My high standards for music

LilLamb219 · Jun 9, 2011

I am now the choir director for both choirs at my church and recently a friend helped me in inventorying all of the music.

As I go through some of our choir music, I have found that I really have high standards for what I want the choir to sing. Am I being too picky?

I don't want a song that can be sung to just any god.

I don't want a lot of repititious fluff.

If it speaks of the Gospel, I want to know what that Gospel is.

I don't want it all Law, all ME.

I'm finding that a lot of publishers outside of the Lutheran ones are not living up to my standards. Concordia and Augsburg pretty much get it right.

LutheranChick · Jun 9, 2011

I don't think you are being too picky at all. It's a church choir, and proper music should be sung.

Studeclunker · Jun 9, 2011

Sounds good to me!

The only complaint I have in our Church is that the Pastor's wife rarely uses songs outside a very limited range. We almost never hear Amazing Grace, How Great Thou Art, Blessed Assurance, All is Well With My Soul, etc... She is determined that we hear only the Rock-Ribbed WELS selections. Whilst that's okay, I'm not familliar with them and I've noticed that the rest of the congregation stumbles and fumbles on them occasionally as well. She and Pastor can come up with some really obscure ones, LOL! All the same, I'd rather that than hearing Calvary Chapel stuff like they did at the LCMS congregation I came from.

It was like going to a particularly vacuous VBS that never seemed to end.

So, go for it, Lambie! You keep right on with it.

Just please don't forget the old (more commonly known) favourites, okay?

goldbeach · Jun 9, 2011

Studeclunker said:
Sounds good to me!

The only complaint I have in our Church is that the Pastor's wife rarely uses songs outside a very limited range. We almost never hear Amazing Grace, How Great Thou Art, Blessed Assurance, All is Well With My Soul, etc... She is determined that we hear only the Rock-Ribbed WELS selections. Whilst that's okay, I'm not familliar with them and I've noticed that the rest of the congregation stumbles and fumbles on them occasionally as well. She and Pastor can come up with some really obscure ones, LOL! All the same, I'd rather that than hearing Calvary Chapel stuff like they did at the LCMS congregation I came from.

It was like going to a particularly vacuous VBS that never seemed to end.

So, go for it, Lambie! You keep right on with it.

Just please don't forget the old (more commonly known) favourites, okay?

From what I've seen of the "obscure stuff" from the old Lutheran hymnals they have a lot of good content even though they may be hard to sing. That's why I think many hymns and hymnal content are better off being read.

lux et lex · Jun 9, 2011

Studeclunker said:
Sounds good to me!

The only complaint I have in our Church is that the Pastor's wife rarely uses songs outside a very limited range. We almost never hear Amazing Grace, How Great Thou Art, Blessed Assurance, All is Well With My Soul, etc... She is determined that we hear only the Rock-Ribbed WELS selections. Whilst that's okay, I'm not familliar with them and I've noticed that the rest of the congregation stumbles and fumbles on them occasionally as well. She and Pastor can come up with some really obscure ones, LOL! All the same, I'd rather that than hearing Calvary Chapel stuff like they did at the LCMS congregation I came from.

It was like going to a particularly vacuous VBS that never seemed to end.

So, go for it, Lambie! You keep right on with it.

Just please don't forget the old (more commonly known) favourites, okay?

I agree with this. I was thinking about it, and the last times I've heard Amazing Grace it's been at funerals I've sang for. How Great Thou Art was my grandpa's very favorite hymn, and has become a favorite of mine too.

porterross · Jun 9, 2011

No surprise there, Lambie. Stick with your instincts and what you know is right. Jesus doesn't want to be anyone's boyfriend.

Studeclunker · Jun 9, 2011

You know Beach, you're spot on! Many of those old hymns are really good messages all by themselves. However, many have a style of music that the average parisioner is no longer familliar with. Hence, if the Choir Director (goes for the Pastor too) are going to use a hymn the congregation aren't familliar with, it would be wise for the choir to be so. Thence, after the first or sometimes the second stanza, the congregation will pick up on the characteristcs of that particular hymnody (sp?), Hymn Melody... the bloody music! Sorry, it's frustrating to be dealing with a difficult melody and a hymn one has likely never heard. There are people who join congregations that haven't been either that type of Lutheran, or even Lutheran at all before. Also, when one changes flavours of Lutheran, everything is different. So, as Paul so aptly puts it, consider the weaker brother please.

goldbeach · Jun 9, 2011

It's interesting through the church year that the selections of hymns that are sung are narrowed down to the ones we like to sing or hear sung (does that kinda remind you of contemporary music?). If you look at any hymnal you will read some very wonderfull hymns that we very rarely ever sing basically because they are hard to sing or we don't like the melody. There are literaly hundcreds of hymns like that in the TLH and LSB. They are the ones that are either the organists, pastor or congregation favorites and they try to fit those few into the liturgical season.

One reason I mention reading them first is to concentrate on the words without having to deal with the melody. Once we know the content the hymn it means so much more because, as one person posted here, "their pastor says the hymns are like small sermons".

Interesting comment about changing the flavor. I can't imagine outsiders coming into a Lutheran service in some churches where they have to pop back and forth between the bulletin, a hymnal supplement and the regular hymnal. I'm Lutheran and I went to a service like that once and I couldn't even follow the liturgy. It's almost like telling outsiders " I know something you don't know, Nah na Nah "

.

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Studeclunker · Jun 9, 2011

goldbeach said:
It's interesting through the church year that the selections of hymns that are sung are narrowed down to the ones we like to sing or hear sung (does that kinda remind you of contemporary music?). If you look at any hymnal you will read some very wonderfull hymns that we very rarely ever sing basically because they are hard to sing or we don't like the melody. There are literaly hundcreds of hymns like that in the TLH and LSB. They are the ones that are either the organists, pastor or congregation favorites and they try to fit those few into the liturgical season.

One reason I mention reading them first is to concentrate on the words without having to deal with the melody. Once we know the content the hymn it means so much more because, as one person posted here, "their pastor says the hymns are like small sermons".

Interesting comment about changing the flavor. I can't imagine outsiders coming into a Lutheran service in some churches where they have to pop back and forth between the bulletin, a hymnal supplement and the regular hymnal. I'm Lutheran and I went to a service like that once and I couldn't even follow the liturgy. It's almost like telling outsiders " I know something you don't know, Nah na Nah "

I like the above post! It's funny though, most of the liturgy is now printed out in the bulletin. Sometimes the hymns are as well. This is done to make the occasional visitor comfortable. Problem is, the expense (to my small mind) is not justified for maybe one or two visitors every other Sunday or so. I was going to go on a long tirade on this, but I'll spare you.

Like I said, I have no problem with the unfamiliar hymns as long as SOMEONE in the congregation can properly sing the melody for me. Is not this what a Choir is for, if nothing else??? In fact, in a case like that, a new, or rediscovered old, hymn is kind of nice.

My friend Paula was a fifth generation missionary. She comes from a Pentecostal background, has worshiped at Messanic and Nazerine Churches, and been looking for a long time for the truth.

It was kind of scary when she started intensely questioning me on my faith and what 'Lutheran' stood for. What Paula had seen representing Lutherans didn't impress her. They looked like 'Sunday only Christians,' to her. People who just parroted words and never understood or cared what was being said (this, by the way, is a common conceptualization of us by most Protestants).

Paula insisted on going with me to Church and it was an amazing revelation what she saw, heard and read. She wanted to know exactly what the Lutheran faith was based on and I suggested she read the Book Of Concord. So she bought one and devoured it. The book arrived in used but pristine condition. It is now in very, very worn condition. Poor thing looks like that chicken on the Post-its commercial! Paula seems to have found what she was searching for all her life. Kind of like I did by coming home to the Lutheran Church.

It's just finding the right people and the right study materials. It's also about the right timing for each individual. The Holy Spirit guides these people into our churches and shows them how we worship. We as fallen sons of Adam and Daughters of Eve, either attract this person, or don't. The Spirit is the one doing the evangelism here. We are just the vessels. Sometimes damaged vessels, but he works with us anyway.

But there I go rambling on again. Sorry about that.

Bryne · Jun 10, 2011

Studeclunker said:
...It's funny though, most of the liturgy is now printed out in the bulletin. Sometimes the hymns are as well. This is done to make the occasional visitor comfortable. Problem is, the expense (to my small mind) is not justified for maybe one or two visitors every other Sunday or so. I was going to go on a long tirade on this, but I'll spare you...

We have the liturgy printed in the bulletin. At one point, we decided not to print it in the bulletin, but have people use the hymnbooks. This was in order to save paper. I have nerve damage in my right hand, and holding the hymnbook for the entire service was very difficult and painful for me. I was soooooooo glad that this only lasted a couple of months. I didn't complain, but I am wondering if it was also difficult for some of our older members because they had arthritis or something and maybe that is why they went back to printing it in the bulletin.

So...the liturgy in the bulletin isn't just for the occasional visitor, but also for the occasional member who can't manage the heavy hymnbook.

goldbeach · Jun 10, 2011

Bryne said:
We have the liturgy printed in the bulletin. At one point, we decided not to print it in the bulletin, but have people use the hymnbooks. This was in order to save paper. I have nerve damage in my right hand, and holding the hymnbook for the entire service was very difficult and painful for me. I was soooooooo glad that this only lasted a couple of months. I didn't complain, but I am wondering if it was also difficult for some of our older members because they had arthritis or something and maybe that is why they went back to printing it in the bulletin.

So...the liturgy in the bulletin isn't just for the occasional visitor, but also for the occasional member who can't manage the heavy hymnbook.

I have a 8 inch titanium rod in my right wrist that causes my muscles to lock painfully and also causes spasms. SO I use my left wrist exclusively to hold the hymnal and it wears out faster. Does it keep me from praising the Lord? Don't really know since I havn't paid that much attention.

.

LutheranChick · Jun 10, 2011

goldbeach said:
It's interesting through the church year that the selections of hymns that are sung are narrowed down to the ones we like to sing or hear sung (does that kinda remind you of contemporary music?). If you look at any hymnal you will read some very wonderfull hymns that we very rarely ever sing basically because they are hard to sing or we don't like the melody. There are literaly hundcreds of hymns like that in the TLH and LSB. They are the ones that are either the organists, pastor or congregation favorites and they try to fit those few into the liturgical season.

One reason I mention reading them first is to concentrate on the words without having to deal with the melody. Once we know the content the hymn it means so much more because, as one person posted here, "their pastor says the hymns are like small sermons".

Interesting comment about changing the flavor. I can't imagine outsiders coming into a Lutheran service in some churches where they have to pop back and forth between the bulletin, a hymnal supplement and the regular hymnal. I'm Lutheran and I went to a service like that once and I couldn't even follow the liturgy. It's almost like telling outsiders " I know something you don't know, Nah na Nah "

.

.

Our pastor has told me that he spends a long time picking out the hymns for our services. I know that he reads the hymns and is very careful to choose the perfect hymns for that particular Sunday, and goes with the sermon theme as well. He doesn't care if its a familiar hymn or not- if the text is appropriate that's what we're singing!

As the organist, I sometimes appreciate this more than other times- but I have complimented him as I have also discovered some beautiful hymns that I had never played before! It has made me go outside my comfort zone to learn these hymns, and that's never a bad thing! I remember one week, ranting a bit to myself because we had multiple 'unfamiliar' hymns that I had to learn, but I felt sheepish as I played them, realizing they were wonderful!

Tangible · Jun 10, 2011

Lamb, I don't know if you are aware of "The Praise Song Cruncher" but it might come in handy for what you are trying to do.

The Praise Song Cruncher « The World Wide Wolfmueller

I applaud you for your high standards. I only wish the folks at my church would be so discerning. Our pastor apparently loves old Baptist hymns, and during Lent and Advent always puts at least one in the order of service. Some of them are not too bad, but others are very subjective, focused on me and what I will do for God and how I feel about God, rather than proclaiming what God has done for us. To be fair, there is a certain amount of subjective content even in the most beloved Lutheran hymns, but the Baptist hymns seem to take it to a whole new level.

As far as more contemporary music is concerned, there are a few newer songs that might be acceptable in their content, but there is also the question of what style of music is in itself appropriate for the Divine Service. A good rule of thumb I've heard is that if you wouldn't want it at your wedding, you shouldn't have it in the Divine Service. (Of course, there are still those who have rather different tastes when it comes to wedding music. )

Our choir seems to love Negro Sprituals. They certainly sing a lot of them. Most are only mildly objectionable, and the style of music is not that bad, but some of them are really beyond the pale as far as the content is concerned.

When it comes to the subjective hymns and much of the new praise music, it always strikes me as very odd that so many of them would contain statements and promises to God that are frankly impossible for us to truthfully say. As an evangelical I often would hesitate to repeat some of the lyrics, knowing that they were not true or at least that I didn't really mean them. I even heard one of my old worship leaders remark once that for many Christians, the greatest amount of lying they do is during the worship service on Sunday morning.

I can't see how standing there en masse, lying to God, can be honoring to him or acceptable worship. We are to worship in spirit and in truth after all.

Studeclunker · Jun 10, 2011

Tangible said:
When it comes to the subjective hymns and much of the new praise music, it always strikes me as very odd that so many of them would contain statements and promises to God that are frankly impossible for us to truthfully say.

Very well said. Hence the reason so much of it is not appropriate to a Lutheran service. Now you understand my main objection to the service at the local Liberal LCMS.

As an evangelical I often would hesitate to repeat some of the lyrics, knowing that they were not true or at least that I didn't really mean them. I even heard one of my old worship leaders remark once that for many Christians, the greatest amount of lying they do is during the worship service on Sunday morning.

I can't see how standing there en masse, lying to God, can be honoring to him or acceptable worship. We are to worship in spirit and in truth after all.

The above is most certainly true! You have a good grasp of why Christ is essential to us. This is what God himself recognized and why he deigned to bend down and help us. No one, no one at all has ever worshiped God truely in spirit and truth. Well... perhaps Enoch, and maybe Abel. However, I can also grasp where you are coming from in the above. Jesus even recognized this issue when he said, "...No one is good, not even one!" What is demanded by most Protestant denominations is impossible for a fallen Son of Adam or Daughter of Eve to perform.

Hence, I agree. If the lyrics of a hymn are not quite Kosher (so to speak) then I too will refuse to sing. Thus, at Trinity (liberal LCMS), I didn't sing much.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 11, 2011

LilLamb219 said:
I am now the choir director for both choirs at my church and recently a friend helped me in inventorying all of the music.

As I go through some of our choir music, I have found that I really have high standards for what I want the choir to sing. Am I being too picky?

I don't want a song that can be sung to just any god.

I don't want a lot of repititious fluff.

If it speaks of the Gospel, I want to know what that Gospel is.

I don't want it all Law, all ME.

I'm finding that a lot of publishers outside of the Lutheran ones are not living up to my standards. Concordia and Augsburg pretty much get it right.

God bless you!

I'm a member of the LCC East District worship committee, and all I can add is that I (we) wish all of our Church Musicians could be as steadfastly committed to God's word as you are!

goldbeach · Jun 11, 2011

MarkRohfrietsch said:
God bless you!

I'm a member of the LCC East District worship committee, and all I can add is that I (we) wish all of our Church Musicians could be as steadfastly committed to God's word as you are!

I agree Mark. Some of us weren't as conscientious as we should be. When I was a lot younger and had to do an early liturgical sevice I thought I would wake up the poeple with a rousing prelude. I had planed to play "inna garda a edda" by Iron Butterfly as a prelude but at the last minute decided to play Trumpet Volunter, which was just as rousing, but not as sacreligious.

LilLamb219 · Jun 11, 2011

Were you REALLY going to play that????

Thanks for all the responses, everyone

I've been e-mailing my pastor about all this too. The choir wanted to sing a piece I'm not thrilled about, but it's not totally bad, and my pastor said to go ahead and let them sing it, but let them know why some parts aren't the greatest. That way they learn

goldbeach · Jun 11, 2011

LilLamb219 said:
Were you REALLY going to play that????

Thanks for all the responses, everyone

I've been e-mailing my pastor about all this too. The choir wanted to sing a piece I'm not thrilled about, but it's not totally bad, and my pastor said to go ahead and let them sing it, but let them know why some parts aren't the greatest. That way they learn

If you play it slower than writen it could be mistaken for a prelude. Only for a few lines through the arpegio and the bridge.

SyntheticPaper · Jun 11, 2011

goldbeach said:
I agree Mark. Some of us weren't as conscientious as we should be. When I was a lot younger and had to do an early liturgical sevice I thought I would wake up the poeple with a rousing prelude. I had planed to play "inna garda a edda" by Iron Butterfly as a prelude but at the last minute decided to play Trumpet Volunter, which was just as rousing, but not as sacreligious.

Hehehehehe ... it would have been a Simpsons episode come to life!

And now, please rise for our opening hymn, In the Garden of Eden, by I. Ron Butterfly.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 12, 2011

All of our organists and choirs contribute so much to our worship, regardless of their ability (or lack thereof); yet how different our services would be without music!

Our Worship Committee administers a bursary fund for organists in our district. While we actively promote it, it is sadly underutilized; fewer children, youth, and young adults in our congregations, fewer still who are studying or even playing keyboard. Of our active organists, few either desire, or have the time to commit to further or advanced study. Even the seminars that we sponsor are poorly attended; with mostly the same faces showing up every time.

It is troubling to me to think about where our congregations will be musically in another generation.

My high standards for music

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