• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Mouse Genome Proves Humans Evolved From Mouse!

In an astounding new revelation, scientists released their findings in the study of the mouse genome and confirmed that humans evolved from mice. They have stated that humans are genetically closer to mice than to any other living organism. They fully share 99 % of genes. Out of 30,000 genes in common, only about 300 are unique to either organism. The scientists at the Sanger Institue said, "It might be said that we are essentially mice without tails--but we even have the genes that could make a tail." This groundbreaking information can be found at this website;

www.sanger.ac.uk/Info/Press/2002/021205.shtml

This fantastic information will be a boon to evolutionists, who will now have a viable ancestry to trace us back to. No longer will they have to endure ridicule from scientists who are realists and who always said we couldn't possibly have evolved from a monkey, because now everyone knows that can't possibly be true as science has confirmed that our closest living relative is the mouse. This may initially cause some homology problems for the evolutionists, but the way they make up connections they are sure to find a common ancestor soon.
 
It's not a joke, Ocean, though John has read into the report a conclusion that isn't there. Check out the first article listed atop the science forums, which also deals with this development. It does a good job of explaining the significance of the mouse genome.

It is thought that mice and humans share a common ancestor ~75 million years ago, not that mice are ancestral to humans.
 
Upvote 0

Morat

Untitled One
Jun 6, 2002
2,725
4
50
Visit site
✟27,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Given that the 99% figure only relates to functional genes, and not the overall DNA (notice: mice have 2.5 billion base pairs, while we have 2.9 billion. It might be half that, the footnote of the article was a bit imprecise as to whether they were counting base pairs or not). We'ld be considerably closer to primates, for instance, in both functional genes and non-coding DNA.

If you threw non-coding DNA in there, the number drops to (IIRC) roughly 95% or so. (Comparing all DNA is much easier than comparing just coding DNA).
 
Upvote 0

MSBS

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2002
1,860
103
California
✟18,091.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Actually, Nature has a boat load of stuff about this online--

check out:

http://www.nature.com/nature/mousegenome/


from:
http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v420/n6915/full/420515a_fs.html
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by John MacNeil
They have stated that humans are genetically closer to mice than to any other living organism.

I read the article and I never saw where they made a statement like that. Could you provide us with a reference please?

Or did you just make that up?
 
Upvote 0

Late_Cretaceous

<font color="#880000" ></font&g
Apr 4, 2002
1,965
118
Visit site
✟25,525.00
Faith
Catholic
All orgainisms share a common ancestor. Nothing surprising to see that we share a common ancestor with a mouse 75 MYA. That is NOT the same as saying that we are decended from mice, or that mice are our closest living relatives. If you go back far enough in time, we share common ancestries with sharks, starfish, leeches, fungi and magnolias.

"confirmed that humans evolved from mice"
"science has confirmed that our closest living relative is the mouse"

Those two statements are outright lies. Isn't lying a sin?
 
Upvote 0

chickenman

evil unamerican
May 8, 2002
1,376
7
43
Visit site
✟24,874.00
don't worry john, another creationist made the same mistake on another board

the 98 percent figure for human/chimp homology refers to the homology between the genomes, measured by oligomerization between them - it includes non-coding regions (DNA that doesn't encode for genes)

the 99 percent figure quoted in that report refers to the number of genes which are homologous between humans and mice - it doesn't really give an indication of how homologous the individual genes are to each other

for instance, if you picked one of the homologous genes at random and did a sequence alignment you might find that for that gene the mice/human homology might be around 80 percent, whereas the human/chimp homology might be 90+

basically you're trying to compare the measurements of two different things
 
Upvote 0

MSBS

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2002
1,860
103
California
✟18,091.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally posted by seebs
I would like to see something specifically saying we're more similar to mice than any other organism - not just something commenting on how close we are, because we *know* mammals are a pretty close family.

Check out the Nature articles (free on-line, no reg required) or just look at the quote I posted above-- 78.5 percent sequence similarity of orthologous genes. It's not quite the 98.5 percent we share with chimps. John just had a little comprehension problem with the article. Again.
 
Upvote 0
Now, what in the world is wrong with you evolutionists? In a previous discussion you claimed humans were evolved from apes because the two shared 97 % of genes, and now we have scientific evidence that mice and humans share 99 % of genes. So, isn't it logical, using the same criteria of your previous argument, that humans must have descended from mice? Didn't you doubters read all the article I referrenced to the Sanger Institute? These are the guys who also deciphered the human genome! Are you now saying their work is not valid, even though it is published in the peer reviewed journal, Nature? When they state;

"It might be said that we are essentially mice without tails--but we even have the genes that could make a tail."

--doesn't that clue you in to the similarities between humans and mice? They never said that about the relationship between humans and any other species, not even the apes, even though many genes are shared in common with other species. So where is your faith in science now? Is science only to be used by evolutionists as a source when it fits your illogical "human from an ape" scenario?

And what about this?

-- "The report shows that both species have around 30,000 genes, yet only 300 are unique to either organism --highligting the tremendous value of the mouse as the most important animal model in biomedical research."

They don't say the "most abundant", they say the "most important". It used to be thought that monkeys were the most important because they have physiology similar to our own and it was believed that we descended from apes. But the DNA shows that not to be true. If the DNA shows that we are closer to the mouse than we are even to apes, then why are you evolutionists trying to evade that evidence?

Clearly, we don't have to wait for embarrassing responses from evolutionists who must now be feeling conflicted regarding their belief in the non-viable evolution theory. Humans didn't evolve from mice, and they didn't evolve from apes, either. The fact that genes are shared in common with other animals is evidence that at the beginning stages of life there are specific designs of genes that work together to make life. The differences in species are designated by the inclusion of different clusters of genes into the common denominator gene strings that make life.

Evolutionists always confuse natural selection with evolution theory and it is this confusion that leads them to make such absurd claims for their evolution theory, that and their die-hard resistence to a religious beginning for life systems on this planet. Mice, or any other animal, can't change into an entirely different type of organism, no matter how much time that someone would like to pretend thay had to do so, because different genes are different things that can't arbitrarily change into something entirely different.

Whether the evolutionists can come to grips with the reality of a non-continuity of species organization is immaterial to the reality of science. Their view is of the majority in corporate/science, but the old adage that a billion good minds don't equal a single great mind rings true for all of them. Science will march on, regardless of their posturing, and, historically, it will treat their view as it does all the wacky views that it briefly entertains.

Since the evolutionist view is so patently non-viable, then there must be a scientific explanation for the agglomeration of species on this planet. So far, the Bible is the only source which states that there was a beginning for modern species. The Bible does not state if there were species on this planet at any time before Genesis, so, from the fossil evidence, we have to presume there was. Nor does the Bible state how the organization in Genesis was accomplished, so that is a scientific question that must be left open-ended. After all, if a God created our modern ecosystem, then that God had to come from somewhere and that God had to use some means that can ultimately be explained empirically. Whether or not anyone believes in God is immaterial to the science, but it is essential to the science that all logical avenues of investigation are pursued. This precludes forming an opinion based on emotionalism or prejudice. If evolutionists cannot assimilate that data, then their childish understanding of science is not worthy of discussion.
 
Upvote 0

chickenman

evil unamerican
May 8, 2002
1,376
7
43
Visit site
✟24,874.00
john, actually read the other peoples posts, then you'll see why you're wrong

the 97(its 98) percent figure and the 99 percent figure are measuring two different things

different, get it?

the reason why mice are more "important" for research has nothing to do with your erroneous assertion that we're more similar to mice - its because mice are more amenable to research, they're small and have fast generation times - its a useful model organism
 
Upvote 0

MSBS

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2002
1,860
103
California
✟18,091.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
John, I no longer buy that you are an actual creationist. Your posts contain such examples of poor scholarship, willfull distortion of scientific articles, and bad logic that you can't be for real. If I were to make a guess, I'd say that you are a non-Christian that is trolling in order to make Christians look bad. As such, I'm not going to respond to your trolling any more. I'd advise all others, both Christian and non-Christian, to ignore you from now on.
 
Upvote 0