decaying and it will die and go to the dust. Just as the potter does not "reform" the broken pot (he tosses it away), God is not interested in "reforming" our Adamic nature.

We must be "born again" by the Spirit and "become" children of God by an act of creation by God.

"That which is of the flesh is flesh, that which is of the spirit is spirit."

This is why Paul teaches that "in Christ" we are a "new creature." We have an eternal nature as opposed to our flesh which is not eternal (it is "mortal" and "corruptible").

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Amen!

bleechers said:

Quick note: Don't confuse "state" with "standing".

In Christ, my new man (the new creation DOES NOT SIN because he CANNOT SIN). In my flesh dwells no good thing and it can never please God no matter how righteous it tries to be or how many rituals I put it through. My standing in Christ is eternal. I am redeemed and sanctified FOREVER because His sacrifice was perfect on my behalf (Heb 10:10-14; etc.). My "state" at any given moment, however, will not always reflect my standing (Peter's denial or his error in Galatians 2, etc.).

In Adam I have a flesh that is cursed to die. That is my old nature. I can do nothing about it. It is decaying and it will die and go to the dust. Just as the potter does not "reform" the broken pot (he tosses it away), God is not interested in "reforming" our Adamic nature.

We must be "born again" by the Spirit and "become" children of God by an act of creation by God.

"That which is of the flesh is flesh, that which is of the spirit is spirit."

This is why Paul teaches that "in Christ" we are a "new creature." We have an eternal nature as opposed to our flesh which is not eternal (it is "mortal" and "corruptible").

Click to expand...

Well said!!!!