My take on penal substitution

tonychanyt · Apr 3, 2024

The term penal substitution is not found in the Bible. When it comes to doctrine, I rather stick to terms in the Bible.

Isa 53:

4Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. 5But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. 6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

2 Corinthians 5:

21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Rom 3:

21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

More simply, John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Christ physically died for us so that we don't have to die eternally.

There is no need to overgeneralize the above concepts to create a doctrine of penal substitution. Just stick to the words in the Bible.

Some would say that Christ was God, therefore his limited punishment was of infinite value to the Father. But if that is so, why was not a much lesser punishment enough? An insignificant amount of suffering would suffice if multiplied infinitely.

Right, let's take this logic to the extreme: a tiny scratch on Jesus' skin should suffice to save everyone universally. Well, that's human logic, not God's.

The reality was different. Jesus sweated blood at Gethsemane out of anguish. The most painful moment of Jesus' life was in Matthew 27:

46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

That was God's logic, God's wisdom.

Grip Docility · Apr 23, 2024

tonychanyt said:
The term penal substitution is not found in the Bible. When it comes to doctrine, I rather stick to terms in the Bible.

Isa 53:

2 Corinthians 5:

Rom 3:

More simply, John 3:

Christ physically died for us so that we don't have to die eternally.

There is no need to overgeneralize the above concepts to create a doctrine of penal substitution. Just stick to the words in the Bible.

Right, let's take this logic to the extreme: a tiny scratch on Jesus' skin should suffice to save everyone universally. Well, that's human logic, not God's.

The reality was different. Jesus sweated blood at Gethsemane out of anguish. The most painful moment of Jesus' life was in Matthew 27:

That was God's logic, God's wisdom.

I’m enjoying the fact that you stick to understanding scripture with scripture! And… facilitate much valuable discussion!

My take on penal substitution

tonychanyt

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Grip Docility

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My take on penal substitution

tonychanyt

24/7 Christian

Grip Docility

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