My Next Apple Challenge

TLK Valentine · Jul 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
That doesn't mean they have to demand evidence for something that didn't generate any.

They don't -- hence all the churches.

VirOptimus · Jul 27, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Depends on what you consider non evidence, doesn't it?

How many churches do you pass on the way to work?

One, its converted to be used by a telemarketing firm as there wasnt enough members. Christianity is declining here.

But churches and christians isnt evidence for anything more then that there are belivers.

joshua 1 9 · Jul 27, 2016

Loudmouth said:
I have scientific conclusions backed by evidence, not opinions.

You have nothing that you have ever shown me in the way of evidence. I am still looking for any scientific evidence that can show the Bible is not 100% accurate and true. It does not matter if you or me or anyone understand the Bible or knows how to interpret the Bible. This only has to do with how accurate the Bible is. God is always true, God is always Justified and you have nothing to show otherwise. God created this world and He is the one that will Judge this world. God is a God of absolute Justice and Righteousness in all that He does. In fact that is why Jesus had to die on the cross. God is always true and He can not ever contradict Himself.

"God be true, and every man a liar, as it has been written: "That You may be justified in Your words, and will prevail in Your being judged."" Rom 3:4

bhsmte · Jul 27, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
You have nothing that you have ever shown me in the way of evidence. I am still looking for any scientific evidence that can show the Bible is not 100% accurate and true. It does not matter if you or me or anyone understand the Bible or knows how to interpret the Bible. This only has to do with how accurate the Bible is. God is always true, God is always Justified and you have nothing to show otherwise. God created this world and He is the one that will Judge this world. God is a God of absolute Justice and Righteousness in all that He does. In fact that is why Jesus had to die on the cross. God is always true and He can not ever contradict Himself.

"God be true, and every man a liar, as it has been written: "That You may be justified in Your words, and will prevail in Your being judged."" Rom 3:4

Where is your scientific evidence, that disproves that i was visited by aliens last night and they confirmed there is no god and aliens created this universe?

joshua 1 9 · Jul 27, 2016

TLK Valentine said:
They don't -- hence all the churches.

There are 7 churches in the Book of Revolution and all the churches today represent one of those 7. Of course there is a dead, harlot, apostate, counterfeit church filled with reprobates. Jesus clearly teaches that we are to let the wheat and the tares grow together. The angel at the end of the age will separate them.

13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this *. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up ?
13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

joshua 1 9 · Jul 27, 2016

bhsmte said:
Where is your scientific evidence, that disproves that i was visited by aliens last night and they confirmed there is no god and aliens created this universe?

What does this have to do with anything? The Bible is 100% accurate and true. Do you have any evidence at all that can show that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true?

TLK Valentine · Jul 27, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
There are 7 churches in the Book of Revolution and all the churches today represent one of those 7. Of course there is a dead, harlot, apostate, counterfeit church filled with reprobates. Jesus clearly teaches that we are to let the wheat and the tares grow together. The angel at the end of the age will separate them.

Then by all means -- continue to do nothing.

From each according to his ability, and all that...

pgp_protector · Jul 27, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
What does this have to do with anything? The Bible is 100% accurate and true. Do you have any evidence at all that can show that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true?

31 Another parable he put before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field; 32 it is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.”

http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-tree-and-vs-plant/

AV1611VET · Jul 27, 2016

pgp_protector said:
31 Another parable he put before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field; 32 it is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.”

No, It doesn't say that.

Try it again with a real Bible.

Loudmouth · Jul 27, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Wrong thread.

Right thread.

You tell me how it points to creatio ex nihilo or explain why you can't.

It doesn't point to creation ex nihilo 6,000 years ago. The evidence points to at least 13 billion years of history.

pgp_protector · Jul 27, 2016

AV1611VET said:
No, It doesn't say that.

Try it again with a real Bible.

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

New International Version
Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches."

New Living Translation
It is the smallest of all seeds, but it becomes the largest of garden plants; it grows into a tree, and birds come and make nests in its branches."

English Standard Version
It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.”

Berean Study Bible
Although it is the smallest of all seeds, yet it grows into the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches."

Berean Literal Bible
which indeed is smallest of all the seeds; but when it is grown, it is greater than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and encamp in its branches."

New American Standard Bible
and this is smaller than all other seeds, but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that THE BIRDS OF THE AIR come and NEST IN ITS BRANCHES."

King James Bible
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
It's the smallest of all the seeds, but when grown, it's taller than the vegetables and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the sky come and nest in its branches."

International Standard Version
Although it is the smallest of all seeds, when it is fully grown it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, and the birds in the sky come and nest in its branches."

NET Bible
It is the smallest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest garden plant and becomes a tree, so that the wild birds come and nest in its branches."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And this is the smallest of all seeds, but whenever it has grown, it is greatest of all small herbs and it becomes a tree so that a bird of the sky may come settle in its branches.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
It's one of the smallest seeds. However, when it has grown, it is taller than the garden plants. It becomes a tree that is large enough for birds to nest in its branches."

New American Standard 1977
and this is smaller than all other seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that THE BIRDS OF THE AIR come and NEST IN ITS BRANCHES.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
which indeed is the smallest of all the seeds, but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and make their nests in its branches.

King James 2000 Bible
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

American King James Version
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

American Standard Version
which indeed is less than all seeds; but when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Which is the least indeed of all seeds; but when it is grown up, it is greater than all herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come, and dwell in the branches thereof.

Darby Bible Translation
which is less indeed than all seeds, but when it is grown is greater than herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and roost in its branches.

English Revised Version
which indeed is less than all seeds; but when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Webster's Bible Translation
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge on its branches.

Weymouth New Testament
It is the smallest of all seeds, and yet when full-grown it is larger than any herb and forms a tree, so that the birds come and build in its branches."

World English Bible
which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches."

Young's Literal Translation
which less, indeed, is than all the seeds, but when it may be grown, is greatest of the herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the heaven do come and rest in its branches.'

Loudmouth · Jul 27, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
You have nothing that you have ever shown me in the way of evidence.

Here it is:

Creationists have claimed that Macroevolution is not testable. They couldn't be farther from the truth. Here is the test for macroevolution as described clear back in 1965 before we had any real DNA sequence data:

"It will be determined to what extent the phylogenetic tree, as derived from molecular data in complete independence from the results of organismal biology, coincides with the phylogenetic tree constructed on the basis of organismal biology. If the two phylogenetic trees are mostly in agreement with respect to the topology of branching, the best available single proof of the reality of macro-evolution would be furnished. Indeed, only the theory of evolution, combined with the realization that events at any supramolecular level are consistent with molecular events, could reasonably account for such a congruence between lines of evidence obtained independently, namely amino acid sequences of homologous polypeptide chains on the one hand, and the finds of organismal taxonomy and paleontology on the other hand. Besides offering an intellectual satisfaction to some, the advertising of such evidence would of course amount to beating a dead horse. Some beating of dead horses may be ethical, when here and there they display unexpected twitches that look like life."

Emile Zuckerkandl and Linus Pauling, discussing the possibility of the twin nested hierarchy before the first molecular phylogenies had been made.
(1965) "Evolutionary Divergence and Convergence in Proteins." in Evolving Genes and Proteins, p. 101.

In short, it was predicted 50 years ago that there should be a match between independent DNA based trees and morphological trees.

So does macroevolution pass that test? Yep, sure does:

"So, how well do phylogenetic trees from morphological studies match the trees made from independent molecular studies? There are over 10^38 different possible ways to arrange the 30 major taxa represented in Figure 1 into a phylogenetic tree . . . In spite of these odds, the relationships given in Figure 1, as determined from morphological characters, are completely congruent with the relationships determined independently from cytochrome c molecular studies . . . Speaking quantitatively, independent morphological and molecular measurements such as these have determined the standard phylogenetic tree, as shown in Figure 1, to better than 38 decimal places. This phenomenal corroboration of universal common descent is referred to as the "twin nested hierarchy". This term is something of a misnomer, however, since there are in reality multiple nested hierarchies, independently determined from many sources of data."
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#independent_convergence

For 30 groups there are 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 possible ways to organize them into a tree. There is just 1 tree out of those billions and billions of possible trees that is a perfect match to the predictions made the theory of macroevolution. We see that exact tree.

That is proof beyond any reasonable doubt.

I am still looking for any scientific evidence that can show the Bible is not 100% accurate and true.

The burden of proof lies with those who claim it is 100% accurate.

AV1611VET · Jul 27, 2016

pgp_protector said:
31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

New International Version
Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches."

New Living Translation
It is the smallest of all seeds, but it becomes the largest of garden plants; it grows into a tree, and birds come and make nests in its branches."

English Standard Version
It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.”

Berean Study Bible
Although it is the smallest of all seeds, yet it grows into the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches."

Berean Literal Bible
which indeed is smallest of all the seeds; but when it is grown, it is greater than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and encamp in its branches."

New American Standard Bible
and this is smaller than all other seeds, but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that THE BIRDS OF THE AIR come and NEST IN ITS BRANCHES."

King James Bible
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
It's the smallest of all the seeds, but when grown, it's taller than the vegetables and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the sky come and nest in its branches."

International Standard Version
Although it is the smallest of all seeds, when it is fully grown it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, and the birds in the sky come and nest in its branches."

NET Bible
It is the smallest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest garden plant and becomes a tree, so that the wild birds come and nest in its branches."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And this is the smallest of all seeds, but whenever it has grown, it is greatest of all small herbs and it becomes a tree so that a bird of the sky may come settle in its branches.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
It's one of the smallest seeds. However, when it has grown, it is taller than the garden plants. It becomes a tree that is large enough for birds to nest in its branches."

New American Standard 1977
and this is smaller than all other seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that THE BIRDS OF THE AIR come and NEST IN ITS BRANCHES.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
which indeed is the smallest of all the seeds, but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and make their nests in its branches.

King James 2000 Bible
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

American King James Version
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

American Standard Version
which indeed is less than all seeds; but when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Which is the least indeed of all seeds; but when it is grown up, it is greater than all herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come, and dwell in the branches thereof.

Darby Bible Translation
which is less indeed than all seeds, but when it is grown is greater than herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and roost in its branches.

English Revised Version
which indeed is less than all seeds; but when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Webster's Bible Translation
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge on its branches.

Weymouth New Testament
It is the smallest of all seeds, and yet when full-grown it is larger than any herb and forms a tree, so that the birds come and build in its branches."

World English Bible
which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches."

Young's Literal Translation
which less, indeed, is than all the seeds, but when it may be grown, is greatest of the herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the heaven do come and rest in its branches.'

Can't find Waldo, can you?

But you liked that size comparison you posted, didn't you?

Who cares if it's wrong, as long as it's on your side, eh?

46AND2 · Jul 27, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
What does this have to do with anything? The Bible is 100% accurate and true. Do you have any evidence at all that can show that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true?

What would it matter? You would simply hand-wave it away, completely ignore it, or most likely change the subject entirely.

TLK Valentine · Jul 27, 2016

Now, now -- let's not let this tangent distract us from what's important: that this "challenge" is invalid on its face.

God cannot make an iPad -- ex nihilo or otherwise -- because by definition, iPads are made by the Apple company.

The best anyone else -- even God -- could do is make an iPad knockoff. If said knockoff purports to be the genuine article, then it's a counterfeit.

Now, it's entirely possible for God to create a counterfeit iPad -- ex nihilo -- that is utterly indistinguishable from the real thing, with zero evidence.

But a counterfeit -- even a perfect one -- is still a counterfeit.

Now, if AV was able/willing to acknowledge that, we could continue to how this utterly demolishes "embedded age" once and for all.

Personally, I'm not holding my breath.

joshua 1 9 · Jul 27, 2016

46AND2 said:
What would it matter? You would simply hand-wave it away, completely ignore it, or most likely change the subject entirely.

It is a mute point sense no one has come up with anything to disprove the Bible. First they would have to put some effort into the attempt and they are simply not willing to do that. Next they would have to produce something more than a strawman. Third they would have to demonstrate that they know what the truth is.

joshua 1 9 · Jul 27, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Can't find Waldo, can you?

But you liked that size comparison you posted, didn't you?

Who cares if it's wrong, as long as it's on your side, eh?

Is he lost?

joshua 1 9 · Jul 27, 2016

Loudmouth said:
Creationists have claimed that Macroevolution is not testable.

What does this have to do with the Bible? Absolutely nothing.

Loudmouth · Jul 27, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
What does this have to do with the Bible? Absolutely nothing.

You asked for evidence, and I gave you that evidence. As predicted, you just ignore it.

Bugeyedcreepy · Jul 27, 2016

AV1611VET said:
People laughed at Jesus too and we're just as wrong. Would I be correct then, if I assumed you're still investigating how we got our moon?

Not really, I can accept the general Scientific consensus - primarily because to me personally, the Moon doesn't expect me to pray to it on particular days in particu;ar ways, and therefore the exact method it came to be is for the most part, inconsequential.

Or are you satisfied with calling consensus of opinion "reality" in this case?We can't see gravity, yet we know it exists by observing its effects.

Correction, We observe these effects and label them with the phenomenon 'Gravity'. Likewise though, I don't have some guy(or gal) purporting to speak for Gravity, insisting I give a percentile of my wage to him in order to promote the Truth of Gravity - Likewise, I'm not asked to pray to it on certain days, in certain ways lest I suffer an excruciating afterlife being perpetually torn apart in a time dilated center of a black hole....

Are you turning your back on God because you can't see: time divided into BC/AD, Christian holidays, iconography, edifices, music, debates, and literature as evidence?

I'm still not convinced there is a God or Gods, let alone which one is most likely... Cultural influence of Christianity is one thing, but suppose you were born in the Middle East? Your Calendar would be different depending on your religion, which would be incredibly likely to be Islam, you'd be surrounded by all Islamic holidays, iconography, edifices, music, debates, and literature. Same thing if you were born in India and Hindu/Sihk was your religion. Anyhoo, Given Islam largely controls the Holy lands & cradle of Christianity, perhaps you should pause a moment and wonder why your version of God would allow Islam( and a little Judaism) to take root over Christianity in these holy lands if your religion was the right one?

It sounds to me like you pick and choose what is real and what isn't.

Can you pick & choose to believe in Gravity? If you think belief is a choice, I implore you to take up my belief challenge - Go to the top of a Skyscraper, choose to believe Gravity doesn't apply to you & step off the building.

My Next Apple Challenge

I've already read the books you want burned.

A nihilist who cares.

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I've already read the books you want burned.

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SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

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SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

I've already read the books you want burned.

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