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Wiccan_Child

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1. What is "nature"?
Everything that could, in principle, be observed (directly or indirectly).

Everything that isn't natural, then, is completely and utterly unknowable. We can't infer anything about it, or even that it exists.

2. What is "natural" about "nature"?
What is watery about water?
What is sandy about sand?
What is electrical about electrons?

The word 'tautologous' comes to mind.
 
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Cleaver611

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No, I mean i'm not sure.
No, you do not know, you cannot know.
Their is a very compelling hypothesis about how life begin in the volcanic sea vents.
According to whom?
I know it because simply by virtue of being the best explanation.
Again, according to whom?
Unless you can offer a better explanation that doesn't contradict all the other areas of science, like say creationism.
Creation doesn't contradict any "areas of science" that I am aware of.
But about knowing... i cant KNOW that I am not the only self aware life form. Is that what you mean. If we really want to be stingy about the word know, one really doesn't know anything,...
And you would know that how?
... especially anything about God.
I disagree.
However their is very strong evidence evolution happened
Evidence for molecules to man evolution? There is none, and before you go citing sources to “scientific evidence” of (what evo fundies like to call) “microevolution”, don’t bother, I call it variation, it's scientific and contradicts nothing in scripture.
Would you have me believe that what we observe - variations - given enough time can take, for example, a cat and produce something other than a cat?
Here it is evos: If you want “proof” of evolution, the kind that would convince even the likes of me that our having evolved was a serious possibility, then you’re going to have to stop looking to the past and start looking to the future, cat to not a cat..... Lights! Camera! action!..... Film it..... How long do you think you will need?
...and explains the diversity of life. Their is no evidence for creationism.
The "evidence for creation" is universal.
 
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Cleaver611

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You demand justification for the existence of the universe, and yet you plead for a special exception in your justification? Epic fail.
A naturalistic explanation for the origin of nature is what I was looking for. That you lot haven't got one is your problem not mine. and where did I "plead for a special exception"?
If you're going to stop asking questions, why not stop at "the universe exists?"
I like asking questions.
 
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Cleaver611

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Is this what atheists believe?
 
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Lord Emsworth

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Is this what atheists believe?

Yes, and no. No, because atheism is strictly speaking only about believing in "God." Yes, because, well, something like the part you bolded is indeed what many atheists believe. (And not, for example, something coming out of nothing, or other popular theist misconceptions.) I think it is best understood as some sort of transcendence, i.e. the universe is eternal in that it exists outside of time. (YMMV)
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Is this what atheists believe?
Some do. Some don't. Atheism is not a position on the origin of the universe, so there is no reason to think there is a unanimous opinion. It is nonbelief in the existence of deities, nothing more.
 
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Split Rock

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1. What is "nature"?
2. What is "natural" about "nature"?

1. What is the "supernatural"
2. What is "super" about the "supernaural?"
3. What is "God?"
4. What is "godly" about "god?"
5. What is "is?"
6. What is "what is is?"
 
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gaara4158

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A naturalistic explanation for the origin of nature is what I was looking for. That you lot haven't got one is your problem not mine. and where did I "plead for a special exception"?I like asking questions.
Apparently not enough to question where God came from...
 
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UncleHermit

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So you accept evidence of "variation", but not evolution? What is the difference? Also, what are "evo fundies"?


Would you have me believe that what we observe - variations - given enough time can take, for example, a cat and produce something other than a cat?

No.


Why would that prove evolution to you?
 
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Lord Emsworth

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You need to watch out that you are not asking for something that is not being claimed.



The "evidence for creation" is universal.

What do you even mean by "creation?" OTOH, sure, just going about and slapping the label "creation" onto stuff is easy. But essentially meaningless.

AND ... you might want to take AVs "Apple Challenge" if you hold to "ex nihilo creation." You must've seen the thread.
 
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sbvera13

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Creation doesn't contradict any "areas of science" that I am aware of.
Yes it does. Specifically, young earth creationism denies all or part of:
Geology
-including Plate Tectonnics
Astronomy
Mathematics
Meteorology
Biology
Genetics
Paleontology
Botany
Geography
Physics
-including Atomic Physics
-including Electronics and Electricity
Taxonomy
Linguistics
Sociology
Pharmacology
Archaeology
And not to be left out, the written record of history
I'm sure I've missed some, as well.

I will happily explain the presence any given category upon request.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Could you explain how YEC denies mathematics, sociology, pharmacology, and electronics? I can see how the others must be denied, but not these four.

Thanks .
 
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Split Rock

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Could you explain how YEC denies mathematics,
I suspect that refers to the "pi" agrument. The bible seems to imply that pi = 3.

sociology,
Probably that man can only be moral with threat of damnation from God.

pharmacology,
Well... that one is based on medical knowledge, and the Bible says that thought and emotion occurs in the heart, rather than the brain. Not sure if that is what sbvera13 was referring to, though.

and electronics? I can see how the others must be denied, but not these four.

Ahhh...Because Jesus causes electrons to move inside those wires!
 
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