My Discussion about a Human Service Problem

Hi Valorwoman.
I strongly agree with everything you said and doubt very much if anyone could state you case with equal eloquence and understanding. I cannot think of anything more important in the body of Christ than the issue of social justice. People are hurting due to poverty and expliotation. I cannot understand conservatives moral blind spot on this issue. It seems to me that the contempt for moderates (given now the middle is the new left) is just cover for an innate misanthropy. It puzzles me even further that those spreading the dirty fithy lie of the prosperity gospel are given a free pass by mainstream denominations. Why isn't this self serving garbage being treated with the contempt it deserves?

People employed n South East Asian countries in earn around $4 a day. Those are the lucky ones with jobs. Young girls are forced to prostitute themselves to support their families. To deal with the pain many become addicted to crystal meth.and end up estranged from.families. Being part of an extended family is the only way these people can survive.

Ethicist and poster hate boy for the far right, Peter Singer, claims the wealthy could solve the world's problems if only they were to follow the example of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet in donating a portion of their weath. That will never happen because as Jesus says, the poor will always be among us, because obviously he has seen into the hearts of todays mega rich.

So so sad.

I hope your studies are going well and look forward to seeing more of your writing. Thank you and may God bless you.

rich1540 said:

Hi Valorwoman.
I strongly agree with everything you said and doubt very much if anyone could state you case with equal eloquence and understanding. I cannot think of anything more important in the body of Christ than the issue of social justice. People are hurting due to poverty and expliotation. I cannot understand conservatives moral blind spot on this issue. It seems to me that the contempt for moderates (given now the middle is the new left) is just cover for an innate misanthropy.

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In my experience, "social justice" is usually a feel-good excuse for getting rid of ACTUAL justice.

It puzzles me even further that those spreading the dirty fithy lie of the prosperity gospel are given a free pass by mainstream denominations. Why isn't this self serving garbage being treated with the contempt it deserves?

People employed n South East Asian countries in earn around $4 a day. Those are the lucky ones with jobs. Young girls are forced to prostitute themselves to support their families. To deal with the pain many become addicted to crystal meth.and end up estranged from.families. Being part of an extended family is the only way these people can survive.

Ethicist and poster hate boy for the far right, Peter Singer, claims the wealthy could solve the world's problems if only they were to follow the example of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet in donating a portion of their weath. That will never happen because as Jesus says, the poor will always be among us, because obviously he has seen into the hearts of todays mega rich.

So so sad.

I hope your studies are going well and look forward to seeing more of your writing. Thank you and may God bless you.

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Never heard of Peter Singer.

Do I understand correctly that your solution would be some sort of *imposed* wealth-redistribution, such that no one would ever BECOME as rich as Gates and Buffet in the first place? IOW, implementing the Politics of Envy.

ValorWoman4Jesus said:

I am currently taking classes online with Liberty University. I am working towards getting my MA degree in Human Services Counseling with a concentration in Christian ministry. I am striving to become a counselor, therapist, peacemaker, activist and motivational speaker someday. The instructor told us to discuss a Human Services problem. I wanted to share what I wrote:

I wish to discuss the pressing human service issue of social marginalization, exclusion and discrimination. As a result, there are a lack of opportunities for the poor and the stigmatized middle class to improve their lives. Because of marginalization, which follows the same pattern as the bullying in schools, people will be denied certain career opportunities. There is also so much economic oppression burdening the poor and the middle class. For instance higher prices for things most families need for their well-being such as food will cause an enormous burden. Even people who might have great potential, have a lack of opportunities for certain jobs due to an unjust competitive job market as well as a lack of education opportunities due to the rising cost of tuition. Many families are being priced out of even a modest middle class lifestyle as the ability to pay for things becomes increasingly elusive due to stagnant wages and rampant inflation. There is corporate greed unjustly hindering common people, even those who are educated and brilliant, from increasing their standard of living. What's even worse is that most of the Christian church is doing nothing about it and are in fact in some ways contributing to the problem. They argue that nothing can be done due to the market. I agree that there are market forces outside anyone’s control and so many other factors that come into play when it comes to economic activity. There are still honest integral people of good character though who are being unjustly turned down for jobs or passed over for a promotion. There are also people who are at risk for poverty due to unfair business policies and practices, putting them at a disadvantage. There are middle class people whose way of life is being threatened because they cannot afford to pay their bills due to lack of opportunities for financial increase, thereby not being able to keep up with expenses. These are issues that need to be addressed that the church doesn't seem too interested in addressing. They blame the behavior, character and conduct of the people who are struggling for their plight, so they judge and condemn them looking at them with disgust, accusing them of poor work ethic or poor money management for instance. I agree that each individual needs to do their part to live responsibly; to budget and live within their means and work harder and smarter, but worsening economic conditions are causing resources and opportunities to become scarcer.
[FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]The successful wealthy Christians who believe in the prosperity gospel are accusing their struggling brothers and sisters of being lazy and faulting them for their demise, all the while refusing to help them, with a "You made your bed, you lay in it mentality." The bible speaks of such people in 1 John 3:17[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]"[/FONT][FONT=Arial , sans-serif]But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him ?"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana , sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]I am starting to see sweeping reform, but in the wrong direction. Workplaces are becoming even more brutal in the more profit motivated companies. A business can treat its employees very well and still profit. Sadly businesses are adopting practices that more harmful to employees, even Christian businesses. Organizations have eliminated raises, removed reimbursement for common business expenses, reduced vacation accrual, demoted people, and dropped insurance coverage etc. This is because selfish decisions are being made at the top. The bible speaks clearly about how employees and the poor are to be treated. Barriers to upward mobility and optimal functioning need to be lifted. (Martin, 2012) The bible states in Colossians 4:1 says "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]There is also misleading advertising, tricking people into thinking they're getting something they're not. There are home based business opportunities in which 99% of the people are doomed to fail. The bible talks about using honest weights and scales. The LORD demands accurate scales and balances; he sets the standards for fairness. Proverbs 16:11. Proverbs 14:31 states that "He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." There appears to be hardly any compassion for people who are struggling financially. More and more people who are responsible yet socially marginalized are for one reason or another finding themselves without the means to flourish. These means need to be made available.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]([/FONT][FONT=Bliss-Regular , sans-serif]Rudnick, 2014)[/FONT]
[FONT=Bliss-Regular , sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]I propose that Christians and churches build ministries to give financially strapped and low skilled people more training for the positions that are in demand and/or important while advocating for fairer hiring practices and workplace conditions. Also, there should be ministries with missions and values that create programs that help create meaningful well-paying jobs in the non-profit sector. These would be people who would in turn serve to lift other people out of poverty. I propose more anti-bullying ministries since being bullied in school produces a tendency to set a person up for a lifetime of failure in society. Both cliques and high prices have something in common in that they exclude certain people from being a part of something that could be meaningful, worthwhile, important etc. Acts 10:24-25 states that[/FONT] [FONT=Corbel , sans-serif]“Peter opened his mouth and said: ‘Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.’”[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]Groups in society in general are becoming too much like f[/FONT][FONT='Times New Roman' , serif]raternities or sororities as well as high school cliques due to divisive attitudes among popular Americans not unlike the days of segregation.[/FONT][FONT='Times New Roman' , serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]Churches should also be having demonstrations against the government and greedy businesses for unfair laws and policies that oppress the poor. Isaiah 10:1 has a warning for our corrupt government and businesses: "Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees "The bible says in [FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]Psalm 82:3 to "[/FONT]Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." It does not appear the church is really doing anything about this even though the bible states it plainly. Churches instead are preaching so called moral doctrine to these people about what they should do to receive prosperity. James 2:16 says "If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?" Building God’s kingdom includes reaching out to give a fellow brother or sister in need a hand up.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]Martin, M. (2012). Philosophical and religious influences on social welfare policy in the United States: the ongoing effect of Reformed theology and social Darwism on attitudes toward the poor and social welfare policy and practice. Journal of Social Work, 12(1), 51-64. Doi:10.1177/1468017310380088 as cited in textbook[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]Rudnick, A. (2014).[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]Perspectives of social justice among people[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana , sans-serif]living with mental illness and poverty: a qualitative study[/FONT] [FONT='Times New Roman' , serif]Journal of Poverty and Social Justice, 22,[/FONT] [FONT='Times New Roman' , serif]147-157.[/FONT]
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Your comments about this are welcome.

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Rather a weak treatise IMO, filled with popular myths and lacking real solutions.

Instead of taking on the world in a paragraph, I'd think this paper would do better to direct its energy towards helping the people in the way that a counselor has to do with his clients. When you're a counselor, I assume that you are going to speak on a personal level rather than regale them with vague economic and political theories concerning a redistribution of the nation's wealth.

In addition, I think that this paper takes on too many challenges at once. The instructor reportedly asked for a Human Service problem to be addressed, but you take on a number of different problems, adversaries, and possible solutions, doing so in only a few lines!

NorrinRadd said:

In my experience, "social justice" is usually a feel-good excuse for getting rid of ACTUAL justice.




Never heard of Peter Singer.

Do I understand correctly that your solution would be some sort of *imposed* wealth-redistribution, such that no one would ever BECOME as rich as Gates and Buffet in the first place? IOW, implementing the Politics of Envy.

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Peter Singer is principal ethicist at Princeton University.

Who said anything about a forced Redistribution? As i said, the super rich will never open their hearts because as Jesus said," The poor will always be with us."

It would be only a portion of the mega riches wealth. They would still be very very rich.

This is the "Bridge Builders--Moderate Christians" forum. There's no place for the kind of language and sentiments we see in the message below, even if it were doing the writer of the OP any good with the paper she's writing.

rich1540 said:

Gee. I'm really sorry you feel that way. I hope you feel better soon.

Peter Singer is principal ethicist at Princeton University.

Who said anything about a forced Redistribution? As i said, the super rich will never open their selfish hearts because as Jesus said," The poor will always be with us."

It would be only a portion of the mega riches wealth. They would still be stinking fithy rich.

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Albion said:

Rather a weak treatise IMO, filled with popular myths and lacking real solutions.

Instead of taking on the world in a paragraph, I'd think this paper would do better to direct its energy towards helping the people in the way that a counselor has to do with his clients. When you're a counselor, I assume that you are going to speak on a personal level rather than regale them with vague economic and political theories concerning a redistribution of the nation's wealth.

In addition, I think that this paper takes on too many challenges at once. The instructor reportedly asked for a Human Service problem to be addressed, but you address a number of different ones in only a few lines.

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With all due respect Albion, maybe you could address her argument in the context of the Biblical passages she quoted, rather than dismissing it outright.

Why is the augument weak? Which popular myths? What are the solutions?

I'd be quite happy to debate you.

rich1540 said:

With all due respect Albion, maybe you could address her argument in the context of the Biblical passages she quoted, rather than dismissing it outright.

Why is the augument weak? Which popular myths? What are the solutions?

I'd be quite happy to debate you.

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My friend, hijacking this thread is nothing that I want to participate in. What's more, I am not going to write her paper for her (as you are in effect asking me to do) nor did she ask for that.

I might suggest that since you are rarin' for a fight, you could take your challenge to the Liberal forum or the American politics forum.

Albion said:

This is the "Bridge Builders--Moderate Christians" forum. There's no place for the kind of language and sentiments we see in the message below, even if it were doing the writer of the OP any good with the paper she's writing.

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I'm sorry Albion.I've had a bit of a rough life. You are probably suffering culture shock. I'll edit the bits of i guess you found offensive. I can't do anything about the overall semtiment though.

Are jingoistic three word slogans from the far right of politics ok with you?

Albion said:

My friend, hijacking this thread is nothing that I want to participate in. What's more, I am not going to write her paper for her (as you are in effect asking me to do) nor did she ask for that.

I might suggest that since you are rarin' for a fight, you could take your challenge to the Liberal forum or the American politics forum.

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No sir. Just a civilised discussion. I ain't itchin for no fight. I'm a peaceful boy. Shall we take our gentlemanly exchange of ideas to the relevant forum together?

Albion said:

This is the "Bridge Builders--Moderate Christians" forum. There's no place for the kind of language and sentiments we see in the message below, even if it were doing the writer of the OP any good with the paper she's writing.

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In fairness, he was responding to my "Politics of Envy" bon mot -- language which I'm not inclined to back away from, regardless of whether it builds bridges or walls.

In regard to the OP, my apologies, I'd like to read and evaluate it, but I think its formatting got a bit wrecked when you pasted it in here, and it's just too challenging for my eyes today.

My apologies to you NorrinRadd. I could have chosen my words far more judiciously without as much rancour. No excuse for my intemperance, but i am really tired after only getting about 12 hours sleep in 4 days. As well i get really frustrated typing on this Andoid phone that i bought to steal copyrighted media files. Sorry Rupert. The cheque is in the mail.

Perhaps it is in the format of a "Problem-Solution" report. It might then have five paragraphs: Introduction; Description of Problem; Description of Solution; Recommendations; and, Conclusion. Human services would be integrated into the solution and recommendations. You might also address the issue of when does a personal problem become a social issue. But I am sure you shall get more useful feedback from your professor.

Or, you could focus on the problem and maybe do a Cause-and-effect(s) report. There are many possibilities. A summary could be sufficient too.

NorrinRadd said:

In fairness, he was responding to my "Politics of Envy" bon mot -- language which I'm not inclined to back away from, regardless of whether it builds bridges or walls.

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And I apologize if I appeared to be the self-appointed policeman of something or other. But I am aware that this is a little-used forum and has an unusual history. When the Liberal forum and the Conservative Christians were set up, there was a suggestion that there be one also for people who would just talk issues without the usual animosity, people who would get along. It seems simplistic now, and most people don't even know what "moderate" is supposed to mean, but still that suggestion was accepted so that, if there's any place where the discussion is supposed to be calm and without rancor, this is supposed to be it.

I came across an old book at Internet Archive by John Free (1760 or thereabouts) entitled "A Controversy with the People Called Methodists, Concerning the True Nature of the Christian Religion" which suggests that capital punishment for atheists is okay and that people who believe in salvation by faith alone and do not teach obedience in works of faith may be in the same camp as the atheists. Was this by an Anglican? Moderation has come a long way. I only read the first article in the book though and do not know what else was in the book. We all may hold strong beliefs and be uncomfortable with those who hold different beliefs. I am okay with John Stuart Mill's "On Liberty" (1859) as a guide for free speech at a computer forum but I may draw the line at some forms of social experiments he might have promoted. On that note: "Mr. / Ms. Speaker: 'Would I be out of order if I said that ...'" What is acceptable in Parliament may well not be acceptable in a Christian forum. Oh, and I recently purchased "The Bible Speaks Today" series of NT commentaries. John Stott's material on guarding the Gospel in 2 Timothy is really cool.

To the OP: Thank you for sharing your paper, but I disagree with your whole premise.

The root problem IMO is not due to a lack of jobs. The root problem I see is the spiraling increase in selfishness and greed for trinkets.

Since there are so many people working so hard to obtain more money so they can spend to satisfy their greed, this drives ALL prices up. So, even the few who are not interested in materialism and greed are forced to work harder and harder just to stay even and to get by.

With the mass of people progressively working harder and harder, the net result is that jobs for the lower skilled are getting harder to come by, prices spiral upwards, and stress, misery, drug/alcohol abuse, and greed increase all around - not to mention the increase in both husbands and wives having to work, sometimes multiple jobs at once (which can lead to broken households, etc.)

In medieval times, "most people did not work very long hours at all. The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed. Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure." (source). They had nothing much more to work for except food, drink, clothing, and shelter. Now, there are so many people working so hard to spend on their luxurious trinkets that our ancestors were blessed to never have known (iPhones, iTablets, big screen TVs, sports cars, massive wardrobes, 30-year mortgaged mansions, etc.), that this economic activity drags the prices of basic neccessities upwards as a consequence. Where does that leave the non-materialistic, minimalist individuals who have little or no desire for these trinkets in life? They still need to work harder and harder, because the cost and price of those basic necessities they can't avoid spending for continue to rise due to the actions of the mass of increasingly selfish and bored individuals.

All because of selfishness and greed for trinkets, NOT because of a lack of jobs (although lack of jobs is caused by selfishness and greed). The individual should not have to work harder and smarter (harder and smarter than who? Other people? What if everyone tries to work harder and smarter?) No ... most individuals are working too hard and too "smart" already. Instead, the masses need to wake up and live far under their means, share their excess, live wiser, and see beyond their own "gimme-gimme" hands. If the masses started to embrace love, peace, simplicity/minimalism, and generosity as the highest ideals instead of greed, selfishness, materialism, and covetousness, society as a whole would need to work less and less (don't need all those trinkets, after all), prices would start to go down, and many of the problems we have today would melt away automatically as a consequence.

The real "human service problem" is not all about figuring out how everyone can have access to more jobs to move upwards to find momentary pleasure in more things (an economic issue) ... it's all about figuring out how to awaken and motivate everyone to move downwards to find lasting happiness with less (a heart issue).