My Enoch Challenge

Jazer · Jun 26, 2011

Nostromo said:
So it's a coincidence that the places named in Genesis are in the Middle East?

The Bible says that Eden was at the head of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. We know that this is the fertile cresent. Science tells us Farming began in the Fertile Crescent. The Bible says that before Adam there "was not a man to till the ground." There is acrually a passage in Eze 31 that talks about the Ceders of Lebanon being more beautiful then any tree in Eden.

9 I made it beautiful
with abundant branches,
the envy of all the trees of Eden
in the garden of God.

So whatever you concept is of a Intelligent Designer. Clearly creation is not the result of a random process as some evolutionists would suggest. God tells us that He knows the end from the beginning.

Jazer · Jun 26, 2011

Prince Lucianus said:
So, it is only a translation issue in one version, all the others have "gate".

Perfect example of why the kjv is the best translation, some people say the only translation. I am related to bloody marys first victom who was a Bible translater. He had 12 kids so I imagine there are quite a few of his decendents still alive today.

AV1611VET · Jun 26, 2011

Nostromo said:
So it's a coincidence that the places named in Genesis are in the Middle East?

No, why?

The Ark came to rest on Mt. Ararat, remember?

Nostromo · Jun 26, 2011

AV1611VET said:
No, why?

The Ark came to rest on Mt. Ararat, remember?

So... Noah built a boat in what would be the NE USA, came to rest in the Middle East and named the geographical features after pre-flood ones in China?

Prince Lucianus · Jun 26, 2011

Jazer said:
Perfect example of why the kjv is the best translation, some people say the only translation. I am related to bloody marys first victom who was a Bible translater. He had 12 kids so I imagine there are quite a few of his decendents still alive today.

I'm not wearing any pants.
Film at eleven.

Lucy

AV1611VET · Jun 26, 2011

Nostromo said:
So... Noah built a boat in what would be the NE USA, came to rest in the Middle East and named the geographical features after pre-flood ones in China?

Do what?

Cabal · Jun 26, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Do what?

I'm curious - given your assertion that the world was Pangaea pre-flood, have you ever actually looked at a map of Pangaea?

Jazer · Jun 26, 2011

AV1611VET said:
The Ark came to rest on Mt. Ararat, remember?

The same Mt. Ararat as the one today? Well then we know where the flood was.

Nostromo · Jun 26, 2011

Jazer said:
The same Mt. Ararat as the one today? Well then we know where the flood was.

That's the thing I'm trying to work out. If I remember correctly, AV thinks that Noah built the ark somewhere in the north-eastern USA, settled on Mt. Ararat after the flood, and then Naoh's family disembarked and started naming rivers and such after places in China, where the Garden of Eden was situated pre-flood.

I think he may have taken up the Poe challenge and decided to test how far we'll believe him before we realise he's joking.

AV1611VET · Jun 26, 2011

Nostromo said:
That's the thing I'm trying to work out.

Looks like you're off to a bad start.

Maybe if you guys could hold the ridicule and laughter when we initially explain something, we wouldn't have to repeat ourselves later.

Nostromo said:
If I remember correctly, AV thinks that Noah built the ark somewhere in the north-eastern USA, settled on Mt. Ararat after the flood, and then Naoh's family disembarked and started naming rivers and such after places in China, where the Garden of Eden was situated pre-flood.

I don't know where you got all this; but for the record, I believe:

Noah lived on that part of Pangaea now known as New Jersey.
The Ark settled on Mt. Ararat.
I don't know where you got this 'naming rivers and such after places in China'. I do believe the Euphrates, mentioned in Genesis, is not the Euphrates of today, which I call the Euphrates II. QV please: 35
Yes, I believe the Garden of Eden was in what is now called China.

Nostromo said:
I think he may have taken up the Poe challenge and decided to test how far we'll believe him before we realise he's joking.

You guys 'realize I'm joking', no matter what I say.

I think that's why I'm considered a troll or something.

Tiberius · Jun 26, 2011

Just as long as AV doesn't start claiming that the Flood is why the rocks of the world radio date to show ages of millions or billions of years...

Nostromo · Jun 27, 2011

AV1611VET said:
I don't know where you got all this; but for the record, I believe:

Noah lived on that part of Pangaea now known as New Jersey.

The Ark settled on Mt. Ararat.

I don't know where you got this 'naming rivers and such after places in China'. I do believe the Euphrates, mentioned in Genesis, is not the Euphrates of today, which I call the Euphrates II. QV please: 35

Yes, I believe the Garden of Eden was in what is now called China.

How is that vastly different from what I said apart from how the places were named? Since Genesis 2:10-14 tells us the names of places and features near the Garden, and none of those places are near China, am I to think that the Tigris, Euphrates, Ethiopia, etc. were named coincidentally and independently of the original places?

"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden" - how does that make any sense if Eden is Pangaea?

AV1611VET · Jun 27, 2011

Nostromo said:
How is that vastly different from what I said apart from how the places were named? Since Genesis 2:10-14 tells us the names of places and features next to Eden, and none of those places are near China, am I to think that the Tigris, Euphrates, Ethiopia, etc. were named coincidentally and independently of the original places?

You think what you want, but keep this in mind: Moses edited the book of Genesis.

Tiberius · Jun 27, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Noah lived on that part of Pangaea now known as New Jersey.

New Jersey?

How in the world did you get that?

Tiberius · Jun 27, 2011

AV1611VET said:
You think what you want, but keep this in mind: Moses edited the book of Genesis.

Edited? GASP! How can a HUMAN act as editor on the BOOK OF GOD??? Why would it even need an editor?

Nostromo · Jun 27, 2011

AV1611VET said:
You think what you want, but keep this in mind: Moses edited the book of Genesis.

What are you suggesting? That he reinterpreted "Guangzhou" as "Ethiopia"?

Tell me how this editing makes a difference to my point.

AV1611VET · Jun 27, 2011

Tiberius said:
New Jersey?

How in the world did you get that?

It was actually an atheist who [inadvertently] pointed this out to me: 58

Tiberius said:
Edited? GASP! How can a HUMAN act as editor on the BOOK OF GOD??? Why would it even need an editor?

Moses made small changes -- called redactions -- to what the original writers wrote; this is why Genesis is referred to as The First Book of Moses.

Let me explain how it works:

When I was much younger, we lived in a house on a dirt road that had only two other houses in the vicinity. My house number was 35. Today, 51 years later, that dirt road is now a paved drive, and there are houses on both sides from one end to the other -- and the house number is 351.

In my diary -- (if I had one) -- I would have written, "We moved to 35 Dirtroad."

Years later, for the sake of this current generation understanding, I could change [redact] it to "351 Dirtroad" for clarity.

AV1611VET · Jun 27, 2011

Nostromo said:
What are you suggesting? That he reinterpreted "Guangzhou" as "Ethiopia"?

Tell me how this editing makes a difference to my point.

Adam wrote that God planted a garden eastward in Eden.

I have had it pointed out to me that Eden could very well be the Biblical name for Pangaea.

Tiberius · Jun 27, 2011

AV1611VET said:
It was actually an atheist who [inadvertently] pointed this out to me: 58

If that's the kind of evidence that convinces you...

Anyway, given that the pine mentioned has a fairly extensive range, how did you narrow it down to New Jersey?

Moses made small changes -- called redactions -- to what the original writers wrote; this is why Genesis is referred to as The First Book of Moses.

Let me explain how it works:

When I was much younger, we lived in a house on a dirt road that had only two other houses in the vicinity. My house number was 35. Today, 51 years later, that dirt road is now a paved drive, and there are houses on both sides from one end to the other -- and the house number is 351.

In my diary -- (if I had one) -- I would have written, "We moved to 35 Dirtroad."

Years later, for the sake of this current generation understanding, I could change [redact] it to "351 Dirtroad" for clarity.

Ah, but by making that adjustment, you are implying that the address was 351 Dirtroad at the time you moved there. Someone reading your diary would be believing the wrong thing, particularly if there was no other evidence to support it.

Perhaps it would be clearer if you said, "We moved to 35 Dirtroad (which is know today as 351 dirtroad)."

That gives more information, doesn't it?

After all, as my example shows, we could be getting things from the Bible that are not as accurate as they could be. Who knows what other inaccuracies are in there that we can't know!

AV1611VET · Jun 27, 2011

Tiberius said:
Who knows what other inaccuracies are in there that we can't know!

Suit yourself -- it's your misunderstanding, not mine.

My Enoch Challenge

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