Mutability of Sexual Orientation According to Kinsey

MercyBurst · Oct 20, 2007

I thought it quite interesting that Alfred Kinsey, the originator of modern "sexual orientation" theories, believed something quite different from the political position taken by the APA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports#Sexual_orientation

Probably the most widely cited part of the Kinsey Reports regard the prevalence of different sexual orientations — especially to support a claim that 10% of the population is gay. In fact, the findings are not so straightforward, and

Kinsey himself avoided and disapproved of using terms like homosexual or heterosexual to describe individuals, asserting that sexuality is prone to change over time, and that sexual behavior can be understood both as physical contact as well as purely psychological phenomena (desire, sexual attraction, fantasy).

Instead of three categories (heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual), an eight-category system was used. The Kinsey scale ranked sexual behavior from 0 to 6, with 0 being completely heterosexual and 6 completely homosexual. A 1 was considered predominantly heterosexual and only incidentally homosexual, a 2 mostly heterosexual and more than incidentally homosexual, a 3 equally homosexual and heterosexual, and so on.

An additional category X was created for those who experienced no sexual desire.

There you have it. Sexuality is prone to change. Sexuality is a person's response to external stimulus. It can change and it does change.

We knew it all along.

MercyBurst · Oct 20, 2007

Should this thread have been titled "the myth of homosexuality" like it doesn't really exist?

"Homosexual" is a concept from the late 1800s and it appears to be out of date:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual#Etymology_and_usage

The first known appearance of homosexual in print is found in an 1869 German pamphlet by the Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny, published anonymously.[8] The prevalence of the concept owes much to the work of the German psychiatrist Richard Freiherr von Krafft-Ebing and his 1886 work Psychopathia Sexualis.[9] As such, the current use of the term has its roots in the broader 19th century tradition of personality taxonomy. These continue to influence the development of the modern concept of sexual orientation, gaining associations with romantic love and identity in addition to its original, exclusively sexual meaning.

TheFathersDaughter · Oct 20, 2007

That's how I believe. Heterosexual and homosexual develop, but that means you aren't born with either.

Would you agree you aren't born with a sexual orientation therefore you can't assert that homosexuality isn't normal based on whether or not you're born with it?

MercyBurst · Oct 21, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
That's how I believe. Heterosexual and homosexual develop, but that means you aren't born with either.

Would you agree you aren't born with a sexual orientation therefore you can't assert that homosexuality isn't normal based on whether or not you're born with it?

Actually I agree with you quite much. I think it is a learned response. I don't think a gay person conciously makes a choice to be gay.

There are theories that the pre-natal environment (along with genetics) could be involved. They are used to explain why identical twins exist with one gay and the other straight, but that is not really the point of the OP.

Another point at this juncture regards the fetishes, where inannimate objects can be a physical stimulus that causes a sexual response.

There is absolutely no way a person could be born with a fetish for an inanimate object.

Fetishes show that sexuality has a learning component involved in the development.

davedjy · Oct 21, 2007

MercyBurst said:
I thought it quite interesting that Alfred Kinsey, the originator of modern "sexual orientation" theories, believed something quite different from the political position taken by the APA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports#Sexual_orientation

There you have it. Sexuality is prone to change. Sexuality is a person's response to external stimulus. It can change and it does change.

We knew it all along.

This does not prove that one's sexuality WILL change or that you can somehow force it to change. Again, as you even stated, it is a "theory" and nothing more. We know for factual evidence that reparative therapy/ ex-gay programs do not work, AND are dangerous. Those are the only things that are out there to change a sexual orientation.

ALiberalTeen · Oct 21, 2007

MercyBurst said:
I thought it quite interesting that Alfred Kinsey, the originator of modern "sexual orientation" theories, believed something quite different from the political position taken by the APA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports#Sexual_orientation

There you have it. Sexuality is prone to change. Sexuality is a person's response to external stimulus. It can change and it does change.

We knew it all along.

I hope it can change, but I have my doubts.

MercyBurst · Oct 21, 2007

davedjy said:
This does not prove that one's sexuality WILL change or that you can somehow force it to change. Again, as you even stated, it is a "theory" and nothing more. We know for factual evidence that reparative therapy/ ex-gay programs do not work, AND are dangerous. Those are the only things that are out there to change a sexual orientation.

The point is that Alfred Kinsey, the father of modern sexual orientation theories disagrees with you categorically regarding the immutability of sexual orientation.

Neither do I hear any professional psychiatrists that share your view regarding immutability. Sexual orientation is not an unchanging god.

Your view on human sexuality is more than 100 years out of date. The Kinsey scale has replaced it.

MrPirate · Oct 21, 2007

And the evidence that anyone has ever changed form homosexual (Kinsey scale 6) to heterosexual (Kinsey scale 0): Zero

davedjy · Oct 21, 2007

MercyBurst said:
The point is that Alfred Kinsey, the father of modern sexual orientation theories disagrees with you categorically regarding the immutability of sexual orientation.

Neither do I hear any professional psychiatrists that share your view regarding immutability. Sexual orientation is not an unchanging god.

Your view on human sexuality is more than 100 years out of date. The Kinsey scale has replaced it.

Kinsey does not replace all the major health foundations that say a person's sexual orientation is not changeable, and is for the most part, fixed.

Even by Kinsey, he has not said that every person's sexual orientation is going to change drastically over time. I don't see any evidence that shows even by his standpoint that every person's orientation will change, either.

Theories don't take place of evidence of change, which doesn't exist.

BAFRIEND · Oct 21, 2007

ranked sexual behavior from 0 to 6, with 0 being completely heterosexual and 6 completely homosexual.

I have been a zero my whole life.

MercyBurst · Oct 21, 2007

MrPirate said:
And the evidence that anyone has ever changed form homosexual (Kinsey scale 6) to heterosexual (Kinsey scale 0): Zero

Most people aren't a zero or a six. Surprise!!!!!

I read in some publications that only about 10% of the group that calls themselves homosexual scores a six on the Kinsey scale.

Since learning is involved, according to Kinsey, then the possibilities for mutability are self-explanatory.

MrPirate · Oct 21, 2007

MercyBurst said:
Most people aren't a zero or a six. Surprise!!!!!

BAFRIEND is

Still the ends of the spectrum are homosexual and heterosexual

And the evidence that anyone has changed (as you like to claim) form homosexual (Kinsey scale 6) to heterosexual (Kinsey scale )) remains zero

MercyBurst · Oct 21, 2007

MrPirate said:
BAFRIEND is

Still the ends of the spectrum are homosexual and heterosexual

And the evidence that anyone has changed (as you like to claim) form homosexual (Kinsey scale 6) to heterosexual (Kinsey scale )) remains zero

He thinks he is, but he has not undergone the testing procedure to our knowledge Who knows what he really is? The testing has gotten more sophisticated to measure physical arousal with various male and female erotica.

The visual is the stimulus and you can probably guess what the response is. It is measured with various transducers.

By the way, since you have a child, and I assume it came from an opposite sex relation, then there is a point in your life when you were not a six on the Kinsey scale.

MrPirate · Oct 21, 2007

MercyBurst said:
He thinks he is, but he has not undergone the testing procedure to our knowledge Who knows what he really is? The testing has gotten more sophisticated to measure physical arousal with various male and female erotica.

The visual is the stimulus and you can probably guess what the response is. It is measured with various transducers.

so.now you are claiming that BAFRIEND is not a heterosexual?

Are you saying hes really a lesbian but just in A LOT of denial?

[quote
By the way, since you have a child, and I assume it came from an opposite sex relation, [/quote]
no hes the result of a teleporter accident Scotty is still apologizing

then there is a point in your life when you were not a six on the Kinsey scale.

I am positive I have never stated what Kinsey scale number I am. Why would you assume I was anything but a 0 on that scale?

MercyBurst · Oct 22, 2007

MrPirate said:
so….now you are claiming that BAFRIEND is not a heterosexual?

Are you saying he’s really a lesbian but just in A LOT of denial?

By the way, since you have a child, and I assume it came from an opposite sex relation,

Click to expand...

…no he’s the result of a teleporter accident… Scotty is still apologizing

I am positive I have never stated what Kinsey scale number I am. Why would you assume I was anything but a 0 on that scale?

I'm claiming that your whole view of human sexuality is a time-warped anachronism.

Read what Kinsey had to say about your myths from the 1800s, ie "heterosexual", "bisexual", and "homosexual" (ref OP). No wonder everyone finds it so confusing when they talk in those terms.

from the OP:

Kinsey himself avoided and disapproved of using terms like homosexual or heterosexual to describe individuals, asserting that sexuality is prone to change over time, and that sexual behavior can be understood both as physical contact as well as purely psychological phenomena (desire, sexual attraction, fantasy).

Apollo Celestio · Oct 22, 2007

Guess I would be "X". XD!

OllieFranz · Oct 22, 2007

MercyBurst said:
I thought it quite interesting that Alfred Kinsey, the originator of modern "sexual orientation" theories, believed something quite different from the political position taken by the APA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports#Sexual_orientation

Probably the most widely cited part of the Kinsey Reports regard the prevalence of different sexual orientations especially to support a claim that 10% of the population is gay. In fact, the findings are not so straightforward, and

Kinsey himself avoided and disapproved of using terms like homosexual or heterosexual to describe individuals, asserting that sexuality is prone to change over time, and that sexual behavior can be understood both as physical contact as well as purely psychological phenomena (desire, sexual attraction, fantasy).

Instead of three categories (heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual), an eight-category system was used. The Kinsey scale ranked sexual behavior from 0 to 6, with 0 being completely heterosexual and 6 completely homosexual. A 1 was considered predominantly heterosexual and only incidentally homosexual, a 2 mostly heterosexual and more than incidentally homosexual, a 3 equally homosexual and heterosexual, and so on.

An additional category X was created for those who experienced no sexual desire.

Click to expand...

There you have it. Sexuality is prone to change. Sexuality is a person's response to external stimulus. It can change and it does change.

We knew it all along.

There is a limited effect in a society that punishes anything other than a 0 on the Kinsey scale. A man or a woman) who is a 3 or less can sometimes find enough satisfaction with a cross-sex partner to forgo looking for a same-sex partner, but there is no evidence that he has changed his orientaion. A 4 and even the occassional 5, may be able to go for sustained periods denying himself, but the effect has never been shown to be permanent, and a 6 is gay and cannot even pretend otherwise.

The adjustment is almost identical to the adjustment that southpaws undergo when society punishes left-handedness. Ambidextrous persons learn to favor their right hand (but they continue to be ambidextrous). Left-handers with a little ambidexterity, can use their right hand for extended periods, before the awkwardness hrows them off-balance, and extremely left-handed people can never adjust.

davedjy · Oct 22, 2007

MercyBurst said:
Most people aren't a zero or a six. Surprise!!!!!

I read in some publications that only about 10% of the group that calls themselves homosexual scores a six on the Kinsey scale.

Since learning is involved, according to Kinsey, then the possibilities for mutability are self-explanatory.

I consider myself to be a "flaming 6". Although, interestingly enough, nobody has ever been able to figure it out, I don't "act gay".

eastcoast_bsc · Oct 22, 2007

davedjy said:
I consider myself to be a "flaming 6". Although, interestingly enough, nobody has ever been able to figure it out, I don't "act gay".

Sureeeee you don't

MercyBurst · Oct 25, 2007

I repeated a post just so everyone could get this.

"Homosexual" is a concept from the late 1800s and it appears to be out of date:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...logy_and_usage

The first known appearance of homosexual in print is found in an 1869 German pamphlet by the Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny, published anonymously.[8]

The prevalence of the concept owes much to the work of the German psychiatrist Richard Freiherr von Krafft-Ebing and his 1886 work Psychopathia Sexualis.[9]

As such, the current use of the term has its roots in the broader 19th century tradition of personality taxonomy. These continue to influence the development of the modern concept of sexual orientation, gaining associations with romantic love and identity in addition to its original, exclusively sexual meaning.

Everyone please consider that the use of the word "homosexual" was developed to describe a pathological condition. Those who use this word to describe themselves are re-inforcing a stigma that was associated with the original word usage.

Also consider that Alfred Kinsey, the father of modern theories on human sexuality, disagreed with the immutability of sexual orientation.

He also disapproved of the words "homosexual", "heterosexual", and "bisexual".

These concepts are 100 years out of date, and they confuse people that try to have a meaningful dialogue regarding human sexuality.

Mutability of Sexual Orientation According to Kinsey

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