My Journey From Being an Atheist to an Agnostic to an Calvinist Christian

Paradoxum said:

You don't actually explain why you became a Christian. What convinced you?

I'd say it's more reasonable to not believe in God, since there's no reason to believe in God. A lack of belief in God is atheism.

(I used to be a committed Christian, then became atheist).

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What made you change from one to the other?

How is any of this Philosophy?

Kim Kardashian is not philosophy.

Kim Kardashian is an example of immoral philosophy, perhaps. As in, the categorical morals and principles in which she defies, or adheres to (namely in terms of popular culture.)

Gladius said:

Kim Kardashian is not philosophy.

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KimKierkegaardashian is, however.

Archaeopteryx said:

KimKierkegaardashian is, however.

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You, sir, are hilarious!

dhh712 said:

I don't intend to denigrate or condescend, just state a fact (or what is a fact to my worldview--am aware that the unbeliever would not consider it a fact). People who are not regenerated are worldly, they are of the world; there is no getting around it. I don't mean to be harsh or rude or condescending or anything negative, however I do not soften what is a fact but state it as it is known to me.

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I too am curious about the way you're using the term "worldly." Even though you described worldly as "of the world" I don't really think that's what you mean. After all, aren't we all of this world? What other world could you possibly be from?

I also find it odd that you realize the way you're using the term is condescending and patronizing...yet you continued to use it that way regardless. If you know the term is condescending, and you use it in a condescending manner, what good is it to say, "I don't mean to be condescending." Isn't that a bit hypocritical? I understand that you consider it a fact...but if you think about it, wouldn't the word "belief" fit better there? Worldviews wouldn't change a fact if it's a fact....beliefs can differ between worldviews though.

Let me give you a hypothetical example and tell me what you think. Keep in mind, this is purely hypothetical...not my actual opinion...but imagine if I said this to you...

"I don't mean to sound patronizing or condescending, I'm just giving you the facts as I see them. People who believe in the god of their religion have been brainwashed...there's no avoiding that conclusion. I'm not trying to sound mean or insulting in any way, I'm just a straight shooter giving you the facts and I don't soften the truth just to make it easier for people."

Now, even though I said I wasn't trying to be condescending or insulting...it kinda sounded like being insulting was exactly what I was trying to do, didn't it?

Of course, I could be wrong and "worldly" could just be some compliment for atheists I've never heard of. The context in which you use "worldly" doesn't give the impression it's meant as a compliment though.

dhh712 said:

Not at all. You are right, it could be just a feeling; I nor anyone else will ever know in this life. That is where trust in God comes in. There is no justifiable foundation for belief (or faith in God) that can come from some objective reason (though maybe a Christian apologetic can come up with one; I certainly don't know of any except my subjective ones)--the only foundation for belief is faith which God sustains. It may very well be that during some time He will not sustain mine for whatever reason. None of us will never know that unless the time comes.

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Well if it could just be feelings, why believe in God?

I don't intend to denigrate or condescend, just state a fact (or what is a fact to my worldview--am aware that the unbeliever would not consider it a fact). People who are not regenerated are worldly, they are of the world; there is no getting around it. I don't mean to be harsh or rude or condescending or anything negative, however I do not soften what is a fact but state it as it is known to me.

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Well we are worldly as much as you are worldly... we are both in the world.

Why do you think it's a fact?

My background is too rooted in science to not understand that non-religious psychology can give a person the same feelings as someone who has had an actual experience with God. I have thought it through completely.

I believe in God because He gave me that ability. I believe upon God because I trust in Him.

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If you know it could be psychology, why think it is God then? Just because you want to believe n God?

I hope you don't mind me asking. I always feel a little bad questioning someone's faith, if they seem to like their faith alot. I know it hurts to lose it.

now faith said:

What made you change from one to the other?

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Well, I suppose I wanted to make sure my belief, and reasons for those beliefs, were reasonable. But I then found the reasons I had for believing in God seemed more and more shaky. There's no justifiable reason to believe, and the reasons to believe in God don't stand up.

If you wanna know more you can ask.

Paradoxum said:

Well if it could just be feelings, why believe in God?



Well we are worldly as much as you are worldly... we are both in the world.

Why do you think it's a fact?



If you know it could be psychology, why think it is God then? Just because you want to believe n God?

I hope you don't mind me asking. I always feel a little bad questioning someone's faith, if they seem to like their faith alot. I know it hurts to lose it.



Well, I suppose I wanted to make sure my belief, and reasons for those beliefs, were reasonable. But I then found the reasons I had for believing in God seemed more and more shaky. There's no justifiable reason to believe, and the reasons to believe in God don't stand up.

If you wanna know more you can ask.

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No but it brings out a debate among Christians ,with your change being case and point.

The debate is once in Grace always in Grace or termed eternal security.
Some say it is impossible to turn away from God after they have accepted Christ.
Others say you can deny him and a person would be denied the opportunity to repent and suffer Hell.
Others state that such a person never knew the love of Christ to begin with and did not attain
Salvation.
If you consider your position to mirror these circumstances which one would it fall under ?
Presuming any are the reason

Ok, so I feel like people are focusing on this worldly point too much.

So in the bible it comes up a few times, let me try explain my understanding of it.

Bible tells us to be physically in the world, as yes you and I are both physically standing on the earth and a member of society etc. It asks us NOT to conform to the worldly values or focus on things here on earth.

I believe that is what is trying to be said here. Christians are not focusing on the needs and wants of our life here on earth, but rather of the desires of God. Our focus is on God not on our "worldly" lives.

now faith said:

No but it brings out a debate among Christians ,with your change being case and point.

The debate is once in Grace always in Grace or termed eternal security.
Some say it is impossible to turn away from God after they have accepted Christ.
Others say you can deny him and a person would be denied the opportunity to repent and suffer Hell.
Others state that such a person never knew the love of Christ to begin with and did not attain
Salvation.
If you consider your position to mirror these circumstances which one would it fall under ?
Presuming any are the reason

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Well I had faith as much as anyone else, so if I never had faith, then no average Christian has saving faith.

So if I had to pick one of the above, I'd say, 'Others say you can deny him and a person would be denied the opportunity to repent and suffer Hell.'

In my opinion, anyone who thinks 'someone can't genuinely lose faith' is narrow minded and can't handle reality. It literally happens.

My opinion as a Christian was that Christians could lose faith, and could come back at any time. I'd say that is the most reasonable position.

I'm confused about how a person based their worldview on logic, but then chose Christianity out of emotions. Why on earth would you go from "agnosticism is most logical" to "I believe an ancient Canaanite god loves me, killed himself, became a zombie, wants me to telepathically accept him so that my ghost can inhabit a new body in another world, and thus help me avoid his setting me on fire for billions of years in response to an evil inside of me inherited by a rib-woman being tricked by a talking snake into eating a magic fruit"???

In my opinion, anyone who thinks 'someone can't genuinely lose faith' is narrow minded and can't handle reality. It literally happens.

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2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Romans 8:28 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose.

I think there is a difference in losing faith and losing salvation. Our faith is something that that we hold in our minds but our salvation is something that we hold in our spirits. Once a person truly becomes a Christian through faith, their spirit is literally altered and they now have the spirit of God. Thats why Christ came, to give us his spirit. He simply gives you his life when you decide to give him yours. After the is birth of the Spirit we then go through the process of sanctification (being conformed to the image of Christ). We may go through long periods of doubts and even walk away from Christianity during this process but once you take on the Spirit of Christ he can't be removed. Its a done deal. Bring on the arguments lol

Faith Unites said:

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Romans 8:28 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose.

I think there is a difference in losing faith and losing salvation. Our faith is something that that we hold in our minds but our salvation is something that we hold in our spirits. Once a person truly becomes a Christian through faith, their spirit is literally altered and they now have the spirit of God. Thats why Christ came, to give us his spirit. He simply gives you his life when you decide to give him yours. After the is birth of the Spirit we then go through the process of sanctification (being conformed to the image of Christ). We may go through long periods of doubts and even walk away from Christianity during this process but once you take on the Spirit of Christ he can't be removed. Its a done deal. Bring on the arguments lol

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Clergy Project

Faith Unites said:

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Romans 8:28 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose.

I think there is a difference in losing faith and losing salvation. Our faith is something that that we hold in our minds but our salvation is something that we hold in our spirits. Once a person truly becomes a Christian through faith, their spirit is literally altered and they now have the spirit of God. Thats why Christ came, to give us his spirit. He simply gives you his life when you decide to give him yours. After the is birth of the Spirit we then go through the process of sanctification (being conformed to the image of Christ). We may go through long periods of doubts and even walk away from Christianity during this process but once you take on the Spirit of Christ he can't be removed. Its a done deal. Bring on the arguments lol

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Well if you say so. Apparently I'm still saved, and I'm okay with that.

ObamaChristian said:

Anyone here started off as a atheist and progressed towards being a believer?
Care to share?

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I'll share my testimony. I think that deep down, I've always been an atheist. I had the usual religious exposure as a child (though it wasn't a major emphasis in my family.) But I realize that I never developed the kind of deeply internalized faith than characterizes sincere religious believers.

But that being said, I consider myself a Calvinist atheist. (How's that for a contradiction?) If there really is a sovereign God, then he's already decided if I will ever become a believer. And if he has, then he will arrange events so that it eventually happens. Irresistable grace, right? How could I not believe? And if I die an atheist, then obviously it was never meant to be. This is the only logical conclusion if God is truly sovereign. So for now, I have to be honest. How would it please God if I claimed to believe, but really had overwhelming doubts? Everything I can observe, or have studied about the universe convinces me that it is totally a function of matter/energy and the fundamental forces of nature. The concept of any kind of omnipotent, omni-intelligent, supernatural god existing in some realm outside the natural universe is purely a product of the human imagination. But if such an entity really does exist, and it has the intent to do so, then it will convince me otherwise.

Faith Unites said:

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Romans 8:28 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose.

I think there is a difference in losing faith and losing salvation. Our faith is something that that we hold in our minds but our salvation is something that we hold in our spirits. Once a person truly becomes a Christian through faith, their spirit is literally altered and they now have the spirit of God. Thats why Christ came, to give us his spirit. He simply gives you his life when you decide to give him yours. After the is birth of the Spirit we then go through the process of sanctification (being conformed to the image of Christ). We may go through long periods of doubts and even walk away from Christianity during this process but once you take on the Spirit of Christ he can't be removed. Its a done deal. Bring on the arguments lol

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Are you familiar with true and false conversion?

Ana the Ist said:

I too am curious about the way you're using the term "worldly." Even though you described worldly as "of the world" I don't really think that's what you mean. After all, aren't we all of this world? What other world could you possibly be from?

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I have been reborn again in the spirit from God. I was once of this world, now I am of God, though I still live in the world. Those who have not been regenerated yet can only be of this world because they are dead in the spirit; they have no spiritual life because one cannot have any until God gives their spirit life again. That is the only way I am using the word worldly in my letters here.

I don't mean for it to be a negative thing to all people; it is probably more negative from my perspective than it should be, and that is probably because I have a lingering resentment from having bought into all the worldly--again, meaning from people who have not been regenerated by God---propaganda all my life; I shouldn't feel this way though, because it was what God has ordained for me, to have been lost all these years and then found by Him while in the middle-years of my life. I just can't help resenting it because I have a natural tendency to think of how different my life could and probably would have been if God had found me earlier. By that though, I am resenting the will of God; I'm getting better at not resenting it (as at first, when God first intervened in my life, I had a real bad close-to-hatred, if not actual hatred, of "worldly" things) yet I have to learn to accept what God has ordained for me even though it may not be what I have wanted.

I trust that the Lord knows I am encased in this weak, weak flesh and that He will be merciful to me in this lingering resentment. I must focus on the joy it is of knowing Him now, and how amazing it is that He would be so merciful to a great sinner such as I was, and am (I have a lot of problems with wanting my life to have been a certain way, so the worldly stuff is just some of it; it's difficult to be so full of sin even now when the Lord had intervened to establish a relationship with me).

I said that I don't mean for it to be a negative thing, though I can't help but see if from a negative view (the statement of being worldly) because of where I am now, resting in Christ. It seems that people who do not know the Lord, however, shouldn't automatically assume it to be negative for they by their own testament claim that He doesn't exist (or that they aren't sure or something like that--either way, they still don't know Him, so how can they possibly see worldly as being negative in a way that a Christian sees it as negative? I can't understand that).

I maintain that I do not use the term condescendingly or in a denigrating way (apparently it appears that I do; that is not intentional). It is a fact to me; it is factual from my worldview or what I have been given to understand of the world and of God by God. So I can't not use the term worldly to describe those who do not know God for it is rooted into my understanding of the world and of God.

Ana the Ist said:

Let me give you a hypothetical example and tell me what you think. Keep in mind, this is purely hypothetical...not my actual opinion...but imagine if I said this to you...

"I don't mean to sound patronizing or condescending, I'm just giving you the facts as I see them. People who believe in the god of their religion have been brainwashed...there's no avoiding that conclusion. I'm not trying to sound mean or insulting in any way, I'm just a straight shooter giving you the facts and I don't soften the truth just to make it easier for people."

Now, even though I said I wasn't trying to be condescending or insulting...it kinda sounded like being insulting was exactly what I was trying to do, didn't it?

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Your example to me sounds like you are merely stating facts as you understand them, and I would not infer from this that you are being condescending or denigrating. Reading such a thing on a message board, I don't think I would have come to the conclusion that you were trying to be insulting; however, a lot of what is said and the meaning taken from it (especially if it is a meaning that is not stated explicitly in the words themselves, but is instead something underlying), often cannot be detected merely from the words but in the way a person says the words. The paragraph you wrote could have been said in an insulting tone and then would and should have been understood that way; on the other hand, it could have been stated matter-of-factly, as in this is the conclusion that you have arrived at after much speculation.

Another thing to consider is can what is being stated be taken in a negative or insulting way? I suppose that brain-washed could be taken as negative, and often is, though it depends on what someone means by being brain-washed. In my letter, my statement of "worldly" simply meant those who do not know God. I guess worldly could have other meanings such as those who are all caught up in materialism and only have interests that are rooted in what they can buy. I did not mean worldly in this way in the slightest (though I imagine a lot of people who do not know God are this way; yet a lot of people who do not know God are also very frugal and wouldn't be considered materialistic in the slightest. I imagine there are lots of people who do not know God who would be considered very anti-worldly based on this definition of worldly).

I would imagine it is difficult for a non-believer to understand the mindset of a believer, so I appreciate your asking about some things if they don't make sense.